How to Tune the Greddy E-Manage Ultimate
#1
11-10-2008, 01:07 AM
How to Tune the Greddy E-Manage Ultimate
So, we got a little off-topic in our other thread, so I've consolidated the info given here. Mods, could we sticky this?
Well, I got a couple of PM's about tuning and voltage clamps, so I thought I'd write up everything I know about tuning the Greddy E-manage.
I'm far from an expert on this, so if anyone has anything to add please feel free!
Disclaimer: I take no responsibility for any damage done to your car by improper tuning. This is a guide based on my experience, nothing more.
Start from the beginning:
So, you've got your T1R turbo kit (or any other kit for that matter), and you're using the Greddy E-manage Ultimate for management. What do you do?
Well, if you bought a kit, your E-manage probably came with a base map for your setup. This map might work alright, or it might run like poop. It's really hard to tell unless you have the right tools, and this is not the type of thing you want to be in the dark with.
To start with, you'll need the right tools:
You could theoretically do this without a wideband, but it's REALLY not a good idea. You can't get nearly the accuracy you need to tune.
So, you're sitting in the car with your wideband in front of you and your laptop on your passenger seat. It's time to
Start Tuning:
The first thing to do is to start up your laptop (must be windows-based) with the support tool and EMU drivers installed (on the CD that came with your EMU). Once you connect your USB cable, turn your ignition ON, but do not start the engine.
Your support tool should show ONLINE in the bottom right of the window, and you should get a confirmation box that asks if you want to import data from the E-Manage.
Click YES.
You will now have the base map on your E-Manage tool. You will see a bunch of different maps on the left hand side of your window in a file tree. Open up the Airflow Adjustment map, I/J adjustment map, and the Boost Limiter Cut setting map.
If you don't see any of these maps, you can activate them by clicking the little blue car at the top of the screen in the menu bar (called "Parameters" if you roll the mouse over it). Once you're in the parameters box, click "maps" and activate the maps you need. Click "Apply," and "OK". While you're there, you should make sure your Injector Adjustment is right. You should click the 'Injector' tab, and make sure the before and after injector sizes are right. The stock is 185cc, and the T1R kit comes with 310cc injectors. This parameter is already set in the T1R base map.
The first thing you'll need to do is get rid of the Base adjustments. In the T1R kit, this is done in the Airflow Adjustment map. Go to this map, and zero out everything (easily done by clicking the top right box in the spreadsheet and typing '0').
Next, you need a MAP Voltage clamp to avoid CEL's and Limp mode when your ECU sees boost. Go to the Boost Limiter Cut setting map, and make all the values 2.95v. This will prevent the ECU from seeing anything over ~15psi absolute, or roughly atmospheric pressure.
Now, start the car. The built-in injector adjustment should take care of the idle. If adjustments need to be made, do them with the injector adjustment in the parameters window.
NOTE:
The fit's ECU is VERY good at adjusting for wrong tuning settings. This usually doesn't make much difference, as long as you're running the right AFR's, but if your map is too rich or too lean, you'll throw a code. I threw P0171, fuel system TOO LEAN. So, even though I was running good AFR's, my fuel trims were off. So, I changed the AFTER injector size to 290cc from 310 in the parameters tab. This richened up my whole map, and no more codes!
Adjusting the Map Scale:
Now that you're looking at your I/J map, you'll notice that the scale might not be to your liking.
I set mine to go to 8psi on the lefthand column, and 7000 RPM on the top row. To do this, choose beginning and ending values (IE 0psi and 8psi) and use the "Interpolate Rows" or "Interpolate Columns" in the edit drop-down menu.
You only really need 1 or 2 rows for Vacuum (below 0Psi), so you can choose negative values for 1 or 2 rows, then make a row for 0, one at the end for 8Psi, and interpolate to make a smooth distribution. The RPM row at the top should be smooth, from 500 or so to 7000 or so rpm. Make sure to interpolate!
Now that you've made this change, save your map. Since you're connected in real-time, saving will update the main unit. If you're not sure, click the "update main unit" button at the top menu bar.
