Spring Comparision
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 549
From: Dublin, CA., USA
IMO, how to pick springs as a novice
Guys,
first and foremost you need to figure out what uses are you planing for your Fit. Are you daily driving(DD) it only, or do you plan to AutoX or track it on weekends? Or is it a weekend track car only!
Here is the book sized edition!
#1 get Progress rear sway bar to reduce understeer. Sway bar will increase rear ratio in cornering only, so comfort won't be affected at all!
To understand anything first please distinguish between these two terms: spring rate and front to rear spring ratio! Rate is how stiff springs are(comfort level), while ratio is balance between udersteer and oversteer.
If you do not won't to drop your car much, do not worry about it for a moment. I will explain why down this post!
I am talking springs only and as I stated before even OEM springs would benefit greatly from adjustable dampers.
On a smallest budget:
If you are only DD pick the softest/closest to stock possible set up from the stiffness chart! You will still gain a lot of cornering ability, reduce body roll to a minimum and still keep your significant others riding in the car happy. In this category Progress wins hands down since they are by far most affordable.
If you are going to AutoX, pick something with the highest rear to front ratio from the chart (2.0 or higher) to get you as much oversteer as possible. In AutoX on front wheel drive car when rear starts sliding in the corners you will floor it instead of braking to straighten the car up! Braking will produce slower times! While DD, throw a case of water or some other ballast to soften rear end to satisfy passenger comfort. If Progress with a ratio of 1.25 (BTW, same ratio as OEM springs) and a rear sway bar still understeers(according to EXWRX), you need springs with a ratio of at least 1.50 or higher and a rear sway bar! Without rear sway bar you need to get a ratio of 2.0 or higher for sure!
I do not know at what ratio, with or without rear sway bar, Fit has neutral balance (in between understeer and oversteer)! I would like to know, so if you AutoX or drove on the track please let us know!
In general, if your AutoX set up still understeers, inflate rear tires to a maximum allowable pressure as posted on the sidewall of your tires. From there, if you gained too much oversteer keep drooping rear tire pressure 2psi at the time until you achieve desired balance.
Personally, on a front wheel drive, I like to be able just to lift of the gas in the corner for the rear to start sliding wide. How much lift off depends on how tight corners are! The tighter the corners the more oversteer effect I prefer.
On higher to unlimited budget:
#1 You can pick something with stiffer rates from the chart and throw more ballast on the back, or have spare softer rear coils and change them in 10 minutes with a floor jack and a single wrench!
#2 Get Ground Control coil over sleeves kit (or put a sleeve kit together yourself-more on it latter) and pick spring ratios you can live with.
#3 Ultimate comfort with ultimate handling: same as #2, but source out tenders (helper springs) from Eibach or H&R with rates about 20lbs/in softer than OEM spring rates!!! I am not talking about the type of helper spring that collapses under the weight of the car (20-50 lbs/in rate) and prevents main spring from popping out when you lift the car of the ground! I am talking about tender (70-90 lb/in front & 100-130 lb/in rear) springs that would actually provide 1-2" of soft comfort travel before stiff main springs start working! This is what only Kg/mm brand managed to pull of in a single coil by combining two distinctly different spring rates by altering wire thickness! I have personal experience with this brand and still have them. This is also how Carrera Cup, touring cars and others solve handling on bumpy tracks. It is expensive proposition (each tender is $35-55 MSRP and you need 4 of them plus adapters). It is the ultimate set up even with adjustable dampers hands down because not even tracks are that smooth as you expect them to be! You will climb curbs on track!
Sample of motorcycle triple(!) spring set up:
Collapsible helper springs on top, soft comfort coils with travel in the middle and main race stiff coil on the bottom.
Now about height adjustments on springs that are too low for your taste.
It will cost some money.
If you would like to spend a minimum there are "spacers" in thickness from 1/2" to 2" or higher. They are either to be installed between a spring and top or bottom damper perch(these can also be made out of metal) or within coil itself(rubber or polyurethane only). If they are dual grooved so springs sit in them nice and you should squeeze them between "dead" coils on your springs. You know the part of the spring that coils are completely compressed while weight of the car rest on the tires. This way you gain height without affecting spring travel and performance. If you put them wrong, between "working" part of the spring you will eliminate spring travel and have a ride as if there are no springs and dampers on the car.
