Rear Shocks - need a new design
#121
04-30-2008, 10:28 PM
Ivan,
Once again, good advice. I have grown to hate the time wasted in posting with imageshack. Will try Picasa for posting. Have used it to store photos for years, and did not realize that it would work to post photos on forums too.
Once again, good advice. I have grown to hate the time wasted in posting with imageshack. Will try Picasa for posting. Have used it to store photos for years, and did not realize that it would work to post photos on forums too.
#122
04-30-2008, 10:33 PM
To everybody following this thread, who has not yet bought either Monroe or Gabriel Air Shocks:
The OP, mahout, and several others who have followed his advice, have reported better ride characteristics with these shock absorbers, that are actually made for a cheap Chevy FWD car. I have not finished my installation yet, but am confident that the ride itself will be improved. The added advantage of being able to adjust ride height to compensate for occasional heavy loads, is a very good bonus when you consider the low price of these shocks. I paid abut $75.00 for the set through Amazon.com. As I previously posted, I will post a "DIY with photos, because this is not just a simple replacement of stock rear shock absorbers. There is a lot of "adapting" involved.
But with the dual advantages of these rear shocks, coupled with the improved ride quality and handling of some brand of "soon to come" to market of front struts, the handling and utility of the Honda Fit may be in the "unbeatable" category in the near future.
Woops! 'Scuse me. Radareclipse was the OP!
The OP, mahout, and several others who have followed his advice, have reported better ride characteristics with these shock absorbers, that are actually made for a cheap Chevy FWD car. I have not finished my installation yet, but am confident that the ride itself will be improved. The added advantage of being able to adjust ride height to compensate for occasional heavy loads, is a very good bonus when you consider the low price of these shocks. I paid abut $75.00 for the set through Amazon.com. As I previously posted, I will post a "DIY with photos, because this is not just a simple replacement of stock rear shock absorbers. There is a lot of "adapting" involved.
But with the dual advantages of these rear shocks, coupled with the improved ride quality and handling of some brand of "soon to come" to market of front struts, the handling and utility of the Honda Fit may be in the "unbeatable" category in the near future.
Woops! 'Scuse me. Radareclipse was the OP!
Last edited by manxman; 04-30-2008 at 10:51 PM.
#123
05-01-2008, 05:14 PM
Okay, got the air lines connected, wheels on, and took a short test drive. It was all worth the effort. The rear end feels much more solid without being harsh. The high frequency vibration after hitting road seams at speed is gone and the rear suspension does not feel "busy" as it did before. It feels as if the rear of the car suddenly weighs a few hundred pounds more, like the difference you feel when a large passenger sits in the back seat after you have been driving alone.
I will try to get a DIY posted up over the weekend, which will be detailed with a lot of photos. Just in case anyone has recently obtained these shocks and is waiting to install them later, here's a suggestion. Go to your local Home Depot or Ace Hardware store, and buy a roll of 2-3" wide Stainless Steel tape (in the HVAC dept. It is used by furnace and a/c repairmen to join duct work together). This is the new "duct tape" except that it never falls apart, is waterproof, and never comes off. You will need it to keep the air lines from getting snagged on road debris or coming loose and rubbing on your wheels and tires.
I will try to get a DIY posted up over the weekend, which will be detailed with a lot of photos. Just in case anyone has recently obtained these shocks and is waiting to install them later, here's a suggestion. Go to your local Home Depot or Ace Hardware store, and buy a roll of 2-3" wide Stainless Steel tape (in the HVAC dept. It is used by furnace and a/c repairmen to join duct work together). This is the new "duct tape" except that it never falls apart, is waterproof, and never comes off. You will need it to keep the air lines from getting snagged on road debris or coming loose and rubbing on your wheels and tires.
#124
05-02-2008, 03:10 AM
Skimmer,
The tubular bushing on the stock shock is so light in weight that it must be either aluminum or a zinc alloy, and therefor soft. It smears all over the threads on the steel shock studs as you screw them off the studs. I was trying to keep from damaging the stock shocks, just in case the air shocks don't work properly. If I need to use them again, I will just chase the stud threads with a die to clean them up.