So, now that you've got a map, you need values. To be safe, I'd put 100's in the bottom left and bottom right (that would be 8Psi and 7000 rpm and 8Psi and 500 rpm). Now, select everything from 0psi at 500RPM all the way over to 8Psi and 7000rpm. Now, pull down the 'Edit' menu and select 'Interpolate 4 corners'.
Now, you have a boost map that should be workable. Make sure your E-manage is updated, and go for a drive. Your wideband (you DO have one, right?) should show the AFR oscillating around 14-15 at idle and while driving around.
On empty roads, do a few 3rd gear pulls if possible (higher gear = more load, and a slower pull so you have more time to see the AFR changes) while watching the AFRs. It might help to have someone in the car to help you watch things.
Now that you've seen how the AFR's are in boost, you can adjust. I had to pull fuel in high RPMs in boost, and pull a little more from the low rpms.
Make sure you interpolate your changes!
Now you can work with the timing maps. Read what artieman has talked about down at the bottom of this thread RE timing!
This is just a baseline guide for tuning. After playing with my map for an hour or two, I've got a map I'm really happy with. I'm running 12.5 Air:fuel in boost, and NO CODES!
Let me know if you guys have any suggestions for this, I'm hoping we can make a full guide for people to tune their own E-Manage. When I was learning, there was a disturbing lack of information on tuning the E-Manage.
Maybe once we've got this perfected, maybe we can get this stickied!
EDITS:
Extra tools, Datalogging:
Map trace:
By clicking the "Logger" drop down menu, and choosing "Map Trace," you can activate one of the E-Manage's Map Tracing feature. Here, the active cell in all active maps will be highlighted, so you (or your tuning assistant) can see what cell you are in when you need to make adjustments. This is really useful, as you know EXACTLY what the problem cell is.
Datalogging:
In the Logger drop-down menu, choose "datalog." This will open a new menu, where you can choose the time interval and channels for datalogging. When you press the START button, the unit will begin logging all selected parameters. This is especially useful when you connect your wideband to the E-Manage. You can log things like RPM, AFR, Injector Duty Cycle, and a whole mess of other parameters and look at the graph later.
Advanced Tactics:
This one was posted by artieman:
little lesson for you guys and gals...if you have a fuel ratio of 10.8:1 and want 12.5:1 whats the percent of adjustment...well the trick for this is have over want....you have 10.8:1 and want 12.5:1....so take 10.8 and divide it by 12.5...gives you 0.864....so take the fuel value in that cell...lets say its a value of 285 in the cell....take 285 and times it by 0.864 and thats your corrected value....can work for any value in the cell doesnt matter if its a value or time in ms
cell value of 285 give you 10.8:1 on a/f for that cell and you want 12.5:1.....take 285x0.864 and youll get 246.24 (just round it 246) and youll be about dead on for 12.5:1
some tuning systems also do it by a correction factor...where a value of 1 means no change...so if you have a value of 1 in that fuel cell and get 10.8:1 a/f ratio put 0.864 (or round it to 0.8) and it should put you at your target of 12.5:1
other systems do it by ms or milliseconds...time based...so if 11ms gives you 10.8 then take 11 and times it by 0.864 which is 9.504 or about 9.5ms to get 12.5:1
have/want ...easy to remember
^^
This is a much better method than guessing/checking like I did the first time around.
Below are a couple topics and pictures posted by artieman that might be helpful:
youll want to pull a couple degrees of timing in boost....i think the fit runs about 18 degrees at wot (wide open throttle) stock....in boost youll want to pregressively remove timing to your max boost level...
here is an example
this was a newer civic si with k series and greddy turbo kit i tuned....car made 238whp at 5.5psi
__________________________
yes partially correct....but the timing your adjusting is on top of the stock timing maps....the emanage is a piggy back system....
this is typically what a boosted timing map will look like...this is comparable to hondata which is not piggy back
If anyone has any contributions, post them here, and I'll add them to this post. Now let's all pull for this to get stickied! I think this could be of great help to the would-be tuners out there (like me).