DO NOT GET "TWIST IN" TYPE METAL SPACERS OR SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE IGNITION WIRE SEPARATORS. THEY WILL DAMAGE SPRINGS AND/OR FALL OUT! THEY ARE NOT SAFE!
YOU NEED FULL 360* SUPPORT BETWEEN YOUR SPRING AND A SPACER!
Sample inserts:
Top or bottom perch at spring end(note a "step" to accommodate end of the coil end which is what Fit coils have)
Below: in between coils type insert
Expensive way is to get threaded coil over inserts from Ground Control or from Koni, Bilstein, AFCO,.....
Sample:
Coil Over Sleeves - summitracing.com Use part numbers to hunt for internet bargains!
Buying a coil over kit on e-bay might be the cheapest way, but they are not the best quality and might rust.
Sample pic of Skunk2 coil over kit:
IMPORTANT for coil over sleeve kits: Front kits: For sleeves that "rest" on the top of the damper body where rod protrudes out, measure length of OEM dampers from bottom spring perch to the top of the damper body(where rod protrudes out)! Sleeves come in different length!
For sleeves that just sit on the bottom spring perch, just pick sleeve length that can raise car enough to your taste. Rear Fit kits and some front Fit kits.
Kits are universal so measure damper body diameter and/or perch diameter!
At the end I am surre I confused as many of you as I helped with more info and choices. Oh, well as long as I helped somebody.
Ivan
first and foremost you need to figure out what uses are you planing for your Fit. Are you daily driving(DD) it only, or do you plan to AutoX or track it on weekends? Or is it a weekend track car only!
Here is the book sized edition!
#1 get Progress rear sway bar to reduce understeer. Sway bar will increase rear ratio in cornering only, so comfort won't be affected at all!
To understand anything first please distinguish between these two terms: spring rate and front to rear spring ratio! Rate is how stiff springs are(comfort level), while ratio is balance between udersteer and oversteer.
If you do not won't to drop your car much, do not worry about it for a moment. I will explain why down this post!
I am talking springs only and as I stated before even OEM springs would benefit greatly from adjustable dampers.
On a smallest budget:
If you are only DD pick the softest/closest to stock possible set up from the stiffness chart! You will still gain a lot of cornering ability, reduce body roll to a minimum and still keep your significant others riding in the car happy. In this category Progress wins hands down since they are by far most affordable.
If you are going to AutoX, pick something with the highest rear to front ratio from the chart (2.0 or higher) to get you as much oversteer as possible. In AutoX on front wheel drive car when rear starts sliding in the corners you will floor it instead of braking to straighten the car up! Braking will produce slower times! While DD, throw a case of water or some other ballast to soften rear end to satisfy passenger comfort. If Progress with a ratio of 1.25 (BTW, same ratio as OEM springs) and a rear sway bar still understeers(according to EXWRX), you need springs with a ratio of at least 1.50 or higher and a rear sway bar! Without rear sway bar you need to get a ratio of 2.0 or higher for sure!
I do not know at what ratio, with or without rear sway bar, Fit has neutral balance (in between understeer and oversteer)! I would like to know, so if you AutoX or drove on the track please let us know!
In general, if your AutoX set up still understeers, inflate rear tires to a maximum allowable pressure as posted on the sidewall of your tires. From there, if you gained too much oversteer keep drooping rear tire pressure 2psi at the time until you achieve desired balance.
Personally, on a front wheel drive, I like to be able just to lift of the gas in the corner for the rear to start sliding wide. How much lift off depends on how tight corners are! The tighter the corners the more oversteer effect I prefer.
On higher to unlimited budget:
#1 You can pick something with stiffer rates from the chart and throw more ballast on the back, or have spare softer rear coils and change them in 10 minutes with a floor jack and a single wrench!
#2 Get Ground Control coil over sleeves kit (or put a sleeve kit together yourself-more on it latter) and pick spring ratios you can live with.
