2009 and up front wheel studs broken
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 49
From: Humble, TX
2009 and up front wheel studs broken
I want to know how many of us had this problem.
Because if you have broken one you know you will have to take the whole front hub off and might even need a new bearing if you go to Honda.
Yet the studs breaks way too often. And for a $10 part Honda would suggest you pay $400 for the labor and new bearing. (i am aware of grinding the stud method to replace it, but this is for those don't have the tools to do that)
To me it is obviously a design problem that the stud won't clear the hub when it is being replaced, so I think Honda should help us out a bit.
So if this had happened to you in the past just say "it happened to me"
I want to get an idea of the number. Also it might not be a bad idea to
file a report to government agencies or post a message on Honda's facebook.
Thanks for the help
Because if you have broken one you know you will have to take the whole front hub off and might even need a new bearing if you go to Honda.
Yet the studs breaks way too often. And for a $10 part Honda would suggest you pay $400 for the labor and new bearing. (i am aware of grinding the stud method to replace it, but this is for those don't have the tools to do that)
To me it is obviously a design problem that the stud won't clear the hub when it is being replaced, so I think Honda should help us out a bit.
So if this had happened to you in the past just say "it happened to me"
I want to get an idea of the number. Also it might not be a bad idea to
file a report to government agencies or post a message on Honda's facebook.
Thanks for the help
Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,661
From: Georgia
has not happened to me, but after the install I'm the only one taking wheels off and putting them back. I don't trust myself so I use a torque wrench. 80 lb ft ftw!
70k, rotate around every 7k. you do the math.
70k, rotate around every 7k. you do the math.
100k miles, rotate every 7-10k depending on use. No broken studs, no stripped studs, nothing.
Sounds like you need to find a different tire shop or be more careful when you're torquing the lugs. This is definitely not Honda's problem, this is your problem.
Sounds like you need to find a different tire shop or be more careful when you're torquing the lugs. This is definitely not Honda's problem, this is your problem.
It it the same stud that's breaking or different ones?
If it's different ones one shop probably damaged them in the past and now they're popping up like whack-a-mole.
Tell them not to use air when putting the lugs back on. Some of those monkeys don't even use torque sticks, they just throw the impact on there lol
I can call them monkeys because I used to be one
If it's different ones one shop probably damaged them in the past and now they're popping up like whack-a-mole.
Tell them not to use air when putting the lugs back on. Some of those monkeys don't even use torque sticks, they just throw the impact on there lol
I can call them monkeys because I used to be one
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,371
From: NC USA
I want to know how many of us had this problem.
Because if you have broken one you know you will have to take the whole front hub off and might even need a new bearing if you go to Honda.
Yet the studs breaks way too often. And for a $10 part Honda would suggest you pay $400 for the labor and new bearing. (i am aware of grinding the stud method to replace it, but this is for those don't have the tools to do that)
To me it is obviously a design problem that the stud won't clear the hub when it is being replaced, so I think Honda should help us out a bit.
So if this had happened to you in the past just say "it happened to me"
I want to get an idea of the number. Also it might not be a bad idea to
file a report to government agencies or post a message on Honda's facebook.
Thanks for the help
Because if you have broken one you know you will have to take the whole front hub off and might even need a new bearing if you go to Honda.
Yet the studs breaks way too often. And for a $10 part Honda would suggest you pay $400 for the labor and new bearing. (i am aware of grinding the stud method to replace it, but this is for those don't have the tools to do that)
To me it is obviously a design problem that the stud won't clear the hub when it is being replaced, so I think Honda should help us out a bit.
So if this had happened to you in the past just say "it happened to me"
I want to get an idea of the number. Also it might not be a bad idea to
file a report to government agencies or post a message on Honda's facebook.
Thanks for the help
or they didn't torque the wheel nuts. Its not that you can't break a stud its more likely due to inept mechanicing.
PS torqueing includes the use of high temp lube on the threads and starting nuts by hand.
What is " the stud won't clear the hub" ?
Last edited by mahout; Jul 10, 2014 at 04:02 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 49
From: Humble, TX
It it the same stud that's breaking or different ones?
If it's different ones one shop probably damaged them in the past and now they're popping up like whack-a-mole.
Tell them not to use air when putting the lugs back on. Some of those monkeys don't even use torque sticks, they just throw the impact on there lol
I can call them monkeys because I used to be one
If it's different ones one shop probably damaged them in the past and now they're popping up like whack-a-mole.
Tell them not to use air when putting the lugs back on. Some of those monkeys don't even use torque sticks, they just throw the impact on there lol
I can call them monkeys because I used to be one
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 49
From: Humble, TX
We've had thousands of wheels R&R and the only broken studs are those where someone tried to mount the wrong wheels, say 4x4" BC
or they didn't torque the wheel nuts. Its not that you can't break a stud its more likely due to inept mechanicing.