Well, I got a couple of PM's about tuning and voltage clamps, so I thought I'd write up everything I know about tuning the Greddy E-manage.
I'm far from an expert on this, so if anyone has anything to add please feel free!
Disclaimer: I take no responsibility for any damage done to your car by improper tuning. This is a guide based on my experience, nothing more.
Start from the beginning:
So, you've got your T1R turbo kit (or any other kit for that matter), and you're using the Greddy E-manage Ultimate for management. What do you do?
Well, if you bought a kit, your E-manage probably came with a base map for your setup. This map might work alright, or it might run like poop. It's really hard to tell unless you have the right tools, and this is not the type of thing you want to be in the dark with.
To start with, you'll need the right tools:
- A laptop with a USB 2.0 A-B cable
- The Greddy E-manage support tool (should have come with your EMU)
- A wideband O2 gauge like the AEM UEGO Wideband
You could theoretically do this without a wideband, but it's REALLY not a good idea. You can't get nearly the accuracy you need to tune.
So, you're sitting in the car with your wideband in front of you and your laptop on your passenger seat. It's time to
Start Tuning:
The first thing to do is to start up your laptop (must be windows-based) with the support tool and EMU drivers installed (on the CD that came with your EMU). Once you connect your USB cable, turn your ignition ON, but do not start the engine.
Your support tool should show ONLINE in the bottom right of the window, and you should get a confirmation box that asks if you want to import data from the E-Manage.
Click YES.
You will now have the base map on your E-Manage tool. You will see a bunch of different maps on the left hand side of your window in a file tree. Open up the Airflow Adjustment map, I/J adjustment map, and the Boost Limiter Cut setting map.
If you don't see any of these maps, you can activate them by clicking the little blue car at the top of the screen in the menu bar (called "Parameters" if you roll the mouse over it). Once you're in the parameters box, click "maps" and activate the maps you need. Click "Apply," and "OK". While you're there, you should make sure your Injector Adjustment is right. You should click the 'Injector' tab, and make sure the before and after injector sizes are right. The stock is 185cc, and the T1R kit comes with 310cc injectors. This parameter is already set in the T1R base map.
The first thing you'll need to do is get rid of the Base adjustments. In the T1R kit, this is done in the Airflow Adjustment map. Go to this map, and zero out everything (easily done by clicking the top right box in the spreadsheet and typing '0').
Next, you need a MAP Voltage clamp to avoid CEL's and Limp mode when your ECU sees boost. Go to the Boost Limiter Cut setting map, and make all the values 2.95v. This will prevent the ECU from seeing anything over ~15psi absolute, or roughly atmospheric pressure.
Now, start the car. The built-in injector adjustment should take care of the idle. If adjustments need to be made, do them with the injector adjustment in the parameters window.
NOTE:
The fit's ECU is VERY good at adjusting for wrong tuning settings. This usually doesn't make much difference, as long as you're running the right AFR's, but if your map is too rich or too lean, you'll throw a code. I threw P0171, fuel system TOO LEAN. So, even though I was running good AFR's, my fuel trims were off. So, I changed the AFTER injector size to 290cc from 310 in the parameters tab. This richened up my whole map, and no more codes!
Adjusting the Map Scale:
Now that you're looking at your I/J map, you'll notice that the scale might not be to your liking.
I set mine to go to 8psi on the lefthand column, and 7000 RPM on the top row. To do this, choose beginning and ending values (IE 0psi and 8psi) and use the "Interpolate Rows" or "Interpolate Columns" in the edit drop-down menu.
You only really need 1 or 2 rows for Vacuum (below 0Psi), so you can choose negative values for 1 or 2 rows, then make a row for 0, one at the end for 8Psi, and interpolate to make a smooth distribution. The RPM row at the top should be smooth, from 500 or so to 7000 or so rpm. Make sure to interpolate!
Now that you've made this change, save your map. Since you're connected in real-time, saving will update the main unit. If you're not sure, click the "update main unit" button at the top menu bar.
