EX CVT transmission failure at 3800 miles - can you say LEMON!!
#21
Just over two weeks ago, you posted the following:
01-24-2015, 03:00 PM: With my car stuck in sand yesterday in the Anza Borrego desert, I thought I'd give Honda Roadside Assistance and their free offer on my 2 month old Fit a try. You get what you pay for. Though the agent was cordial enough on the phone they would only send a tow truck that I had to pay for, being on a residential dirt road and all. I gave up and called AAA, and even though they had to dispatch a truck from fifty miles away, there were no issues and no cost. Honda Roadside Assistance? Never again.
I wonder if getting your car stuck in the sand had something to do with your transmission failure, perhaps when you were rocking to get unstuck. I am not smart enough to know if sand could somehow get into a transmission, but I have personal experience in how getting unstuck can impact your transmission (rocking back and forth).
01-24-2015, 03:00 PM: With my car stuck in sand yesterday in the Anza Borrego desert, I thought I'd give Honda Roadside Assistance and their free offer on my 2 month old Fit a try. You get what you pay for. Though the agent was cordial enough on the phone they would only send a tow truck that I had to pay for, being on a residential dirt road and all. I gave up and called AAA, and even though they had to dispatch a truck from fifty miles away, there were no issues and no cost. Honda Roadside Assistance? Never again.
I wonder if getting your car stuck in the sand had something to do with your transmission failure, perhaps when you were rocking to get unstuck. I am not smart enough to know if sand could somehow get into a transmission, but I have personal experience in how getting unstuck can impact your transmission (rocking back and forth).
Nope, there was no point in rocking it back and forth, the car sits too low to the ground. That did get me thinking though that maybe sand got in fins of a transmission cooler or something to that effect but that didn't turn out to be the case either. Sand wasn't related.
I just got off the phone with the service manager and the tests showed a programming malfunction that caused the 'B' solenoid to stay open, which I suppose caused it to slip and disengage, and get extremely hot.
The fix was to reprogram and recode it under direction from Honda, and change the fluid. They test drove the car for over 100 miles, presumably up and down the grade I was on in order to duplicate things and it's working fine according to them and is ready for pickup.
We'll see.
#22
call the 800 number and put in a complaint. when my transmission gave up in august (car has 200 miles on it and i had it for 36 hours), it took a few days of back and forth, but honda gave me a rental for 2+ weeks while the car was being repaired. rental was from enterprise, not the dealer.
dont give up hope, and BE NICE to the lady on the phone... good luck.
i thought the same thing. took me a 3 months after the repair, but now i am very happy with the car. EVERY car model has a few units that fail. every one. give it a chance after the repair.
dont give up hope, and BE NICE to the lady on the phone... good luck.
i thought the same thing. took me a 3 months after the repair, but now i am very happy with the car. EVERY car model has a few units that fail. every one. give it a chance after the repair.
#26
Sorry to hear of you problems as well.
A programming malfunction? Wonder what they mean by that. What caused this programming malfunction? I was just looking it up online and some info about solenoid 'B' but couldn't find anything on the Jazz forums. Interesting!
Last edited by Myxalplyx; 02-10-2015 at 07:20 AM.
#27
Bernardi Honda does -- there is an Enterprise desk right in the service area. No muss, no fuss.
#28
VERY interesting!
Sorry to hear of you problems as w
ell.
A programming malfunction? Wonder what they mean by that. What caused this programming malfunction? I was just looking it up online and some info about solenoid 'B' but couldn't find anything on the Jazz forums. Interesting!
Sorry to hear of you problems as w
ell.
A programming malfunction? Wonder what they mean by that. What caused this programming malfunction? I was just looking it up online and some info about solenoid 'B' but couldn't find anything on the Jazz forums. Interesting!
Right, it wasn't the solenoid itself. I can't speculate as to what data caused it to stay open.
Interestingly, there was no check engine light till it quit. I'll try and get all the read out data just to make sure.
