Tires for stock-class auto-x...?
#1
11-01-2007, 12:59 PM
Tires for stock-class auto-x...?
Now that I’ve got my Fit, I’m looking at what it’s going to take to play in H Stock SCCA autoX. I’ve run a few times in SM with my old 87 Daytona (engine, wheels, and brake upgrades), and my 69 Valiant is set up to play in SM as well. Although I’m fairly familiar with Solo II in general, the Stock classes were never a possibility for me until now.
My plans at this point are to upgrade tires to something sticky on the stock 55mm (ugh) offset wheels, and eventually upgrade the shocks/struts at some time down the road. My question is this: what’s the consensus on tire sizing for HS autoX use? I know that typically the goal is to squeeze as much tire on to a wheel as you can fit under the car, unless there’s a clear indicator that the extra tire width just doesn’t work. Is that still the case with the Fit? The two basic scenarios I’m looking at are same-size tires front and rear, or wider tires up front and narrower tires in back. Sizes I’m considering are generally 205/50, 215/50, or 225/50.
If someone has already tried a 225/50 on the stock wheels and found no real benefit, I’ll skip that project. I’m almost certain that they won’t fit in back without spacers, and I’m not sure if ¼” will be enough to keep them from rubbing the shocks. I think they’d be OK in front, and that might help minimize understeer if using a 205 in back.
Any sage advice or experiences welcome…
My plans at this point are to upgrade tires to something sticky on the stock 55mm (ugh) offset wheels, and eventually upgrade the shocks/struts at some time down the road. My question is this: what’s the consensus on tire sizing for HS autoX use? I know that typically the goal is to squeeze as much tire on to a wheel as you can fit under the car, unless there’s a clear indicator that the extra tire width just doesn’t work. Is that still the case with the Fit? The two basic scenarios I’m looking at are same-size tires front and rear, or wider tires up front and narrower tires in back. Sizes I’m considering are generally 205/50, 215/50, or 225/50.
If someone has already tried a 225/50 on the stock wheels and found no real benefit, I’ll skip that project. I’m almost certain that they won’t fit in back without spacers, and I’m not sure if ¼” will be enough to keep them from rubbing the shocks. I think they’d be OK in front, and that might help minimize understeer if using a 205 in back.
Any sage advice or experiences welcome…
#2
11-02-2007, 03:05 AM
Now that I’ve got my Fit, I’m looking at what it’s going to take to play in H Stock SCCA autoX. I’ve run a few times in SM with my old 87 Daytona (engine, wheels, and brake upgrades), and my 69 Valiant is set up to play in SM as well. Although I’m fairly familiar with Solo II in general, the Stock classes were never a possibility for me until now.
My plans at this point are to upgrade tires to something sticky on the stock 55mm (ugh) offset wheels, and eventually upgrade the shocks/struts at some time down the road. My question is this: what’s the consensus on tire sizing for HS autoX use? I know that typically the goal is to squeeze as much tire on to a wheel as you can fit under the car, unless there’s a clear indicator that the extra tire width just doesn’t work. Is that still the case with the Fit? The two basic scenarios I’m looking at are same-size tires front and rear, or wider tires up front and narrower tires in back. Sizes I’m considering are generally 205/50, 215/50, or 225/50.
If someone has already tried a 225/50 on the stock wheels and found no real benefit, I’ll skip that project. I’m almost certain that they won’t fit in back without spacers, and I’m not sure if ¼” will be enough to keep them from rubbing the shocks. I think they’d be OK in front, and that might help minimize understeer if using a 205 in back.
Any sage advice or experiences welcome…
My plans at this point are to upgrade tires to something sticky on the stock 55mm (ugh) offset wheels, and eventually upgrade the shocks/struts at some time down the road. My question is this: what’s the consensus on tire sizing for HS autoX use? I know that typically the goal is to squeeze as much tire on to a wheel as you can fit under the car, unless there’s a clear indicator that the extra tire width just doesn’t work. Is that still the case with the Fit? The two basic scenarios I’m looking at are same-size tires front and rear, or wider tires up front and narrower tires in back. Sizes I’m considering are generally 205/50, 215/50, or 225/50.
