please helphey guys, i have a 09 fit sport, i often go to cruises and fun runs at night. my headlights are too bright and i often get complaints. i am wondering if the best solution is to rewire the fog lights to a seperate switch?

 

I'm assuming they're HID? Have you tried adjusting the height of your lights? I don't get complaints at all; and it's a bit too dark just running fogs isn't it? Unless theyre HID too haha.

 

Yah, adjust aim

 

everyone alwyas complains that my hids are too bright. i say it jealousy lol

 

If fellow enthusiasts are complaining then so would any other driver. Adjust you light properly as you are most likely blinding everyone.

 

And running just fogs at night without headlights is just asking for a ticket.

 

Well, another thing is... if OP indeed had HIDs, adjusting them won't help if their the crappy/wrong type.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Too many people buy the crappy hi-lo (HID for low beam and halogen for high beam) or single beam setups, neither having the shield to go with it. End result is high beaming everyone. There's no adjusting for that.

If you're gonna go HID, get the "bi-xenon" moving type shield.

 

And do it with a retrofit. No Drop-in bulbs.

~SB

 

drop-ins work just fine with the GE8 headlight housings

All you need to do is aim the housing down a little bit. No extended glare like some halogen housings

Look up some GE8 hid pictures

 

I've seen some in person. Still not even close to a Retrofit.

Plus, you are putting HID's in for better light/visibility but then you move the housing out of optimal range by pointing it down. Essentially you are putting better lamps in and then defeating the purpose. (you do however light up the ground and slides of the road right in front of you ~where you can't even see - or where it doesn't matter~ and reflecting more light back to your eye, in turn limiting your visibility even more.)

Retrofits are MUCH better. and safer too.

~SB

 

I'm not going to argue about drop-in bulbs (aka PnP kits).

I'm just going to say... if you have to move the aim, you've already bought the wrong type (or rather crappy shield type).

There are PnP kits with better cutoffs/shielding that don't require aiming down.

ps. "you" not specifically you.

 

Is the shielding right on the bulb? Because if you have to install a shield over top of the bulb wouldn't you have to open up the headlights to fit it in? If that were the case it wouldn't exactly be "PnP".

In anycase, having a shield over top of the bulb in a reflective housing designed for a halogen bulb might get rid of that glare, but it wouldn't make the light output to the ground in front of you any better.

 

The bi-xenon kits that have shielding fit through the opening as is. The capsule is tiny, about as small as H1 bulbs (or generally the size of a pinky finger). The shield is then, just about the size of an H4 bulb.

The shield doesn't go over the top. The "double" shield is on the bottom. There is a small movable shield and a larger shield that doesn't move.

In low beam mode, the smaller shield lines up with the opening of the bigger shield to prevent most of the light shining down... that's the part that generates "high beam."

In high beam mode, the capsule and the small shield move so that light shines through the opening. The movement also mimics the position of the filament in an H4 bulb.

Oh, but it does allow for better light output to the ground, for one simple reason... it allows you to properly aim it.

When properly aimed (approximately 1" drop over a distance of 25' for the cutoff), you get maximum reaching light. The area at the cutoff should be the brightest, as that's where the focus of reflectors and projectors are (so it can go as far as possible). Aim too low, and while the ground may be brighter, you aren't lighting up as far forward. Aim too high, and you lose the ability to tell how far it is, since it stopped lighting up the ground but still lights up above ground. And most people use the ground for reference to measure distance.

 

Pretty small opening to fit that Shield and whatever is actuating it through but ill take your word for it.

Regardless, What I'm trying to say is that if both non-shielded and shielded versions were aimed the same way, the light that actually hits the ground is no better with the shield, since all it's doing is blocking glare in "low beam" mode.

And you'd still be using a reflector that is designed for outputting halogen light, which disperses differently than light from a xenon bulb. You're just not going to get good light output even if you've solved the glare problem because the light is not being focused properly. We know this is the case because that's why you'd need to add a shield to begin with, where before you didn't need one. And yes, I know that projectors also use shields, but that is irrelevant because those have been designed to reflect xenon light(except for halogen projectors obviously). In the case of xenon projectors, the majority of light is focused "under" the cutoff shield, putting as much light on the ground as possible. With xenon bulbs in a halogen reflector the light just spreads all over the place, so that even with a shield it's still not going to give optimal light output to the ground.

Yes I know how headlight aiming works, thanks for assuming I didn't know that .

 

A shielded and non-shielded wouldn't be aimed the same way in the first place... unless the guy installing the non-shielded version doesn't care that he's blinding everyone on the road (or more likely, doesn't want to get pulled over for seeming to high beam everyone).

I'm curious... where are you getting your information from? I hope, not Daniel Stern.

You claim it doesn't provide "optimal" output to the ground... based on what? The claim that a reflector does something different depending on... the source?

