The fit's O2 sensor
 

Ok, thought I'd make a new topic about this, as it not only affects me but a couple others I know I've given bad advice to.

The Fit has a WIDEBAND oxygen sensor for the primary (upstream) unit. I had suspected this when I priced out another unit for after mine started acting funny, and did some research. Turns out, ALL hondas with the ULEV classification use wide-range LAF (Lean Air-Fuel) sensors.

Well this explains why the ECU is so good at tuning out changes made to the E-Manage when in closed loop.

It also means that the ESC1 I bought (and YeeFit also bought) WILL NOT WORK!

We will need a different version of the ESC1 (they make one specifically for widebands, I believe).

This also explains why the ECU doesn't kick in to open loop until 70 or 80% throttle, regardless of manifold pressure. The Wideband sensor is effective at a wider range, so the ECU uses it at a wider range.

I'm also suspecting that my sensor is getting dirty (as opposed to totally failing), as it works great, SOMETIMES. Other times it idles off the scale rich, or bucks at part throttle. I'm going to try pulling the sensor to clean it this weekend, and I'll report back.

Damn, now I'm pissed. I've gotta sell this ESC1 just to get the other version. Anyone want an ESC1 for a narrowband sensor?

Hmmmm.... I was just at the exhaust shop to get my O2 bung welded on. They were saying that I could get a different O2 sensor that could force the ECU into open loop at all times... not sure if thats a good idea tho and I'm not sure they know much about import turboing.

So... DOES this mean we don't have to buy widebands as all we need is to tap the existing O2 sensors and that will be enough?

So does this mean we don't have to use emanage anymore? sounds like the stock ECU can automatically adjust fuel and duty cycle by itself O__________O

They want your money, because they know import tuners pays extra attention to details.

it may be a wideband, but its nowhere near as accurate as a wideband gauge/sensor kit.

how do you tell from looking at the o2 sensor to see if it needs replacing ?

and ESC1....is that a vacuum block ?
ESC1

Doing some more research, the stock Honda widebands don't have nearly the range or accuracy required for our needs.

No. Just because it has a wideband sensor doesn't mean it knows what boost is or how to deal with it, nor how to deal with the larger injectors.

+1

You don't. The oxygen sensor needs replacing becuase the catalyst elements inside it are depleted. You would have to voltage test it to know if it really needs replacing, which is what your ECU did before it threw that code. You could see if it's just dirty or covered in soot, which could cause the CEL. If it is, clean it off with a soft brush like a toothbrush and try it.

The ESC1 is a unit that sends a perfect "stoich" signal to the computer when in boost, to try and alleviate any closed-loop fuel adjustments when in boost. The unit I have is only compatable with narrowband sensors, though. I thought I saw one for widebands, but now I can't find it. Maybe I was hallucinating..

So...

What's the plan for fighting the stock ECU currently?

As for the wideband, is it a good idea to connect it to the Emanage ultimate?

Wideband -> emanage
Boost controller -> emanage

Don't connect the stock O2 sensor to the Emanage, you won't get good numbers. The AEM unit, however, you can hook up, and it will datalog just fine. You can even use it to make a rough map, but that's about it.

EDIT:

wanted to add that I have a couple ideas for our closed loop issue that I'll be trying soon. I'm working on an idea to work WITH the ecu rather than against it. I'll keep you guys updated.

WTF is Emanage doing during close loop? Is it actually doing anything?

what is the plan?

looks like my turbo kit will sit in the garage until this problem is solved.

The EManage does the same thing in open and closed loop. It pulls or adds fuel injector pulsewidth depending on the map you have loaded and the parameters it sees. These adjustments are made as a percentage change from the original (stock) value. The problem lies with the stock ECU pulling fuel to shoot for an AFR that it thinks is proper. Problem is, this "proper" afr just causes the ECU to meddle in something that it shouldn't.

I'm cooking up something... As for your kit, you should be fine to install it. We've all been running this way for quite some time with no issues. Just try to avoid boost at partial throttle as much as possible and you should be just fine.

Try avoiding boost at partial throttle? How? lol. that will take away the fun of driving!

what do you mean by avoid boosting at partial throttle?

does that mean just stay out of boost unless im WOT?

Granted...

I'm wondering if it really is all that much of a problem, as the KWSC's supercard is basically a non-tunable, ultra-simplified Emanage. It has a voltage clamp for the MAP signal to prevent a CEL, and it extends the injector pulses directly by tapping into them. There is NO adjustment to fueling for closed loop, as it doesn't connect to the stock ECU or the oxygen sensor at all. So basically, all the KWSC guys are running 5psi, and quite possibly doing it in closed loop for a good bit of the time.

Yes, that's the idea, but like I said I really don't know how much of a problem it is. I'm working on something to see what I can get out of our setup control-wise.

is there any chance that card would work for the turbo that is at 5psi?

there's a chance, but it isn't a good idea. A supercharger will push the same amount of air at a given RPM. It doesn't spike, and it doesn't "spool". A turbo will always spike just a little bit, especially when it gets cold. You also have the extra pressure in the exhaust manifold which can cause pinging if you're not pulling timing (which the card doesn't).

I'd be interested to see if it works, though...

hmmmm..... well im not willing to try but i just thought it could be possible.

depending on your outcomes i guess i might start saving for the f manage.