If someone has already tried a 225/50 on the stock wheels and found no real benefit, I’ll skip that project. I’m almost certain that they won’t fit in back without spacers, and I’m not sure if ¼” will be enough to keep them from rubbing the shocks. I think they’d be OK in front, and that might help minimize understeer if using a 205 in back.
Any sage advice or experiences welcome…
#3
11-02-2007, 10:49 AM
Is it rubbing in front, back, or both?
I guess that's good to know, if a little sad. Sure would be nice to stuff a ton of tire under the Fit, but there's not much real estate to work with by it's nature. 45mm offset is too much to work in Stock, but obviously OK for some other classes - 1/4" is the max I can deviate from stock offset, and that's only 6.35mm. Call it 6.0 because they don't let you round up at all... 49mm is the max I can go.
I guess that's good to know, if a little sad. Sure would be nice to stuff a ton of tire under the Fit, but there's not much real estate to work with by it's nature. 45mm offset is too much to work in Stock, but obviously OK for some other classes - 1/4" is the max I can deviate from stock offset, and that's only 6.35mm. Call it 6.0 because they don't let you round up at all... 49mm is the max I can go.
#4
11-07-2007, 09:23 AM
i want to start running HS class in solo also...what kinda tires should i get...i plan on runing r-cpd tires...but i'm new in that area and i want soemthing that will last me a whole season...and something that can go on the stock fit rims...i want a size and a brand tire...thank you!!
#5
11-07-2007, 09:55 AM
Brand? You can see several brands if you go to tirerack.com and select the "competition" option on their tire finder app. Avon, Hoosier, Toyo, Kumho, Falken... lots to choose from.
Size is the question, and what I was hoping to get some feedback on in this thread. Most 225/50-15 tires will list a 6" wheel as the minimum wheel size for that tire, but it's not a great fit. A 195/50 would probably be the best fit for a 6" wheel, but that's a lot less rubber on the ground than a 205 or 215. The 225 may be pinched so much that the contact patch doesn't end up being any wider than a smaller tire that fits the wheel better. I think with the lack of any other information, a 205/50 would probably be the best bet and easiest fit in the wheel wells and on the wheel using OEM wheels. It will lower the car slightly (0.2") and have slightly better gearing than the stock 195/55's, and they're relatively cheap because they're very popular. Search ePay for some great deals on lightly used race tires.
Regarding wear, heat = wear, but heat = grip, too. A smaller tire will heat up faster than a larger one, and could be a real advantage on a cold day. On a hot day, a tire that's too small will overheat and not grip as well. It's all a balance.
Size is the question, and what I was hoping to get some feedback on in this thread. Most 225/50-15 tires will list a 6" wheel as the minimum wheel size for that tire, but it's not a great fit. A 195/50 would probably be the best fit for a 6" wheel, but that's a lot less rubber on the ground than a 205 or 215. The 225 may be pinched so much that the contact patch doesn't end up being any wider than a smaller tire that fits the wheel better. I think with the lack of any other information, a 205/50 would probably be the best bet and easiest fit in the wheel wells and on the wheel using OEM wheels. It will lower the car slightly (0.2") and have slightly better gearing than the stock 195/55's, and they're relatively cheap because they're very popular. Search ePay for some great deals on lightly used race tires.
Regarding wear, heat = wear, but heat = grip, too. A smaller tire will heat up faster than a larger one, and could be a real advantage on a cold day. On a hot day, a tire that's too small will overheat and not grip as well. It's all a balance.
#6
11-10-2007, 09:41 PM
205/50ZR15 Kumho v710 is probably the best bang for the buck for r tires. try to find some light wheels to run em on too (15x6 is a hard size to find) heres a decent resource aswell...
WHEELWEIGHTS.NET
WHEELWEIGHTS.NET
#9
11-11-2007, 12:30 PM
mrFroge, Aren't the 14" wheels 5.5" wide?
Mr B, I think the UTQG req's are in the ST* classes, like STU, STX, etc. I need to hit the rule book again to be sure, as I wasn't planning on playing there, but I *THINK* they're limited to like a 140 treadwear or something like that. The pure Stock classes, like HS, GS, DS, AS, etc can all use "R" compounds, as long as they're DOT-legal.