PS torqueing includes the use of high temp lube on the threads and starting nuts by hand.
What is " the stud won't clear the hub" ?
or they didn't torque the wheel nuts. Its not that you can't break a stud its more likely due to inept mechanicing.
PS torqueing includes the use of high temp lube on the threads and starting nuts by hand.
What is " the stud won't clear the hub" ?
on 09 fit the stud won't come out all the way because the hub get's in the way. so the stud just stuck in the hole. That is why honda had to take the assembly off and => replace the bearing as well => $400 for a $10 part...
Member
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 28
From: Rochester, NY
That sounds like typical mechanic B.S. to me. It's possible that it was necessary, but more than likely a job that didn't need to be done. They may have been making the job cost more to pad their revenue for the day. They already had the bearing right there, and instead of charging just the amount to replace a lug, they got to charge for a bearing replacement.
I avoid getting work done by the dealer whenever possible. It's best to find a scrupulous local mechanic that isn't under pressure by his manager to bring in as much revenue as possible.
I avoid getting work done by the dealer whenever possible. It's best to find a scrupulous local mechanic that isn't under pressure by his manager to bring in as much revenue as possible.
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,295
From: Wandering around.
I don't think any of those shops bother to do it the right way...
on 09 fit the stud won't come out all the way because the hub get's in the way. so the stud just stuck in the hole. That is why honda had to take the assembly off and => replace the bearing as well => $400 for a $10 part...
on 09 fit the stud won't come out all the way because the hub get's in the way. so the stud just stuck in the hole. That is why honda had to take the assembly off and => replace the bearing as well => $400 for a $10 part...
It's not Honda's fault that people are using impact guns and over-torquing it.
I've broken exactly one stud in my 20 years of driving. Though in reality, the Fit has been the only car I routinely rotate tires (last 4 years @6k miles or so per rotation, I have 79k on the odo now). And that broken stud was on my previous car, after my first ever brake pad change.
Going back to impact guns... just within the last 2 months, I've let two people mount wheels on my car. The first was when I had new tires installed. They used an impact gun and over-torqued it so badly, the second guy (whom I had balance my wheels a month later) had a little difficulty removing the nuts with his own impact wrench. And even he over-torqued it when he re-mounted my wheels, just not as badly.
You should buy a torque wrench and do rotations yourself.
Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,661
From: Georgia
Walmart Kennesaw uses hand torque wrenches: I was there Saturday buying oil and heard clicking next to me. The mechanic was re-torquing after pulling a car out (I assume he did the same in the garage).
Discount tire stripped studs on 4 of 4 wheels when I took in a 97 Honda for tires. They claimed it was the car's fault. They use flexible "torque sticks" on impact wrenches.
If the person putting the wheels on doesn't know how to use the tools your car will be damaged.
Who damaged your car?
We're supposed to use torque sticks on impact guns, but one of the other guys took it and I couldn't find it, and our manager was rushing us to get cars out, so I just hit it with the impact instead until the other dude gave it to me and then I used it on the other wheels.
Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,661
From: Georgia
Got a cite for that?
Here's one that says the opposite (there are lots that agree)
Here's one that says the opposite (there are lots that agree)
Torque specifications are typically for clean threads that are free of dirt, grit and foreign materials, including lubricants (heavy-duty trucks are an exception, 30 weight motor oil is specified for hub-pilot style lugs). Lubricants change the properties of a fastener and it will not torque the way it was designed.
Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,661
From: Georgia
Translation:
We're supposed to use torque sticks on impact guns, but one of the other guys took it and I couldn't find it, and our manager was rushing us to get cars out, so I just hit it with the impact instead until the other dude gave it to me and then I used it on the other wheels.
We're supposed to use torque sticks on impact guns, but one of the other guys took it and I couldn't find it, and our manager was rushing us to get cars out, so I just hit it with the impact instead until the other dude gave it to me and then I used it on the other wheels.
Torque sticks are useful, but they are no substitute for final torquing using a calibrated torque wrench.
The proper procedure for using a torque stick begins with hand-tightening the fasteners. Then use the proper torque stick on an impact gun to tighten the wheel until there is tension on the fasteners and the wheel pulls up tight. Lightly go over the fasteners again to tighten them a little more. Then tighten each fastener again until it stops moving. Then drop the vehicle to prevent the wheel from turning and use a torque wrench to do the final torquing.