The fitment of the stock shocks is downright weird compared to every other shock absorber that I have worked on in 40 years. The stock studs are actually the same size as the studs on the Monroes. Whoever made the stock shocks just kept adding bushings and strange rubber pads the size of dough-nuts just to make them fit the huge holes in the Fit body. I am adding this to my list of gripes about some of the "oddities" in the overall design of the Fit.
Whoever the other member is who complained about noise, and talked about using Teflon tape around the air shock studs to make them fit, if you go back and use the metal bushings and mounting rubber pads from the stock shocks, your problems will be gone. Your comments about these things really puzzled me until I saw the difference between the stock shocks and the after-market air shocks. I will post photos later to show future buyers of air shocks what they should know about the installation. Also, will show what the "bump stops" are hidden inside the stock shock absorbers.
With air shocks, you don't need plastic "bump" stops built into the shock absorbers to limit compression to avoid breaking your springs on hard compressions. With air shocks, your "bump stops" are the rubber sleeves full of air that extend the length of the shocks when pressurized to compensate for heavy loads. If you keep the air shocks with the minimum recommended pressure of 20 psi, that air pressure keeps your rear suspension from bottoming out.
The tubular bushing on the stock shock is so light in weight that it must be either aluminum or a zinc alloy, and therefor soft. It smears all over the threads on the steel shock studs as you screw them off the studs. I was trying to keep from damaging the stock shocks, just in case the air shocks don't work properly. If I need to use them again, I will just chase the stud threads with a die to clean them up.
The fitment of the stock shocks is downright weird compared to every other shock absorber that I have worked on in 40 years. The stock studs are actually the same size as the studs on the Monroes. Whoever made the stock shocks just kept adding bushings and strange rubber pads the size of dough-nuts just to make them fit the huge holes in the Fit body. I am adding this to my list of gripes about some of the "oddities" in the overall design of the Fit.
Whoever the other member is who complained about noise, and talked about using Teflon tape around the air shock studs to make them fit, if you go back and use the metal bushings and mounting rubber pads from the stock shocks, your problems will be gone. Your comments about these things really puzzled me until I saw the difference between the stock shocks and the after-market air shocks. I will post photos later to show future buyers of air shocks what they should know about the installation. Also, will show what the "bump stops" are hidden inside the stock shock absorbers.
With air shocks, you don't need plastic "bump" stops built into the shock absorbers to limit compression to avoid breaking your springs on hard compressions. With air shocks, your "bump stops" are the rubber sleeves full of air that extend the length of the shocks when pressurized to compensate for heavy loads. If you keep the air shocks with the minimum recommended pressure of 20 psi, that air pressure keeps your rear suspension from bottoming out.
The reason why the smaller Monroe lower bushing makes noise is you have the shock tightented too much. If you back off the top mount nuts and bounce the car to settle the suspension, start tightening and stop when the top bushing starts to compress outwards - thus filling the entire hole where the bushing sits, the noise is now gone and has been gone since I've done that a few weeks ago. I think the smaller Monroe bushing that is on the bottom can't handle being overtightened. I think I saw a torque spec somewhere near 25ftlbs (cavalier spec) and that's not tight at all... Congrats on getting it in! You'll love them!
It feels like a whole-different car! They should do these for the new-gen civics that looks like their lowered with 2 people in the backseat... hahahaha!
Last edited by SSM0423; 05-02-2008 at 03:18 AM.
#125
05-19-2008, 12:29 AM
Manxman, I've been busy and had some surgery besides. I haven't been following this thread for a little while. I just got my car out from it's cozy winter hiding spot. My goal is to get the suspension changes done this week by my mechanic. I have to do a show next weekend in Brooklyn and the roads are so bad that I can't do it unless I change out from my current suspension nightmare.
If you want, PM me your email address and I'll send you mine. Then you can email me some pics and I'll post them up for all the see. If you have time.
If you want, PM me your email address and I'll send you mine. Then you can email me some pics and I'll post them up for all the see. If you have time.
#126
05-19-2008, 11:18 AM
Manxman, I've been busy and had some surgery besides. I haven't been following this thread for a little while. I just got my car out from it's cozy winter hiding spot. My goal is to get the suspension changes done this week by my mechanic. I have to do a show next weekend in Brooklyn and the roads are so bad that I can't do it unless I change out from my current suspension nightmare.