Mr B, I think the UTQG req's are in the ST* classes, like STU, STX, etc. I need to hit the rule book again to be sure, as I wasn't planning on playing there, but I *THINK* they're limited to like a 140 treadwear or something like that. The pure Stock classes, like HS, GS, DS, AS, etc can all use "R" compounds, as long as they're DOT-legal.
#11
11-12-2007, 03:33 AM
mrFroge, Aren't the 14" wheels 5.5" wide?
Mr B, I think the UTQG req's are in the ST* classes, like STU, STX, etc. I need to hit the rule book again to be sure, as I wasn't planning on playing there, but I *THINK* they're limited to like a 140 treadwear or something like that. The pure Stock classes, like HS, GS, DS, AS, etc can all use "R" compounds, as long as they're DOT-legal.
Mr B, I think the UTQG req's are in the ST* classes, like STU, STX, etc. I need to hit the rule book again to be sure, as I wasn't planning on playing there, but I *THINK* they're limited to like a 140 treadwear or something like that. The pure Stock classes, like HS, GS, DS, AS, etc can all use "R" compounds, as long as they're DOT-legal.
mr.Froge, the 15x6 i believe are 22lb. i remember reading that.
#12
11-12-2007, 07:58 AM
I REALLYREALLY hope the OEM wheels aren't that heavy. There's been a couple threads on the topic (one just a few lines below this thread) where I thought I saw they were closer to 17 or so. Still a dang heavy wheel for it's size. The 17x8 OEM Mustang Cobra wheels I have on my Valiant are only 22-23# each...
#13
11-12-2007, 03:29 PM
205/50ZR15 Kumho v710 is probably the best bang for the buck for r tires. try to find some light wheels to run em on too (15x6 is a hard size to find) heres a decent resource aswell...
WHEELWEIGHTS.NET
WHEELWEIGHTS.NET
Also I had 205-50-15 RA! and they rub in the back in moderate to heavy susp compresion, my wheels are 40 offset, and have progress springs.
I have the Konig heliums and I can't think of anything better for the money.
anyway, just sharing my little experience just to help.
#16
11-21-2007, 08:15 PM
I don't think the Konig Heliums come in an offset that would be legal for Stock class. 
I agree with others who say the Kumho V710 is probably a good R-comp choice. They got good results in a recent test by Grassroots Motorsports. But for something cheaper, the Avon Tech R-A is also getting good comments. Probably has longer tread life, too. Now selling for $119 each in 205-50/15 from tirerack:
Avon Tech R-A
I plan to hold out for the Kumho's unless financial disaster strikes (i.e. April 15, 2008
). The idea of using 215's front and 205s rear is appealing. I'll be using the stock Sport wheels since I haven't been able to find anything else that satisfies the rules. I plan to weigh one as soon as I get them dismounted, but most reports put the weight around 17 pounds each, which isn't terrible, but not great either.
Fitless, I'd love to see a pic of your Valiant if you get a chance. I dig old-school autocrossers! What region are you racing in, BTW?
I agree with others who say the Kumho V710 is probably a good R-comp choice. They got good results in a recent test by Grassroots Motorsports. But for something cheaper, the Avon Tech R-A is also getting good comments. Probably has longer tread life, too. Now selling for $119 each in 205-50/15 from tirerack:
Avon Tech R-A
I plan to hold out for the Kumho's unless financial disaster strikes (i.e. April 15, 2008
). The idea of using 215's front and 205s rear is appealing. I'll be using the stock Sport wheels since I haven't been able to find anything else that satisfies the rules. I plan to weigh one as soon as I get them dismounted, but most reports put the weight around 17 pounds each, which isn't terrible, but not great either.Fitless, I'd love to see a pic of your Valiant if you get a chance. I dig old-school autocrossers! What region are you racing in, BTW?
#17
11-21-2007, 11:21 PM
Hey, Skimmer,
I was wondering if you had found any better deals on wheels since the last time that topic came up. Ditto on the R-A's, but I just can't spring for stickies without a set of wheels to put them on, and I can't really justify pulling my Dunlops when they've only got 1200 miles on them... wife unit is tolerant, but not THAT tolerant... FWIW, some Rota's have 48mm offset, but I'm not sure you can get that offset in a 15x6. I'll have to call them and see what they can do. I like their Minilite/Panasport knockoffs for a retro kind of look. I may just go with those in a 15x7 and keep the stock wheels for autoX.