#3 Ultimate comfort with ultimate handling: same as #2, but source out tenders (helper springs) from Eibach or H&R with rates about 20lbs/in softer than OEM spring rates!!! I am not talking about the type of helper spring that collapses under the weight of the car (20-50 lbs/in rate) and prevents main spring from popping out when you lift the car of the ground! I am talking about tender (70-90 lb/in front & 100-130 lb/in rear) springs that would actually provide 1-2" of soft comfort travel before stiff main springs start working! This is what only Kg/mm brand managed to pull of in a single coil by combining two distinctly different spring rates by altering wire thickness! I have personal experience with this brand and still have them. This is also how Carrera Cup, touring cars and others solve handling on bumpy tracks. It is expensive proposition (each tender is $35-55 MSRP and you need 4 of them plus adapters). It is the ultimate set up even with adjustable dampers hands down because not even tracks are that smooth as you expect them to be! You will climb curbs on track!
Sample of motorcycle triple(!) spring set up:
Collapsible helper springs on top, soft comfort coils with travel in the middle and main race stiff coil on the bottom.
Now about height adjustments on springs that are too low for your taste.
It will cost some money.
If you would like to spend a minimum there are "spacers" in thickness from 1/2" to 2" or higher. They are either to be installed between a spring and top or bottom damper perch(these can also be made out of metal) or within coil itself(rubber or polyurethane only). If they are dual grooved so springs sit in them nice and you should squeeze them between "dead" coils on your springs. You know the part of the spring that coils are completely compressed while weight of the car rest on the tires. This way you gain height without affecting spring travel and performance. If you put them wrong, between "working" part of the spring you will eliminate spring travel and have a ride as if there are no springs and dampers on the car.
DO NOT GET "TWIST IN" TYPE METAL SPACERS OR SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE IGNITION WIRE SEPARATORS. THEY WILL DAMAGE SPRINGS AND/OR FALL OUT! THEY ARE NOT SAFE!
YOU NEED FULL 360* SUPPORT BETWEEN YOUR SPRING AND A SPACER!
Sample inserts:
Top or bottom perch at spring end(note a "step" to accommodate end of the coil end which is what Fit coils have)
Below: in between coils type insert
Expensive way is to get threaded coil over inserts from Ground Control or from Koni, Bilstein, AFCO,.....
Sample:
Coil Over Sleeves - summitracing.com Use part numbers to hunt for internet bargains!
Buying a coil over kit on e-bay might be the cheapest way, but they are not the best quality and might rust.
Sample pic of Skunk2 coil over kit:
IMPORTANT for coil over sleeve kits: Front kits: For sleeves that "rest" on the top of the damper body where rod protrudes out, measure length of OEM dampers from bottom spring perch to the top of the damper body(where rod protrudes out)! Sleeves come in different length!
For sleeves that just sit on the bottom spring perch, just pick sleeve length that can raise car enough to your taste. Rear Fit kits and some front Fit kits.
Kits are universal so measure damper body diameter and/or perch diameter!
At the end I am surre I confused as many of you as I helped with more info and choices. Oh, well as long as I helped somebody.
Ivan
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 549
From: Dublin, CA., USA
LOL! Just trying to help and prevent people from learning on their own through their wallet!
I wish I knew 15-20 years ago when I started AutoX in Souther Cali what I know now. I blew so much hard earned cash shopping brands instead of specs. Could have cost me limbs or my life "testing" my set up on Angeles Crest Hwy and Mulholland and it's tributaries at 2am! Not to mention I could have hurt somebody else. My CRX paid the price for me. I tore off 1/4 of it on Decker Canyon. Entire rear right side and rear floor.
So stupid!
Guys, go Autocrossing to push your limits and to learn how to handle your cars. It will make you a much better daily driver, anticipate danger and avoid it.
I said it before and I will say it again. AutoX should be mandatory during driver training for 15-16 year olds. It would save so many lives.
I wish I knew 15-20 years ago when I started AutoX in Souther Cali what I know now. I blew so much hard earned cash shopping brands instead of specs. Could have cost me limbs or my life "testing" my set up on Angeles Crest Hwy and Mulholland and it's tributaries at 2am! Not to mention I could have hurt somebody else. My CRX paid the price for me. I tore off 1/4 of it on Decker Canyon. Entire rear right side and rear floor.
So stupid!
Guys, go Autocrossing to push your limits and to learn how to handle your cars. It will make you a much better daily driver, anticipate danger and avoid it.
