So since both kits have been out for a little while i was wondering what people that own either kit think of them after having them installed for a little while, and if anybody has had any issues (short-term or long-term) with either of the kits.

I already know that some people have said that the HKS kit overheats and that the average install time for the T1R is around 15 hours, but is there anything else?

 

i dont have either, but i would recomend the t1r based on all ive seen and read about it.

and if you look around you can find it for $3100
http://www.spoonhonda.com/Type_One_R...it-fit-gd3.htm

 

get t1r. check the t1r turbo thread.

 

I've got a question about both kits actually, and i don't think it's been mentioned on the forums, but has anyone ever checked the boost pressure of the HKS and T1R turbo kits near the BOV before the air enters the throttle body, but after it passes through the intercooler?

The only reason i'm asking is because it seems like both kits use pretty much the same turbo, but the T1R kit seems to be making as much horsepower at 6psi as the HKS kit is making at 8-10 psi even with 310cc injectors and a cat-delete. So all i can think of is that the HKS turbo kit is losing about 2-3 psi more than the T1R kit after passing through the intercooler.

 

HKS has been around longer
HKS is C.A.R.B cert
HKS runs safer AFR's out of the box
HKS you dont have to drill oil pan
HKS you dont have to cut a million wires ruining your cars 500 dollar wire harness
HKS makes the same power that T1R makes with a test pipe and u get to keep your stock injectors
HKS is cheaper
HKS intercooler piping looks better in the front bumper,i.e. symmetrical on both sides of the inter cooler
HKS offers shorter install times so u can get out faster and go drive
HKS uses the f-con which lets you look at engine parameters on a video screen (e-manage, not so much)
HKS was developed in japan, same place where the car was made
HKS only lets certified tuners tune there soft where not any yahoo with a dyno and a lap top


i dont know bro to me its sells it self now dont get me wrong the t1r kit a nice kit but if i had to choose(and i did) I'd got HKS every time.

 

I understand that the fit/fitment is better on the HKS kit and i realize that the F-con IS is better than the emanage, but at the same time according to your dynos you're made the same amount of power @ 5psi as the T1R kit makes @ 4.5psi, and then the same amount of power @ 8 psi as people with the T1R kit have been making @ ~6psi, so i think my question is still valid.

Is the HKS kit losing more psi than the T1R after passing through the intercooler and all the charge piping?

 

im not sure what ur talking about but if there is no boost leak then there is no pressure loss. boost will stay the same as coming out the turbo as it is entering the T/B

 

I can't completely explain what I'm talking about, but i can offer a few links/quotes to better explain what I'm talking about.

These are taken from Bell Intercoolers FAQ section:

What ranges of pressure loss can be expected? And what is acceptable?
For good solid performance, the pressure loss across the intercooler ought to be kept to less than 1.0 to 1.5 psi. If any pressure in excess of 4 psi is measured, then the intercooler is not suited for the job and certainly harming the performance

What is flow loss thru an intercooler?
Flow loss is what is measured in the pressure loss and is the restriction presented to the smooth, easy air flow through the system. Essentially, the drag. It is measured by a pressure difference between the air charge entering the intercooler to that exiting the intercooler. This flow loss is due to the aerodynamic drag offered by the shape, the net area of the tubes, the length of the tubes, and the density and style of the turbulators



I did find a chart earlier that showed how pressure loss increases as you raise the max psi of a turbo, but i can't seem to find it right now.

 

This is just an example that i found for an STi aftermarket intercooler:

I can't seem to copy/paste it so here's the link: http://www.airpowersystems.com/wrx/a...dr525_fmic.htm the table showing pressure loss is near to bottom of the page, obviously this is only for reference.

 

HKS has been around longer - This isn't really true, atleast not for the USDM version
HKS is C.A.R.B cert - This is true, but if you want more than 127whp than it will no longer be C.A.R.B. legal
HKS runs safer AFR's out of the box - This may or may not be true, you should always tune after installing any kit, base maps are crap. There's too much to factor in like temps, altitude, etc.
HKS you dont have to drill oil pan - This is true, but a banjo drain plug oil return sounds shady to most ppl
HKS you dont have to cut a million wires ruining your cars 500 dollar wire harness - This isn't true, T1R Emanage requires about 6-8 wires to be cut and 4-6 to be tapped onto. That doesn't equal a million and it took me 15 minutes. You still have to cut/splice 2 wires and extend a bunch more with the HKS kit.
HKS makes the same power that T1R makes with a test pipe and u get to keep your stock injectors - This is not true. I don't know where you get that from. 6psi T1R makes 165whp. You need bigger than 185cc injectors to get 165whp. HKS actually recommends 290cc stock K20 injectors for increased boost and test pipe.
HKS is cheaper - Not in the long run it isn't. HKS kit doesn't come with test pipe, BOV, bigger injectors, and washer bottle relocation. Plus HKS tuning costs $$$ where Emanage tuning could cost a lot less if you know ppl who can tune or talk to explosivpotato here on the forum.
HKS intercooler piping looks better in the front bumper,i.e. symmetrical on both sides of the inter cooler - To each his own, I won't debate piping, but I have no complaints with my routing/kit
HKS offers shorter install times so u can get out faster and go drive - This should NOT be a deciding factor, install it properly once and have piece of mind. Took me 2 days patiently and carefully installing
HKS uses the f-con which lets you look at engine parameters on a video screen (e-manage, not so much) - Emanage allows you to tune yourself and make adjustments, whereas the HKS F-Con you can't as you need an authorized HKS dealer to tune/unlock your F-Con. That to me is worth a million times more than a display.
HKS was developed in japan, same place where the car was made - T1R was developed in Japan as well, ask Ben at AJ-R.
HKS only lets certified tuners tune there soft where not any yahoo with a dyno and a lap top - "Any yahoo" shouldn't touch your car, there are probably 100x more certified and amazing GReddy tuners out there compared to HKS tuners.