So, now that you've got a map, you need values. To be safe, I'd put 100's in the bottom left and bottom right (that would be 8Psi and 7000 rpm and 8Psi and 500 rpm). Now, select everything from 0psi at 500RPM all the way over to 8Psi and 7000rpm. Now, pull down the 'Edit' menu and select 'Interpolate 4 corners'.
Now, you have a boost map that should be workable. Make sure your E-manage is updated, and go for a drive. Your wideband (you DO have one, right?) should show the AFR oscillating around 14-15 at idle and while driving around.
On empty roads, do a few 3rd gear pulls if possible (higher gear = more load, and a slower pull so you have more time to see the AFR changes) while watching the AFRs. It might help to have someone in the car to help you watch things.
Now that you've seen how the AFR's are in boost, you can adjust. I had to pull fuel in high RPMs in boost, and pull a little more from the low rpms.
Make sure you interpolate your changes!
Now you can work with the timing maps. Read what artieman has talked about down at the bottom of this thread RE timing!
This is just a baseline guide for tuning. After playing with my map for an hour or two, I've got a map I'm really happy with. I'm running 12.5 Air:fuel in boost, and NO CODES!
Let me know if you guys have any suggestions for this, I'm hoping we can make a full guide for people to tune their own E-Manage. When I was learning, there was a disturbing lack of information on tuning the E-Manage.
Maybe once we've got this perfected, maybe we can get this stickied!
EDITS:
Extra tools, Datalogging:
Map trace:
By clicking the "Logger" drop down menu, and choosing "Map Trace," you can activate one of the E-Manage's Map Tracing feature. Here, the active cell in all active maps will be highlighted, so you (or your tuning assistant) can see what cell you are in when you need to make adjustments. This is really useful, as you know EXACTLY what the problem cell is.
Datalogging:
In the Logger drop-down menu, choose "datalog." This will open a new menu, where you can choose the time interval and channels for datalogging. When you press the START button, the unit will begin logging all selected parameters. This is especially useful when you connect your wideband to the E-Manage. You can log things like RPM, AFR, Injector Duty Cycle, and a whole mess of other parameters and look at the graph later.
Advanced Tactics:
This one was posted by artieman:
little lesson for you guys and gals...if you have a fuel ratio of 10.8:1 and want 12.5:1 whats the percent of adjustment...well the trick for this is have over want....you have 10.8:1 and want 12.5:1....so take 10.8 and divide it by 12.5...gives you 0.864....so take the fuel value in that cell...lets say its a value of 285 in the cell....take 285 and times it by 0.864 and thats your corrected value....can work for any value in the cell doesnt matter if its a value or time in ms
cell value of 285 give you 10.8:1 on a/f for that cell and you want 12.5:1.....take 285x0.864 and youll get 246.24 (just round it 246) and youll be about dead on for 12.5:1
some tuning systems also do it by a correction factor...where a value of 1 means no change...so if you have a value of 1 in that fuel cell and get 10.8:1 a/f ratio put 0.864 (or round it to 0.8) and it should put you at your target of 12.5:1
other systems do it by ms or milliseconds...time based...so if 11ms gives you 10.8 then take 11 and times it by 0.864 which is 9.504 or about 9.5ms to get 12.5:1
have/want ...easy to remember
^^
This is a much better method than guessing/checking like I did the first time around.
Below are a couple topics and pictures posted by artieman that might be helpful:
youll want to pull a couple degrees of timing in boost....i think the fit runs about 18 degrees at wot (wide open throttle) stock....in boost youll want to pregressively remove timing to your max boost level...
here is an example
this was a newer civic si with k series and greddy turbo kit i tuned....car made 238whp at 5.5psi
__________________________
yes partially correct....but the timing your adjusting is on top of the stock timing maps....the emanage is a piggy back system....
this is typically what a boosted timing map will look like...this is comparable to hondata which is not piggy back
If anyone has any contributions, post them here, and I'll add them to this post. Now let's all pull for this to get stickied! I think this could be of great help to the would-be tuners out there (like me).
Last edited by explosivpotato; 11-10-2008 at 01:34 AM.
