Dealership recommended injector cleaner due to mileage. Anyone have experience or know of a cleaner that works and doesn't hurt the engine (o2 sensor fouling)? Are all cleaners compatible with DI engines?

Thanks, noob here.

 

dealers recommend many things.. especially if you dont look car savvy.

 

I'm a little unclear.
Is the dealership recommending some type of "professional" fuel injector cleaning?

If your not experiencing any symptoms, rough idle etc...
Then I would be highly skeptical.

BUT..
If they are just recommending you buy and use a over the counter fuel injector additive? Then that's not much of an investment and there are many to choose.

Maybe twice a year, I run a treatment of Techron.

To be honest? I don't know if it helps too much. But even as a placebo? It doesn't cost much and I don't think it hurts.
If that's all they are recommending?
You can probably just go to your local Wally World and just choose one off the shelf.
Techron has a long track record.

 

If you live in an area where you can still get 100% gasoline rather then E-10 (10% ethanol diluted gas) then maybe a bottle of fuel injector cleaner might be in order. If you are required to use E-10 or have been dumb enough to buy "top tier" which requires 10% ethanol then fuel injector cleaner is not needed.

That said, the cost is insignificant. Go buy and bottle at Wally World and throw it in a full tank of gas. If you have no poor running symptoms now, then you will never know if the cleaner did you any good. It definitely will not hurt anything doing it.

 

I use gas from Shell. Dealer recommended it due to mileage, nothing else. Car drives normally, no symptoms. I read that some cleaners can foul up 02 sensors so I figured I'd ask.

I do rev out my car every once in a while to burn off carbon deposits (or thats what I tell myself)

 

I have never hear that. What will foul Oxy sensors is Silicone. That is why I never use lubricants with silicone in them like Sili-kroil or any silicone based sealants around the engine or fuel system. Also check when you buy a tube at the auto parts store or elsewhere to make sure it says "Oxygen sensor safe" on it.

Maybe someone else here knows more about the injector cleaners out there.

I just did a google search and found a few people asking the same question but I found no knowledgeable answers.

Urban Myth???

 

 

I have posted this before with links. So go search for them on this site for more info. The primary requirement to be "Top Tier certified" is your fuel must contain 9% to 11% ethanol, contain no metallic additives (lead), and pay a licensing fee. Guess what. Lead has been illegal in road fuel for a long time and most areas of the country are already selling E-10 either by EPA or state mandate. We still use lead in aviation gasoline.

"Top Tier" is a marketing program for the ethanol industry. If you look at the added detergents, in "Top Tier" fuel it is ethanol and it is a good detergent. Anything used as an additive has to be certified by the EPA with a waiver. Look up on the EPA web site for waivers and see what detergents have been issued waivers. The EPA states that all gasoline sold for on road use MUST BE SUBSTANTIALLY IDENTICAL to what was used when the vehicle was certified. The only currently active waivers listed by the EPA are for ethanol.

None of this applies to California. California has been issued a statewide waiver by the EPA to the California Air Resources Board (CARB). CARB controls all gasoline fuel sold at retail in that state.

As for fuel differences between brands. These days it is almost all the same. As an example in the Chicago area and a few hundred miles around, ALL on-road gasoline sold comes out of 2 refineries. About 70% from Whiting, IN and 30% from a refinery near Joliet, IL. I can remember in the distant past when there were 16 refineries in this same ares. All of the little ones are gone and now consolidated into just these two very large ones. Local deliveries are trucked from these two sites. More distant deliveries are shipped by pipeline to remote terminals and trucked from there. The average small terminal has 5 tanks for all fuels including gasoline and other things like diesel, fuel oil, kerosene, and tans mix stored for later return to the refinery. The number and size of tanks varies by the requirements of the local customers that specific terminal is servicing. Ethanol and aviation gasoline is NEVER transported by pipeline. Aviation Jet fuel is usually transported by pipeline. Ethanol is a very high detergent and can loosen up stuff accumulated in pipe lines, so ethanol is moved by rail and truck. It is stored and mixed at the terminals as required. A single terminal may supply E-0 to marine, farm, and off road applications, and E-0 or E-10 to ten or 15 different retail brand stations out of the same storage tank.

My background is in the petro-chemical industry and I have degrees in this area. I am retired.

 

The manual says to use Top Tier, so I'll continue to be "dumb enough" to spend the extra 20 cents per tank.

 

What I do is more of just a ritual. I don't know how much good it REALLY might be doing. I can say, I've never had a problem with my fuel injectors...or oxygen sensor.

I tend to be be pretty conservative. That is, maybe 2-3 times a year, I'll run a treatment of Techron through my fuel system. I avoid more extreme treatments like "Sea Foam" and I stick to Techron, because it's a long lived name brand produced by a big company.

That is, I avoid the "Fuel Injector Cleaner" available at the local Dollar Store.

The rest of the time, I run usually 87 octane-Top Tier-fuel.