There are some very important cautions when using torque sticks. First, they should not be used to get to anywhere near final torque. Select a torque stick rated for about 2/3 of the final torque and then finish the last 1/3 of the specified torque with a torque wrench. If the fasteners don’t move with a torque wrench before the click for final torque, there is a problem or the fastener has been over-tightened.
The proper procedure for using a torque stick begins with hand-tightening the fasteners. Then use the proper torque stick on an impact gun to tighten the wheel until there is tension on the fasteners and the wheel pulls up tight. Lightly go over the fasteners again to tighten them a little more. Then tighten each fastener again until it stops moving. Then drop the vehicle to prevent the wheel from turning and use a torque wrench to do the final torquing.
There are some very important cautions when using torque sticks. First, they should not be used to get to anywhere near final torque. Select a torque stick rated for about 2/3 of the final torque and then finish the last 1/3 of the specified torque with a torque wrench. If the fasteners don’t move with a torque wrench before the click for final torque, there is a problem or the fastener has been over-tightened.
Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,119
From: Tuscaloosa
For this very reason I don't take my car to tire shops for mounting and balancing new tires. Last time I replaced tires I removed all four wheels, brought the wheels and new tires to a shop, had them mount new rubber. I took my set of wheels back home and mounted them myself again, because I can trust myself to not over torque lug studs. Its a great length to go through to not spend $400+ on a new stud.
They are fine if you use them as intended. It is when techs see 80 ft/lbs on the spec and grab the 80 stick, hit the lugs and call it a day when it's a problem, like the article says.
I always went 20 ft/lbs low on the stick and used a wrench for final. I was one of the rare ones though I think. I would not use a stick at all on locking lugs even though the key is made to be used with an impact if you wanted... it just screws them up that way though. I do care about other people's cars and stuff lol
I always went 20 ft/lbs low on the stick and used a wrench for final. I was one of the rare ones though I think. I would not use a stick at all on locking lugs even though the key is made to be used with an impact if you wanted... it just screws them up that way though. I do care about other people's cars and stuff lol
Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 824
From: Atlanta, Georgia
happened to me
When I went to a Pep boys 3 years ago...broke 2 studs and was a mess to replace them....
eventually I replaced both wheel bearings and speed sensors when the firestone tasks to replace the bearings broke a sensor....
learned my lesson and now I rotate myself....tell any mechanics not to over tighten and check torque myself afterwards, loosening and re tightening if needed...
eventually I replaced both wheel bearings and speed sensors when the firestone tasks to replace the bearings broke a sensor....
learned my lesson and now I rotate myself....tell any mechanics not to over tighten and check torque myself afterwards, loosening and re tightening if needed...
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 49
From: Humble, TX
When I went to a Pep boys 3 years ago...broke 2 studs and was a mess to replace them....
eventually I replaced both wheel bearings and speed sensors when the firestone tasks to replace the bearings broke a sensor....
learned my lesson and now I rotate myself....tell any mechanics not to over tighten and check torque myself afterwards, loosening and re tightening if needed...
eventually I replaced both wheel bearings and speed sensors when the firestone tasks to replace the bearings broke a sensor....
learned my lesson and now I rotate myself....tell any mechanics not to over tighten and check torque myself afterwards, loosening and re tightening if needed...
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 428
From: Harmaston, TX
Why the worries? Any shop breaking a wheel stud during a tire install or balance/rotation will need to take care of it. Use a reputable shop and they will either have to repair it themselves or send you to another shop on their nickel. Walmart stripped a couple studs on my last car. They gave me a business card of a local repair place and everything was made good without a wait or penny spent by me. My time is too valuable and too much hassle to be taking off wheels myself and carrying them in for every rotation. I do suggest you use the same shop and location everytime if possible though. Otherwise they might be reluctant to accept the blame and point you at the last place you used. Initially Walmart mentioned that to me, that the last person to install the wheels must have cross threaded them. I said fine that would be you and showed them the last service record of rotation which was done at the same location.
_
_
Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,661
From: Georgia
I spent days without a car and many trips to Discount Tire and the sleazy mechanic they sent me to. That mechanic stripped more putting the wheels back on. I wouldn't have known this if I didn't check them when I got it home. Don't wait to find out you have stripped lugs when you need to put on a spare in the middle of traffic.
After that experience it is far far less trouble to rotate myself twice a year and know it's done right. If I didn't have a floor jack, jack stands, cool (very cool) garage you're right: I'd be waiting at NTB for an hour to have them do it and cross my fingers it was done right.
After that experience it is far far less trouble to rotate myself twice a year and know it's done right. If I didn't have a floor jack, jack stands, cool (very cool) garage you're right: I'd be waiting at NTB for an hour to have them do it and cross my fingers it was done right.