As spooky as it is to think that you have little to no direct control over a car these days, it's those very computer controlled systems and their ability to adjust and compensate that allows them to last longer.
#29
This possible damage may cause the transmission to fail sooner in its life than normal, but beyond the warranty period. Since Honda isn't replacing the transmission they should make a commitment to the transmission having a normal life, not just to the end of the warranty.
#30
It might be a good idea to talk to Honda corporate and make sure that they acknowledge in writing that the transmission "got extremely hot" due to a warranty issue. This might well have damaged something else in the transmission, such as whatever part was slipping excessively.
This possible damage may cause the transmission to fail sooner in its life than normal, but beyond the warranty period. Since Honda isn't replacing the transmission they should make a commitment to the transmission having a normal life, not just to the end of the warranty.
This possible damage may cause the transmission to fail sooner in its life than normal, but beyond the warranty period. Since Honda isn't replacing the transmission they should make a commitment to the transmission having a normal life, not just to the end of the warranty.
That's a very good idea. It needs to be a matter of record.
It was fortunate that it gave out on an interstate with fairly light traffic and an apron. Many two lane hilly roads I tend to travel when there's free time don't have that luxury.
I was hoping to pick the car up today with a one way rental but El Centro only has Hertz and Enterprise and neither will let anything go from their inventory in the Coachella Valley for at least a week. Too bad, I could have walked to Enterprise at the La Quinta Resort. Dang resort towns, wife and I will have to run down there early tomorrow and Honda's off the hook for paying for a rental car.
#31
Sorry to hear about your transmission problem. I hope it is solved for good now. I bought my wife a brand new civic last year. At first oil change, I noticed it was leaking oil. My wife brought it in for warranty repair and they gave her a rental car before even looking at the car themselves. That is inexcusable that you would have such a severe problem as a transmission failure and they don't give you a rental.
#32
We went back to El Centro and retrieved the car early this morning and in the 100 mile trip back, the transmission seems to be working fine. The only thing I can notice is that in situations like lifting off the accelerator coming from a signal it formerly lifted heavily, almost like it was looking for another rev band to be in. Now it just lifts without any jolting motion. Kind of like backing off line pressure a little as you'd do in tweaking an old Torque-Flight automatic.
Bottom line is that neither the dealership nor Honda can say why it did what it did.
The fix was to read the diagnostic code for the transmission, reset, and reprogram and update the ECM and PCM. They drained and strained the transmission fluid and checked the paint strainer for anything metallic and didn't find anything, then replaced the fluid.
Under Honda's direction, they then ran the car on a test loop several times totaling 110 miles (radio history indicates the driver liked corridos...I kind of like them too) to get a snap shot code, which never returned, so they declared the car good to go.
Honda is aware of this incident and it's the first time they've seen this happen. I'll be making sure legal ducks are in a row on this case.
A side note I learned there this morning is that all Honda CVTs now have torque converters. The gen 3 Fit has since it came out and the rest of the line since late last year.
Bottom line is that neither the dealership nor Honda can say why it did what it did.
The fix was to read the diagnostic code for the transmission, reset, and reprogram and update the ECM and PCM. They drained and strained the transmission fluid and checked the paint strainer for anything metallic and didn't find anything, then replaced the fluid.
Under Honda's direction, they then ran the car on a test loop several times totaling 110 miles (radio history indicates the driver liked corridos...I kind of like them too) to get a snap shot code, which never returned, so they declared the car good to go.
Honda is aware of this incident and it's the first time they've seen this happen. I'll be making sure legal ducks are in a row on this case.
A side note I learned there this morning is that all Honda CVTs now have torque converters. The gen 3 Fit has since it came out and the rest of the line since late last year.
#33
Yes they do, and I think that this is a good thing. Unlike a friction clutch the torque converter does not wear out or change engagement as it wears. Achieving a smooth engagement with automated clutches has always been a tricky thing (cough, Ford, cough) A well-designed lockup torque converter is just as efficient as a friction clutch in all drive regimes except for the initial vehicle motion.