Speaking of autoX, you can see a photo of my Valiant in the "Show me your old car" threead, page 8. She's a joy to drive, but I just installed EFI on the old girl and haven't gotten it tuned yet. The new Kumho MX's on her haven't traveled more than a couple feet in the last month. Ugh. FWIW, I'm in SCCA Texas region, in the northeast (DFW) area. Lots of competitors, but light in HS - thankfully. I'm online with a bunch of other Mopar racers from coast to coast though, so if you see an old Mope at one of your local events, I may know the guy (or girl).
I was wondering if you had found any better deals on wheels since the last time that topic came up. Ditto on the R-A's, but I just can't spring for stickies without a set of wheels to put them on, and I can't really justify pulling my Dunlops when they've only got 1200 miles on them... wife unit is tolerant, but not THAT tolerant... FWIW, some Rota's have 48mm offset, but I'm not sure you can get that offset in a 15x6. I'll have to call them and see what they can do. I like their Minilite/Panasport knockoffs for a retro kind of look. I may just go with those in a 15x7 and keep the stock wheels for autoX.
Speaking of autoX, you can see a photo of my Valiant in the "Show me your old car" threead, page 8. She's a joy to drive, but I just installed EFI on the old girl and haven't gotten it tuned yet. The new Kumho MX's on her haven't traveled more than a couple feet in the last month. Ugh. FWIW, I'm in SCCA Texas region, in the northeast (DFW) area. Lots of competitors, but light in HS - thankfully. I'm online with a bunch of other Mopar racers from coast to coast though, so if you see an old Mope at one of your local events, I may know the guy (or girl).
#18
11-22-2007, 12:37 AM
i think i prolly am gonna go with the stock 15" sport wheel for autox as well, and mount some r-comps on em. i haven't had any luck finding anything usable either in a lighter weight. i will probably just get something cheap for the street.
#19
11-22-2007, 06:31 PM
Tires for stock class autocross-
Both the base Fit and Fit sport are in SCCA solo H-stock class.
You must use the same size wheels as what comes standard on the car.
Offset can be plus or minus 1/2" or as stated about + or - 6mm.
Hub bore 56mm. 4x100 bolt pattern.
Base Fit
14x5.5" +45mm offset
Tires
R compound (legal in stock class but not in Street Touring classes)
195/55-14 22.2" tire diameter vs 23" for stock
Kumho Ecsta V710 $115 each (closeout)
Kumho Victoracer V700 $125 each
The V710 is the tire of choice for best results but won't last that long, about one season of autocross with one driver. You can use them longer but they won't be as good/fast. Victoracers are good R compounds to start with and much more durable- may last two seasons or work with two drivers. Since the stock Fit doesn't have that much front negative camber you won't be using the full tread of the front tires, expect the outer edges to wear excessively. You can flip the tires so that the worn edges face the inside after about 30% of the outer edge is worn- this will extend the life of the tire and help to use the non worn inner edges. Flip only once is OK.
Tire rotation front to rear is fine with each event.
Fit Sport
15x6" rims +55mm offset
Estimated weight is 15 to 17.5 lbs each (based on some dealer sites that mention the weight).
Tires
For street tires treadrated 140 or more (can use them on the street and for autocross, no need to change tires at the event or can drive to event on race tires).
205-50-15 in Extreme Performance Summer tires-
Kumho Ecsta MX $81 each 220 treadwear 23.2" tire diameter
BF Goodrich g-Force T/A KD $136 each 200 treadwear
In 195/50-15 (Extreme Perf tires)
Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R $106 each 180 treadwear 22.7" tire diameter
(a popular street tire for autocross)
In 205/50-15 R compound tires (22.8" tire diameter)
Avon Tech R-A $119 each 40 treadwear (Auto-X or track)
BF Goodrich g-Force R1 $189 each 40 treadwear (good for track)
BF Goodrich g-Force T/A Drag Radial $115 each 0 treadwear (drag racing)
Hoosier A6 $197 each 40 treadwear (good for auto-X but expensive)
Hoosier R6 $197 each 40 treadwear (good for track, 2 driver auto-X)
Kumho Ecsta V710 $172 each 30 treadwear (auto-X or [track-wears fast])
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup $218 each 80 treadwear (better for track)
Yokohama Advan A048 $199 each 60 treadwear (better for track/wet track)
and Toyo Ra1 (better for track, more durable)
Fastest tires are likely Kumho V710 or Hoosier A6 for auto-X but do wear faster depending on how you drive.