#3
01-18-2009, 04:21 PM
Thanks Kyler!
Any way we can get this stickied? I know it's not in relation to the kit supplied by the sponsors of this forum, but I think it can be very helpful to aspiring do-it-yourselfers, or those who want an upgrade from the Kraftwerks factory-sealed SuperCard (what with the Hondata upgrade taking a million years to finish and all).
Chris?
Chris?
Beuller?
...Beuller?
Any way we can get this stickied? I know it's not in relation to the kit supplied by the sponsors of this forum, but I think it can be very helpful to aspiring do-it-yourselfers, or those who want an upgrade from the Kraftwerks factory-sealed SuperCard (what with the Hondata upgrade taking a million years to finish and all).
Chris?
Chris?
Beuller?
...Beuller?
#5
01-19-2009, 08:28 PM
the t1r kit comes with rc 330 injectors i believe. you would probably just need the ultimate box and a wiring harness. contact ben at aj racing for both. that will pretty much just change your hks kit into a t1r kit.
look here. this guy has the e-manage blue for sale.
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/sale...tml#post550474
look here. this guy has the e-manage blue for sale.
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/sale...tml#post550474
#6
01-19-2009, 08:36 PM
the t1r kit comes with rc 330 injectors i believe. you would probably just need the ultimate box and a wiring harness. contact ben at aj racing for both. that will pretty much just change your hks kit into a t1r kit.
look here. this guy has the e-manage blue for sale.
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/sale...tml#post550474
look here. this guy has the e-manage blue for sale.
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/sale...tml#post550474
#7
01-19-2009, 08:39 PM
it doesnt have as many tuning features as the ultimate is what i heard but i have no experience with either. i have my turbo kit coming with the ultimate cause aj racing found that the ultimate achieved higher hp numbers.
#8
01-19-2009, 09:00 PM
I just want to switch to EMU.
Is there a plug and play harness for the FiT like the HKS? where do i get a map from? which wideband works with EMU?
330ccinjector, which brand is that? how many horsepower is it good for?
The Fit still feels slow after turbo
Is there a plug and play harness for the FiT like the HKS? where do i get a map from? which wideband works with EMU?
330ccinjector, which brand is that? how many horsepower is it good for?
The Fit still feels slow after turbo
#9
01-19-2009, 09:25 PM
i think the injectors are rc engineering. the ultimate doesnt have a plug and play harness like hks. you gotta splice some wiring for the harness to work. contact aj racing for the map. aem uego wideband will work jus fine. the t1r kit on 6psi is running around 160 to 175hp i think.
#11
01-19-2009, 10:50 PM
Hey this is a great thread!
I have the E-manage Ultimate, but non-turbo. I am sure lots of this does not apply
I have the E-manage Ultimate, but non-turbo. I am sure lots of this does not apply
#12
01-20-2009, 12:34 AM
also tuning a motor (very basicly) is adjusting the amount of fuel going in for the amount of air going in...so if your supercharged turbo n/a bottle fed etc it all gets tuned the same way...
#13
01-19-2010, 05:06 PM
non turbo tuning with greddy emanage
will the greddy emanage blue/ultimate work on a non turbo, non supercharged engine? a buddy of mine is driving a 2001 hyundai tiburon, 4cyl 2.0 and he is looking to get more horsepower so i was planing on selling him my greddy emanage blue since i got the ultimate now. but i dont wanna sell him it if it dosent work, or will have no use.
thanks
thanks
#14
01-22-2010, 12:01 AM
i think the injectors are rc engineering. the ultimate doesnt have a plug and play harness like hks. you gotta splice some wiring for the harness to work. contact aj racing for the map. aem uego wideband will work jus fine. the t1r kit on 6psi is running around 160 to 175hp i think.
#15
07-04-2011, 12:49 PM
hey guys...im new to this forum and not of the same manufacture....i would like to know if i follow the tunning instructions word for word, number for number on a SUBARU WRX 2001 BUG EYE, i will be safe..or will i have to use different values and go about this different.
many thanks for any useful replies i get...
many thanks for any useful replies i get...
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