I don't know the mileage you are talking about.
But I suspect the recommendation to try a fuel injector cleaner is just an opinion. Or this mechanics or technicians personal ritual or belief in regards to engine maintenance.
On a high mileage vehicle, For less than $10, I wouldn't stress too much about it.

As long as you aren't expecting any magic beyond $10 disappearing, you are likely to neither be overwhelmed with a sudden improvement or disappointed by anything catastrophic happening.

I mean, if running a fuel injector cleaner through your system is enough to foul your oxygen sensor...it was probably pretty close to being fouled to symptom revelation anyway.

 

 

In the Honda Fit owners' manual it says they "endorse" and "recommend" the use of top tier gas "where available". They do not say that using non-top tier gas will cause damage or that it voids any warranties. The manual for the CR-V says the same thing.

Just another example of a dealership trying to weasel their way out of a warranty repair.

 

To the OP, you're off to a great start by using Shell. It's a good choice. Their 93 V-Power generally resists knock the best of any premium fuel. Most tuners recommend it. Not sure if that same thing filters down to their 87 octane.

I'm with fitchet on the Techron. I also run a couple bottles per year through my cars. Maybe it helps, maybe not, but it has never hurt anything either. I steer clear of the other additives that make all kinds of crazy claims.

 

I've been confused by the top tier recommendation too. I've suggested to my girlfriend that she use it in her new Fit but I can't say that I'm feeling very sure of my advice.

My understanding is that top tier requires a higher level of detergents but I haven't been able to find any info on exactly what the level must be to qualify. I did find this chart that analyzed a few brands - some top tier and some not. It's a very limited list, though, and it's based on a single analysis, so I wonder how consistent the levels are from station to station over time.


Compounding my confusion is the fact that the Fit, like many new cars, uses Direct Injection, which means the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder so it doesn't flow past the intake valve. There has been lots of documentation that confirms that this results in a higher amount of carbon build up on the back side of the valve than previous, non-DI, designs. On older style engines, which have fuel flowing past the valve and then into the cylinder, detergents and ethanol helped to keep that area clean(er).

The higher levels of detergent and the ethanol might still help keep the injectors cleaner and it may help keep the combustion chamber cleaner but the issue with the valves remains. Maybe it's more of a theoretical issue than a real problem. I haven't seen any complaints from owners who had to pull the head and clean or replace valves.

I've run mostly non-top tier gas in my older Civic, which does not have DI. I've seen some posts that say that you don't really need to run top tier all the time. You can just run a few tanks of top tier, or use the injector cleaner, and it will clean things up. Then you can go back to running non-top tier.

Any comments on that?

Pretty much everything around here anymore is E10. I have noticed a few places that have pure gas but it runs about $3.50 to $3.75 per gallon. I also wonder how fresh it is since they can't be selling much of it.

 

my wife runs mid tier gas (watever that means) 87 oct. no issue never cleaned injectors.

 

Around here (north NJ) I buy Top Tier when it is within 2 cents/gallon of the off-brands. (Comes out to around once a month)

I guess that DOES come out to 20c. a tank...



If you sleep better with an additive, then Techron is the way to go IMO.

I'll point out that the directions say to put enough Techron to treat 10 gallons into a low tank, drive to the gas station, then fill. I've heard stories of some clueless folks who put multiple Techron bottles into an almost empty tank and the engine won't run very well!

 

I use top tier gasoline.
But I add this.
In my area, pretty developed surburbs, finding stations that are NOT top tier sellers is actually pretty hard.
My area is dominated by the big brand stations and most of them are by default top tier. I'd have to go out of my way to try to find a Non-Top Tier option.

 

I've used Techron for many years. I pour in a bottle just before each oil change. My thinking is may help & hasn't hurt a thing. Insurance in a bottle.

 

I don't think the issue is with the injectors, but deposit buildup on valves and the combustion chamber.

FWIW I used to think like you. Drove a SRT-4 219K miles running cheap generic 87 octane from the local chain in a car that required 91 octane. No issues. Had a VW CC and ran the same gas in the car and after awhile it threw codes and generally was starting to run poorly. Had to spend like $1K for the dealer to soda blast the combustion chamber, ports and valves because of deposit buildup. Dealer told me to stop being a penny wise/dollar dumb and stop using the cheap gas. Neither car required injector cleaning.

 

I'm not familiar with either of those cars so I'm wondering why the generic fuel worked fine in one and not the other. Do either of them use Direct Injection? As I mentioned earlier, it seems like whatever fuel you use or whether you use injector cleaner or not, there's no way to keep deposits from forming on the back side of the intake valves. It might work on the combustion chambers but if you end up having to pull it apart to clean the valves anyway (or is it necessary to pull it apart??) why would it matter what gas you use?

This is one of the reasons why, if I buy a new Civic in the next year or so, I'll probably go with the 2.0 NA engine since it has the older multi-port fuel injection, not the DI.