If you want, PM me your email address and I'll send you mine. Then you can email me some pics and I'll post them up for all the see. If you have time.
If you want, PM me your email address and I'll send you mine. Then you can email me some pics and I'll post them up for all the see. If you have time.
Sorry to hear about the surgery and I hope that the recovery is quick. I will PM the email info, for future reference, but I have already posted my photos in a new DIY thread so there is no need for you to repeat the effort. Here's the new thread link:
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-...-w-photos.html
Your mechanic will probably try to "save you money" by only using the mounting parts that come with the Monroe shocks, but it will be worth some extra cost if you insist that he take apart the stock Honda shocks to retrieve the metal bushings on the studs, and re-use the stock rubber pads and all of the stock washer/retainers.
Last edited by manxman; 05-21-2008 at 05:57 PM.
#127
05-19-2008, 10:54 PM
Please see the DIY Thread - I had some weird rubbing noises the other day when going over some uneven dips on the freeway.. I read the DIY article and low-and-behold - the Cavalier bushings I used on the bottom-end of the top shock mount(s) were cut almost in half! I took MANXMAN's advice and took off the OE SLeeve from the OE shocks and reused the OE bottom bushings and we're AOK. Thanks for the detailed write-up!
#128
05-31-2008, 05:02 PM
I am doing a somewhat heavy stereo install in my Fit. I'm adding a few hundred pounds (300 including small batteries, wiring, sound deadening, amps, subs and enclosure). So, this has to be accounted for with my suspension.
I spent some time analzying the rear suspension today. I ordered new stock struts for the front, a rear shock sample and a rear coil spring. I will be sending these pieces out to be Dyno'd, and then end up with custom struts and shocks. I will know soon what I'm doing with the rear springs.
For the front springs, I'm using the TR1's, v1 (less drop on the rear spring).
I loaded the car up with an approximate of equipment and ended up dropping the rear about two inches. This is pathetic. I can't leave the stock spring in, because it's too soft. The rear shock is a real issue as well.
The length of the rear shock out of the car from the top washer to the center line of the bottom mounting bolt is 20.75 inches. Compressed is 17.75 in. I couldn't believe how easy I could compress the shock with my hands!!!
With no extra weight in the car, the resting length of the shock was 18.625 inches. This means that there is just under an inch of compression available before the shock "sinks the pink".
What I'm looking for is an strong increase in compression, perhaps an increase in stroke, and significant increase in rebound over the stock shock.
I have taken this road before with another Honda so this isn't new to me.
I'm am probably going to put the rear T1R spring in even thou it lowers the car, so I can see what it does. It has significantly more spring rate, so as I load the car, perhaps it will resist sagging. Otherwise, I'll have a custom rear spring made, but that one will really cost (probably what the two struts and two shocks will cost combined).
For those of you who want to replace your struts and shocks, I may have an option for you in about a month. AJ Racing might have something by then as well but we will see.
Best regards to those who feel the bumps everyday.
I spent some time analzying the rear suspension today. I ordered new stock struts for the front, a rear shock sample and a rear coil spring. I will be sending these pieces out to be Dyno'd, and then end up with custom struts and shocks. I will know soon what I'm doing with the rear springs.
For the front springs, I'm using the TR1's, v1 (less drop on the rear spring).
I loaded the car up with an approximate of equipment and ended up dropping the rear about two inches. This is pathetic. I can't leave the stock spring in, because it's too soft. The rear shock is a real issue as well.
The length of the rear shock out of the car from the top washer to the center line of the bottom mounting bolt is 20.75 inches. Compressed is 17.75 in. I couldn't believe how easy I could compress the shock with my hands!!!
With no extra weight in the car, the resting length of the shock was 18.625 inches. This means that there is just under an inch of compression available before the shock "sinks the pink".
What I'm looking for is an strong increase in compression, perhaps an increase in stroke, and significant increase in rebound over the stock shock.
I have taken this road before with another Honda so this isn't new to me.
I'm am probably going to put the rear T1R spring in even thou it lowers the car, so I can see what it does. It has significantly more spring rate, so as I load the car, perhaps it will resist sagging. Otherwise, I'll have a custom rear spring made, but that one will really cost (probably what the two struts and two shocks will cost combined).