Optional HFP 16x6.5" +55mm offset are not legal for stock classes but if you were in another class that allowed other wheel sizes then it is legal, but you can also run other wheels that might be lighter or even wider.
You must use the same size wheels as what comes standard on the car.
Offset can be plus or minus 1/2" or as stated about + or - 6mm.
Hub bore 56mm. 4x100 bolt pattern.
Base Fit
14x5.5" +45mm offset
Tires
R compound (legal in stock class but not in Street Touring classes)
195/55-14 22.2" tire diameter vs 23" for stock
Kumho Ecsta V710 $115 each (closeout)
Kumho Victoracer V700 $125 each
The V710 is the tire of choice for best results but won't last that long, about one season of autocross with one driver. You can use them longer but they won't be as good/fast. Victoracers are good R compounds to start with and much more durable- may last two seasons or work with two drivers. Since the stock Fit doesn't have that much front negative camber you won't be using the full tread of the front tires, expect the outer edges to wear excessively. You can flip the tires so that the worn edges face the inside after about 30% of the outer edge is worn- this will extend the life of the tire and help to use the non worn inner edges. Flip only once is OK.
Tire rotation front to rear is fine with each event.
Fit Sport
15x6" rims +55mm offset
Estimated weight is 15 to 17.5 lbs each (based on some dealer sites that mention the weight).
Tires
For street tires treadrated 140 or more (can use them on the street and for autocross, no need to change tires at the event or can drive to event on race tires).
205-50-15 in Extreme Performance Summer tires-
Kumho Ecsta MX $81 each 220 treadwear 23.2" tire diameter
BF Goodrich g-Force T/A KD $136 each 200 treadwear
In 195/50-15 (Extreme Perf tires)
Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R $106 each 180 treadwear 22.7" tire diameter
(a popular street tire for autocross)
In 205/50-15 R compound tires (22.8" tire diameter)
Avon Tech R-A $119 each 40 treadwear (Auto-X or track)
BF Goodrich g-Force R1 $189 each 40 treadwear (good for track)
BF Goodrich g-Force T/A Drag Radial $115 each 0 treadwear (drag racing)
Hoosier A6 $197 each 40 treadwear (good for auto-X but expensive)
Hoosier R6 $197 each 40 treadwear (good for track, 2 driver auto-X)
Kumho Ecsta V710 $172 each 30 treadwear (auto-X or [track-wears fast])
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup $218 each 80 treadwear (better for track)
Yokohama Advan A048 $199 each 60 treadwear (better for track/wet track)
and Toyo Ra1 (better for track, more durable)
Fastest tires are likely Kumho V710 or Hoosier A6 for auto-X but do wear faster depending on how you drive.
Optional HFP 16x6.5" +55mm offset are not legal for stock classes but if you were in another class that allowed other wheel sizes then it is legal, but you can also run other wheels that might be lighter or even wider.
#20
11-22-2007, 09:27 PM
Hey, MINI-Fit, I was hoping you'd chime in some time. Thanks for the guidance on all those brands - it's nice to have so many choices for our tiny tires. Any input on whether the larger sizes like 215's or 225's are of any benefit? How about staggering the tires larger front/smaller rear? Seems like a camber-challenged car might benefit from more rubber up front even if they're not prone to going up in smoke when we punch it off the turns...
If a 205/50 or 195/50 is the magic size, that's great, but since the tire budget is going to be pretty stinkin' tight for a few years, I'd hate to leave something on the table when I purchase my dedicated "fun" tires.
If a 205/50 or 195/50 is the magic size, that's great, but since the tire budget is going to be pretty stinkin' tight for a few years, I'd hate to leave something on the table when I purchase my dedicated "fun" tires.