I figure this will only interest the hard-core autocrossers out there, but anyway...

Over the weekend I made some quick camber measurements on my stock Fit and got some surprising results. FYI ... I used this style of camber/caster gauge -- cheap and crude but effective:

Caster/Camber Gauges - RPW Caster-Camber Gauge

Results:

LF -1/2 degree
RF +1/4 degree
LR -2 1/2 degree
RR -1 3/8 degree

A couple observations. Big differences from side to side, obviously, which isn't good for consistency in different kinds of turns (I did not simulate the driver's weight in the car, however, which might change things a bit). The difference in front can be fixed with the factory "crash bolts" which will also allow you to dial in more negative camber, and still remain legal for stock class. This will help, but probably not more than 8/10ths of a degree total change (according to the factory repair manual).

The difference between the rear wheels is surprisingly large and not adjustable. Aftermarket shims are available, yes, but not legal in stock class. I'm surprised there is so much negative camber in the rear. That's good. But it will make good alignment settings in the front even more critical to minimize understeer (i.e. that much negative camber in the rear will make it even more difficult to get any oversteer out of the car).

I have not checked the factory toe-in setting on my car yet, but that's next.

 

that's good info brotha. that really is a lot of camber in the rear... time for some camber up front

 

You should measure the camber with a driver in the seat - it will probably end up more balanced.

 

Yeah, I will. Like I said, this was a 'quickee' measurement. I'll simulate the driver's weight when I do the toe measurement, too.

 

Sounds good. I'm curious to see what you get out of it.

What toe are you going to run?

 

I'm going to start out at zero toe and see how that works. My plan is to get the factory "crash bolts" and set as much negative camber in front as possible (I think it will be no more than 1.5 deg., so pretty streetable). Once I have the camber set, it should be fairly easy play around with toe. I'd like to see how a little toe-out feels on the street. If it's unpleasant in daily life, I'll take it back to zero.

By the way, my Honda dealer had to order the crash bolts. They could only identify 3 bolts total in their regional parts distribution system, so they had to go hunting around for the 4th. I'm still waiting to hear. Apparently these aren't yet easy to come by.

 

It's this very reason that I will be starting the season running R-Comps in the front only(if I stay in H Stock). I've been discussing this very thing with friends over the passed weekend.

 

Skimmer, you've come up with some interesting numbers for the Fit.

I'm in the process of having the alignment done and have been discussing the issue of autox with some senior drivers. Their suggestion is to start with a camber setting of -1.5 to 2.5 on the front. And the back should be set to 0 (Zero) on our front wheel cars. <<the rear wheels are used only to keep the gas tank from dragging on rear-wheel cars>> Set the toe to zero.

Camber plates are very handy if legal for your class. this makes it easy to adjust for events which have layouts that have more left or right turns.

I've noticed the r compound tires on the rear show a wear that is indicative of an extreme negative camber on the Fit.

I always use chalk on the tires to check for cornering role on the tires. I have notice that the fronts look good and exhibit good wear. I'm reluctant to make changes at this point but I due want to find out the current camber and toe.

 

As fas as I know, both the Fit and 8thgen Civic have a good amount of negative camber in the rear.

What surprises me is that the right front is +camber, while the left front is -camber. Wouldn't that make the car pull to the right slightly, even if the the driver is sitting inside?

And the rear camber seems outa whack. 7/8th* difference? Seems like a major difference to me.

 

I'd say that driver's side spring sag is contributing to the difference L to R. Anyone that drives this car primarily by themselves will have it.

 

Yeah, the rather large differences across the car surprised me, too. But I hope to make some more precise measurements this weekend and will post them here if I do. And I'll do it by simulating driver weight and adjusting for uneven pavement first.

I don't think a camber difference like that would cause the car to pull, and mine doesn't.

My Fit only has about 3,500 miles on it, so I doubt spring sag on one side is to blame. If anything, it will be sagging in the back from toting around 140 pounds of dogs all the time!

BTW, I got my R-comp tires mounted up on Saturn wheels yesterday, so I'll probably put those on before new alignment measuring for better accuracy. Watch for pics!

 

I think you'd be suprised by the variation in stock ride height L to R or vice-versa. I only have 4500 miles and notice an approximate .75" difference. Nevertheless, it's common knowledge that all factory alignments are teh suck, as I usually get one before the first oil change for peace of mind.

 

I added camber bolts to my Fit. I told them to add the most negative camber they could. With the bolts they claim only around 1 to -1 degree.
At the most Im probably around -2... I wouldnt know because I didnt get a print out.