#34
I always wanted to know if the TC in the Fit had a lockup clutch but couldn't find any info at all.
Do you know for sure it is a lockup TC or are you just assuming it is?
Leaving the TC unlocked is unefficient but it would probably mean a lot less strain in the belt of the CVT as it avoids a direct coupling between the engine and the drivetrain, filtering shocks.
It might be a choice between reliability or efficiency...
Last edited by gusvera; 02-12-2015 at 11:01 AM.
#35
I can't find any data for the US model. Apparently Americans aren't smart enough to handle such facts. Honda's specifications for Sri Lanka are more detailed and mention the lock-up feature:
Honda
#36
GeorgeL,
I always wanted to know if the TC in the Fit had a lockup clutch but couldn't find any info at all.
Do you know for sure it is a lockup TC or are you just assuming it is?
Leaving the TC unlocked is unefficient but it would probably mean a lot less strain in the belt of the CVT as it avoids a direct coupling between the engine and the drivetrain, filtering shocks.
It might be a choice between reliability or efficiency...
I always wanted to know if the TC in the Fit had a lockup clutch but couldn't find any info at all.
Do you know for sure it is a lockup TC or are you just assuming it is?
Leaving the TC unlocked is unefficient but it would probably mean a lot less strain in the belt of the CVT as it avoids a direct coupling between the engine and the drivetrain, filtering shocks.
It might be a choice between reliability or efficiency...
Honda Worldwide | Technology Picture Book | CVT
What is the power/torque lost with these CVT transmissions? I am assuming that MT puts all of power/torque to wheels with 0% lost.
Last edited by ritholtz; 02-12-2015 at 12:01 PM.
#37
Considering that the CVT is now beating the manual transmission in fuel economy the relative efficiency of the two transmissions is comparable.
The advantage of the CVT comes from better ratios for economy that aren't practical in the 6 speed because of marketing considerations.
#38
I would be very surprised if any manufacturer is using a non-lock-up torque converter, particularly a manufacturer that is chasing the 40MPG holy grail.
I can't find any data for the US model. Apparently Americans aren't smart enough to handle such facts. Honda's specifications for Sri Lanka are more detailed and mention the lock-up feature:
Honda
I can't find any data for the US model. Apparently Americans aren't smart enough to handle such facts. Honda's specifications for Sri Lanka are more detailed and mention the lock-up feature:
Honda
Seems Americans need info digested like this
Honda Fit (2015)
looots of marketing and some useful data (like info of the 6mt gear ratios)
I also found a 2009 SAE paper regarding a CVT for the second generation FIT, I don't know if it was really used in that generation, but it looks sooo similar to the 'new' CVT.
http://papers.sae.org/2009-01-1541/
You have to pay to download it, but the preview is free and shows all the paper just with a watermark
Last edited by gusvera; 02-12-2015 at 01:41 PM.
#39
40 mpg isn't a holy grail, it's a sad winter baseline. Nothing gives you mileage, but manual transmissions are much more efficient than anything else out there and allow for much higher mpg than anything else can hope for.
If you simply wish for the engineers to build a car that will graciously hand you 40 mpg by slipping belts and pumping fluids all around inside, you're going to have to wait a long time. If you're willing to use actual gears and do it yourself, 40 is just sitting there waiting for you to take it.
If you simply wish for the engineers to build a car that will graciously hand you 40 mpg by slipping belts and pumping fluids all around inside, you're going to have to wait a long time. If you're willing to use actual gears and do it yourself, 40 is just sitting there waiting for you to take it.
#40
Well, it's done it again in local driving. Orange icon is on and the 'D' symbol is replaced by a box with an X in it. I put the car in the garage and called Honda Customer Service and they won't get to it till the next business day. The local dealer's service department says they won't look at it till Saturday.
Meanwhile, unless I just want to take a chance and see if it can get me where I need to go the next several days, I'm stranded.
Meanwhile, unless I just want to take a chance and see if it can get me where I need to go the next several days, I'm stranded.