That's my 0.02.

Both kits are great, my local HKS tuner charges $150/hr to tune the F-Con. I've learnt a lot doing tweaks to my GReddy Emanage on my own. I think its better to know yourself and teach yourself than to let someone else do it for me. Personal preference.

I do believe both kits are great, cost is about the same if you try to get the HKS to the same level as the T1R kit.

If you need washer fluid then the HKS isn't even an option. The T1R kit comes with a smaller JDM washer bottle so you can retain that feature. For me up here in the north, washer fluid is a MUST.

I do like the HKS F-Con and how it connects to the car, but I don't regret my Emanage. Plus if you need assistance there's plenty of ppl who can help on this site with the Emanage and tuning. You can't get than with the HKS kit since its reserved for authorized HKS tuners.

 

YEE lol you know i love ya dog and you know im a fighter but lol thats a lot to come back to i see your points and i hope you see mine, lets just end it with the fit is bad ass no matter how you look at it lol
im just not that motivated to come back to all your points lol

 

Hahaha. i know we've been through too many times.. no point in beating ourselves over the head anymore

I love the HKS kit, I started the thread. I'm only 1 out of I think over 10 T1R users that am having AFR idle issues (too rich), and if I can't fix my problem by August (after my wedding) then I'm buying the HKS Vpro to tune my car with and ditching the Emanage.

I think it can be fixed tho, so I still have hope.

I think either kits or even a K20 swap are sick for the Fit. Any of those will put a mean grin on your face at the end of the day

If you do some searching in the FI forum you'll see the same stuff go back and forth and be able to make your decision based on past posts

 

hks kit's turbo is made by Garrett T25 turbine A/R is .63
t1r kit's turbo is .48

hks internal
t1r external

stock HKS Kit, my boost gauge read max 5.4psi manifold boost (after throttle plates). 5.7psi wastegate spring.

 

I don't understand something though, cuz according to the A/R's the T1R should spool faster, but the torque curve should also fall off sooner, right? but from the dyno's I've seen the torque curves look pretty much the same.

And do you think the internal/external wastegates are enough to account for the differences in power?

Thanks for the info on the boost pressures though, it just means that there's something else there to account for the differences in power.

And just so that i'm not misunderstanding anything, an internal wastegate vents the extra compressed air into the downpipe, right?

 

Internal wastegate will cause a power limiter in the diameter of the exhaust since the wastegate vents back into the down pipe adding more pressure into the exhaust. This should help more for low end torque vs the T1R external kit. But in return the T1R kit will yield a higher rpm torque and hp with the external wastegate. If you look at it, the HKS kit will be either a 50mm or 60mm exhaust and the T1R kit will be a 50mm or 60mm exhaust PLUS the external wastegate which is about a 30-40mm down pipe

My T1R kit shows a boost pressure of 5.7psi max with just the wastegate spring. I went as high as 8.5psi with a MBC.

The torque curve may drop off sooner when the T1R turbo hits its limit, but that is nearing 15psi. No one has gone that high yet.. at 6psi you won't notice a difference. There are much more limiting factors once you get near the 10psi mark (internals, fuel delivery, injectors, etc)

 

How bad is the fitment of the oil return line and the external wastegate really?

T1R has a 2.5 inch downpipe right? so with that plus the .5-.75 inch external wastegate, I wonder what kind of numbers the HKS kit would see with a 3 inch downpipe since that would basically be the equivalent then for what the T1R kit has.

 

But you have to take into consideration of the rest of the exhaust... 50-60mm exhaust systems are typical for the fit. even if you have a 3" downpipe it still has to exit out the end.

Fitment of the oil return line isn't bad, I would recommend tapping and welding on a AN fitting into the pan vs either the T1R or HKS method.

 

sorry i should have mentioned that there's a shop in Red Deer that does custom mandrel bent exhausts, so i was actually thinking 3 inch from the turbo back.

Well they don't actually bend the pipes, but they'll buy the pre-bent pipes, cut them, and weld them back together to fit them into an exhaust.

 

Hmmm well in that case it shouldn't make too much of a difference.. is there an HKS certified tuner in Edmonton?

I know there is RCTS here in Calgary, but they are expensive for tuning.. $200 for the first hour to setup, then $150 per hour to tune your car.. look to spend about $700 to get your car tuned if you go HKS and the RCTS.

They charged me $500 for trying to tune my emanage, but they are so brand loyal (even tho they are a GReddy dealer too). And I ended up removing their tuned map cause my car ran way worse after they wasted my time and money.

 

Ouch that sucks about your emanage tune, honestly i don't think there's really any tuner's in Edmonton period, a friend of mine had to drive to Red Deer to get his car tuned, but he spent way more than what you're quoting for RCTS.

Do you know how much RCTS would charge to put in a Vpro unit and tune it, cuz my friend spent about $3500 to get his Vipec standalone installed and tuned, and really if I had to drive to Calgary it wouldn't be that bad, I mean it's only 300km there're guys on here travelling 500 miles just to get a tune in the states.

How much do other places in Calgary charge for tuning?