Are you sure the source matters? A halogen bulb, using what basically a high resistance wire to emit light is different from a xenon gas emitting light? They are both a material excited until they give off electrons and at the same time, visible electromagnetic waves... we call light.

Now tell me, does a higher spectrum of light reflect at a different angle than a lower spectrum of light?

So, what makes you think that there's any "more" scattering from a HID capsule, than halogen bulb?

Daniel Stern attempted to make claim that: "oh, the length and position of the filament wire and how it heats up to produce light is completely different from the arc of electricity in a HID capsule." Yes, the positioning is different. But if you consider the fact that both the halogen reflector and HID projector are design to spread out the light as much as possible, you'd realize... it's a moot point. You need a significant shift from center to make the output shifted enough to be noticeable... more than the difference between halogen and HID.

The so-called scattering people complain about, is simply the source being a higher intensity. The truth is, everyone sees glare coming off halogen bulbs, but they pass it off because they're used to it. If you look back at NTHSA's records of complaints... you'd see the same complaints about glare from HIDs, were already made against halogen when it was first introduced. If you were to crank up the brightness of a halogen bulb to HID levels, it would look exactly the same as having a HID capsule there in place of the halogen bulb.

The ground output falls under the same reason. It might not look as "smooth" as the output from a HID projector, but it's no different from halogen in coverage... and it's definitely brighter than the halogen (within a range of the "color temperature"). Its all the same scattering/spread as if from a halogen bulb, only more intense.

Now, if you put something like a hi-lo kit (with HID for low and halogen for high), THEN you will definitely get a messed up output. That's because most of those are made with both light sources out of position.

If you ever took a basic survey of all the cars you come across with PnP kits, or rather all HID lights (only question being, what type and how it affects you)... you see a grouping of type vs how it affects you. You'd also find that there will be PnP kits that affect you no differently than OE HIDs.

As for me telling you something you already know... what then, is you're qualification of optimal light to ground output? Because if you're saying a properly set HID is not producing optimal light output in a reflector (optimal, being actual usable light, not "maximized for HID"), then that means, no halogen is either.

 

I can see this is getting longer and longer, so I'll try and shorten up my reply a little.

I hate to say it, but that's exactly the case.
Most people that drop in PNP kits aren't even thinking about the other people on the road, nor are they even aware of how much glare it produces. They just drop in the HIDs to look "cool", I'm sure you know a bunch of guys like this. Yes you can "afford" to aim the headlights higher with the shield in to get more distance, but you're just spreading unfocused light over a larger area and basically
watering it down even more.

I do my share of reading around on related forums to try and get a good understanding of how these things work. The overwhelming consensus is that hids in a halogen housing is a bad idea to put it bluntly. I have not heard of Daniel stern. I welcome any readings that you think may be useful for me.

I'll be clear, when I say optimal I mean getting as much of the light from the source to where you want/need it as possible. A reflector that is designed for a difference type of light source will not properly focus/direct the light from an HID bulb. Maybe the stock halogens don't do the best job of this either, but that's why we upgrade with retrofits to begin with...

I am sure that the source matters, especially when they are so different. When the filament is lit up, the top and bottom portions are much dimmer than the center portion of the bulb. Therefore you have an uneven distribution of light leaving the bulb. On an xenon bulb, the light is almost equally intense throughout the entire bulb, not to mention that the bulb is typically longer than the halogen bulb and the light is far more intense. When we're talking about headlights and light output, even a couple millimeters difference in the positioning of the light can make a huge difference in output. You already know this though because that's how the stock dual filament bulb is able to get high beam and lo beam - from a slight change in the positioning of the light source.

I wouldn't argue that there is also glare coming off the halogen bulbs. The difference is obviously with the intensity of this versus the xenon bulbs. (The glare is "bearable" from regular halogen headlight). When there is a higher intensity bulb that has a physically larger source of light(even light dispersal vs only lit in the center), there's just going to be a lot more glare to the point of blinding on coming traffic. Even with the shield, all that extra light coming out of the xenon bulb is still not being focused properly. You have light reflecting in places it was not intended to because of the larger, more intense light source. Though it may be brighter than a stock halogen bulb, what light ends up actually hitting the ground will be far less than would be with a reflector or projector that was actually designed for HID bulbs. That's why the light from an hid projector looks "smoother" - its more filled out cause there's more light hitting the ground.

The rest of what you said seems to build off your assertion that both light sources basically work the same other than Intensity. So hopefully I've addressed that for you. I think our disagreement boils down to that one point.

I'm glad we can at least agree on the hi/lo kits being crap.

 

I'm going to leave it at this... how ever long it is.

No, I don't know anyone else that does HID. Most of the people I know, don't give a rats ass about cars beyond it taking them from A to B.