With my Eurosports on my car and the negative camber up front; holyshat does my car handle good! DAMN good. I went around some S bents last night. Never did I once let up off the gas and I was going a good 50+ mph when entering each one. On the way back I did get some tire squeal. Very impressed at what camber adjustments can do.

 

That's cool. I've got the OEM camber bolts on order with my Honda dealer. They found 3 and are now searching for the 4th. Apparently they are not easy to come by.

 

I had my Fit front Camber set last week. The Technician was able to adjust both sides to -1.25 (using crash bolts) and said with a little more work he could get it to -1.5. But I decided to drive it for awhile to see how it handled.

The factory front Camber spec is 0 +/- 1 and rear is -1.5 +/-1 There are ways to shim the rear adjustment, but I'm waiting to see how it drives before making a change. I'm afraid at 0 camber setting in the rear may make it very unstable in high side winds, or winds off of large semis. (my rear Camber is set at ~ -2.5 on both sides. This is an eary serial number Fit.)

I don't believe there is any attempt to do an alignment in manufacturing a modern automobile. The tolerances associated with the assembly of the steering assembly are supposed to be within the factory spec, LOF.

There is no practical way to adjust Caster on our Fit without major mechanical modifications.

 

See
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-...n-brakes/15129
see post #192 for specs on alignment for stock and after installation of Honda Pinch bolts.

Crash bolts/front camber kit may allow for more front negative camber adjustment.

Honda Pinch bolts are just like stock bolts but have a slightly smaller diameter to allow for minor adjustment only. One could argue that pinch bolts would be legal for stock class SCCA events- not sure about aftermarket
Crach bolts or front camber kit.

With pinch bolts you can adjust a little but not that much.
I was able to get about -0.7 to -0.9 front negative camber vs -0.2 to -0.3 for stock.

 

Those shims won't be legal for stock-class autocross, since they aren't specified by the factory.

 

I think it is in the interpretation that counts. The spirit and stated purpose purpose of the rule is to allow an adjustment that are within the factor spec. If using factory pinch bolts is legal (it is), then hand picking stock suspension components to give you the rear camber you want is Okay as long as you don't exceed factory specs.

"B. Both the front and rear suspension may be adjusted through their
designed range of adjustment by use of factory adjustment arrangements or by taking advantage of inherent manufacturing

tolerances."

I feel that not changing the rear camber can be compensated for by running a hard, small width, rear tire. Like maybe two of the spare dough-nuts. We have a few years to go (if ever) before we can challenge other cars in H-Stock and someone protests a mod we make legally or illegally.

 

I agree with all that. But it's important to have two documents in hand when deciding whether something is legal: the SCCA rulebook, and the factory repair manual for your car.

This is from section 13.8(E) of the rulebook:

"If authorized by the manufacturer, the use of shims, special bolts,
removal of material to enlarge mounting holes, and similar
methods are allowed and the resulting alignment settings are
permitted even if outside the normal specification or range of
specifications recommended by the manufacturer. If enlarging
mounting holes is specifically authorized but no material removal
limits are specified, material removal is restricted to the
amount necessary to achieve the maximum factory alignment
specification."

The Honda factory repair manual for the Fit specifies a factory part number "crash bolt" for adjusting front alignment. But the manual specifies no procedure of any kind for adjusting rear alignment, not to mention any special parts. It simply can't be adjusted.

I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade, just laying out some facts. And I'll be the first to make the most of any "looseness" in the rules. "That's racing," as they say, and the Fit is going to need all the help it can get against Mini Coopers and Mazda 3s. But when I start winning (he he), I don't want to be protested. I want the trophy and all the spoils!

Awhile back, Grassroots Motorsports magazine had a story on just this issue involving a fwd car with a beam rear suspension and no adjustment ability (I recollect it was a Nissan). What they did was to bend the whole suspension beam in a controlled manner, using hydraulic rams and chains, to change the camber. I don't remember for sure if this was for a stock-class car. But I do seem to remember some discussion in the article about how this kind of change would be difficult to detect and, if it was, could be blamed on accident damage or poor manufacturing.

 

You can go to Honda Parts Dept-

Ask for the pinch bolts that allow front camber adjustment:
Honda Part number 90188-SCC-A00
Each about $4.77
You can use 1 or 2 each for right and for left. Maximum adjustment- use a total of four, otherwise 2 (one each side)
I used 2 for each side and got front camber -0.7 to -0.9 range vs -0.2 to -0.3 with stock bolts.
These bolts are size thread and length as stock but have slightly smaller diameter in the middle of the bolt which allows for a little adjustment.