For those of you who want to replace your struts and shocks, I may have an option for you in about a month. AJ Racing might have something by then as well but we will see.
Best regards to those who feel the bumps everyday.
#129
05-31-2008, 11:46 PM
So far I have tried:
1) had made custom front struts and rear shocks, however the guy doing it has had major health problems and I'm out a bunch of money on this one without the OEM parts I sent him and don't have any parts to show for it.
2) KW coilovers - hated them.
3) Eibach front coils/Tokico struts with T1R rear coils/Monroe air shocks. While the Monroe's provide some real shocking power in the rear, the Tokico's are way to soft and create a little bob action front to rear. I think what might be a little bit of an issue is with the extra weight in the car, the Monroe might be holding up the car a little more than normal over the effort of the T1R rear coilspring.
4) Looks like I'm going to try the Skunk2 Pro-C's for all around. However I'll probably keep the Monroe's on for now because the air lines are run really well. I think they'll match up well with the adjustable front coilovers from Skunk.
Keep in mind, when friends ride along in your FIT in the backseat, you will come close to experiencing what I am just with the stereo. Food for thought
Thanks mahout for keeping this alive.
1) had made custom front struts and rear shocks, however the guy doing it has had major health problems and I'm out a bunch of money on this one without the OEM parts I sent him and don't have any parts to show for it.
2) KW coilovers - hated them.
3) Eibach front coils/Tokico struts with T1R rear coils/Monroe air shocks. While the Monroe's provide some real shocking power in the rear, the Tokico's are way to soft and create a little bob action front to rear. I think what might be a little bit of an issue is with the extra weight in the car, the Monroe might be holding up the car a little more than normal over the effort of the T1R rear coilspring.
4) Looks like I'm going to try the Skunk2 Pro-C's for all around. However I'll probably keep the Monroe's on for now because the air lines are run really well. I think they'll match up well with the adjustable front coilovers from Skunk.
Keep in mind, when friends ride along in your FIT in the backseat, you will come close to experiencing what I am just with the stereo. Food for thought
Thanks mahout for keeping this alive.
#130
06-01-2013, 12:03 PM
To everybody following this thread, who has not yet bought either Monroe or Gabriel Air Shocks:
The OP, mahout, and several others who have followed his advice, have reported better ride characteristics with these shock absorbers, that are actually made for a cheap Chevy FWD car. I have not finished my installation yet, but am confident that the ride itself will be improved. The added advantage of being able to adjust ride height to compensate for occasional heavy loads, is a very good bonus when you consider the low price of these shocks. I paid abut $75.00 for the set through Amazon.com. As I previously posted, I will post a "DIY with photos, because this is not just a simple replacement of stock rear shock absorbers. There is a lot of "adapting" involved.
But with the dual advantages of these rear shocks, coupled with the improved ride quality and handling of some brand of "soon to come" to market of front struts, the handling and utility of the Honda Fit may be in the "unbeatable" category in the near future.
Woops! 'Scuse me. Radareclipse was the OP!
The OP, mahout, and several others who have followed his advice, have reported better ride characteristics with these shock absorbers, that are actually made for a cheap Chevy FWD car. I have not finished my installation yet, but am confident that the ride itself will be improved. The added advantage of being able to adjust ride height to compensate for occasional heavy loads, is a very good bonus when you consider the low price of these shocks. I paid abut $75.00 for the set through Amazon.com. As I previously posted, I will post a "DIY with photos, because this is not just a simple replacement of stock rear shock absorbers. There is a lot of "adapting" involved.
But with the dual advantages of these rear shocks, coupled with the improved ride quality and handling of some brand of "soon to come" to market of front struts, the handling and utility of the Honda Fit may be in the "unbeatable" category in the near future.
Woops! 'Scuse me. Radareclipse was the OP!
We've been donig this since the early seventies. The first for a competition vehicle was a Nissan 240 back in mid seventies, all without problems.
The biggest concern is proper routing of the air lines; we use the self adhesive squeeze clips (spring loaded) to secure the lines that seems to be best.
gopod luck.
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