The "entire" bulb of a HID capsule is actually about the same size as the length of filament in a halogen bulb. That's the only part that has the gas. The rest of it is solid glass with a conducting wire inside. And the difference between the two is less than the position of the low vs high filament.

The only reason there's a change in the light source inside a h4 bulb, is because there's no cheaper way to block and then unblock a light source. The high beam only "moves" to the other filament, because it's not being blocked by a cup inside the bulb. It has nothing to do with hitting the reflector at a different angle or whatever because of the new position.

If you were to go out to your car, put the lights to low beam and mark off the portion of the glass housing that is getting a sort of shadow from the light (bottom half), then mask it off and flip on the high beam... you'd be hard pressed to see the difference in output coverage area. If anything, high beam would be dimmer since that little cup inside acts like a little reflector for low beam also.

You would think that a few millimeters would be a "big" difference in light output... but it isn't. You'd have to go to at least half a centimeter or more off the focal axis to get a noticeable effect. But that's just it, the HID capsule is at best a few millimeters larger, but still on the axis (decent quality one that is undamaged, anyway). Heck, it's still at the same focal point.

I have been thinking all day of things I would recommend for you to read. Physics books on light, electromagnetic waves, reflection, to some degree refraction and absorption (which can be gathered into the optics category). Grab a library card!

And finally, not reading, but physical inspection of various types of halogen bulbs and a comparison against HID capsules.

Because pretty much anything else regarding this topic on the internet is garbage being regurgitated. The more you look, the more you'll see that even though they use different words here and there, they're all saying the same thing... and not a single one is quoting an actual headlight manufacturer or any kind of science research that specializes in light optics. Many of these folks boil back to "Daniel Stern," a self proclaimed expert... that happens to sell filament based lighting equipment (none that he made either).

 

Well let me tell you then, most young people just getting into cars want to do this to look cool. There are lots of folk around here that I personally get the pleasure of being blinded by everyday. That's why I'm so fond of the idea of using HIDs in halogen housings.

I disagree with you on how much a light source needs to move to get a noticeable change in the direction of light. I can wiggle the base of my headlight bulbs slightly and see the beam being affected quite a bit.

Actually I just took out my hid bulbs and did a side by side comparison with the stock bulbs and can see that each filament is only about 0.5 centimeters long. The HID bulb is indeed longer as well, 1 cm longer. Also, the filaments are about 1 cm apart - far enough for even you to accept that their positioning makes a difference, not just the internal shield.

The hid capsule actually has two light hotspots that cannot come on individually like the dual filament bulbs. These two spots are at least 2cm apart in my bulbs(morimoto 5000k) - more than enough to make a difference in the direction of light from each hotspot. Combine that with the fact that each hotspot outputs far more light than a single filament, you've just got way too much light for the halogen housing (projector or reflector) to handle, and in the wrong focal point too. It's not just a simple matter of turning up the intensity of halogen bulb.

Let's step back from the argument of hid vs halogen properties. What is the point of getting HIDs( for people that don't just want to look "cool") in the first place? Better light output of course. Even if what you are claiming is true(that both light sources have the same properties - one just being brighter), the output from stock halogen reflectors is already pretty medicre at best. Having HIDs in there even with the shield just accentuates the mediocrity of the output - you're going to end up with wavy, patchy, and uneven lighting on the ground. You said it yourself, a projector that was designed for HIDs gives a "smooth" output to the ground, aka even and properly distributed lighting, not to mention much wider.

Rather than being patronizing, why not link me to specific articles or books you've read on the subject? It shouldn't be so hard since you clearly know so much about the subject right?


Found this on the NHTSA site: http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/glare.html

Check out 2.3 paragraph 7:

Another disturbing trend in this look-a-like phenomenon is the substitution of OEM filament headlamp bulbs with aftermarket HID conversion bulbs. The desire is to achieve the look and achieve the more robust performance of HIDs. While not designed to be interchangeable, some aftermarket companies are substantially altering the HID bulb bases or providing adapters so that the HID bulbs can be inserted in headlamps designed for filament bulbs. The consequence of making these substitutions is to adversely affect safety. Filament headlamps are optically designed for the volume of light and filament placement and other critical dimensions and performance that OEM filament bulbs have. The HID conversions result in two to three times the volume of light and potentially imprecise arc placement. Such conversions often result in beam patterns that behave nothing like the original filament beam pattern, cannot be reliably aimed, and have many times the permitted glare intensity. In informal conversations with persons who have tested such conversions, the light intensity on one at a point aimed toward oncoming drivers was 22 times the allowable intensity limit. Another lamp was more than 7 times too intense. With poor HID bulb and arc placement, the glare intensity could be significantly worse. Thus, the use of these conversions could be yet another source of the glare problems about which many drivers have complained.

This says the new beam patterns are NOTHING like the original intended pattern. That means even if you put a shield in, the rest of the beam is still crap.