I said it before and I will say it again. AutoX should be mandatory during driver training for 15-16 year olds. It would save so many lives.
LOL! Just trying to help and prevent people from learning on their own through their wallet!
I wish I knew 15-20 years ago when I started AutoX in Souther Cali what I know now. I blew so much hard earned cash shopping brands instead of specs. Could have cost me limbs or my life "testing" my set up on Angeles Crest Hwy and Mulholland and it's tributaries at 2am! Not to mention I could have hurt somebody else. My CRX paid the price for me. I tore off 1/4 of it on Decker Canyon. Entire rear right side and rear floor.
So stupid!
Guys, go Autocrossing to push your limits and to learn how to handle your cars. It will make you a much better daily driver, anticipate danger and avoid it.
I said it before and I will say it again. AutoX should be mandatory during driver training for 15-16 year olds. It would save so many lives.
I wish I knew 15-20 years ago when I started AutoX in Souther Cali what I know now. I blew so much hard earned cash shopping brands instead of specs. Could have cost me limbs or my life "testing" my set up on Angeles Crest Hwy and Mulholland and it's tributaries at 2am! Not to mention I could have hurt somebody else. My CRX paid the price for me. I tore off 1/4 of it on Decker Canyon. Entire rear right side and rear floor.
So stupid!
Guys, go Autocrossing to push your limits and to learn how to handle your cars. It will make you a much better daily driver, anticipate danger and avoid it.
I said it before and I will say it again. AutoX should be mandatory during driver training for 15-16 year olds. It would save so many lives.
ivan: great post. not planning on autox (would love to) but your DD info was priceless! now i've got swift, progress and the mugen to decide on! and the prsb is def on the short list as my first upgrade! That and maybe some new tires or rims/tires would help worlds!
Kennef: thanks for the link, after reading the description, i confirmed it is in fact the same ones that king sells.
so what of your pics?
Kennef: thanks for the link, after reading the description, i confirmed it is in fact the same ones that king sells.
so what of your pics?
well the swifts are on.
as far as negative camber, i am still on stock alignment specs. my goal is to achieve greater steady state cornering limits on tires that i plan on using later in the year that respond nicely to some camber.
i unfortunately have to hold out on the review of my swifts. when it comes to being a mechanic, i'm made of fail, and right now i have some clunking up front that so i'm more interested in figuring out what part of the re-install i messed up.
for now, i'll say that the springs are a lot more compliant than i thought they would be. the only reason i even tried to install them myself was to figure out how to reinstall the stock springs to save on future labor costs.
so far she thinks the ride is fine, and we don't plan on changing back so i'm lucky. i have to say, i really expected to cut it close on the tolerable edge of DD for her but so far we both agree the swifts don't toe that line at all.
i can't fairly rate these in the subjective handling area. i don't have the seat time in them yet. once i un-stupid my install, the car will be put through real tomfoolery. i can tell this much, though - the car could really use some camber up front and more exciting tire. and i didn't have to turn into my driveway any differently even though it is about an inch lower.
as far as negative camber, i am still on stock alignment specs. my goal is to achieve greater steady state cornering limits on tires that i plan on using later in the year that respond nicely to some camber.
i unfortunately have to hold out on the review of my swifts. when it comes to being a mechanic, i'm made of fail, and right now i have some clunking up front that so i'm more interested in figuring out what part of the re-install i messed up.
for now, i'll say that the springs are a lot more compliant than i thought they would be. the only reason i even tried to install them myself was to figure out how to reinstall the stock springs to save on future labor costs.
so far she thinks the ride is fine, and we don't plan on changing back so i'm lucky. i have to say, i really expected to cut it close on the tolerable edge of DD for her but so far we both agree the swifts don't toe that line at all.
i can't fairly rate these in the subjective handling area. i don't have the seat time in them yet. once i un-stupid my install, the car will be put through real tomfoolery. i can tell this much, though - the car could really use some camber up front and more exciting tire. and i didn't have to turn into my driveway any differently even though it is about an inch lower.
i really can't wait for a full on review and some pics.
reasons:
1. the swifts (according to what you said before this and what the table ciburri posted says) seem to have some pretty extreme ratios between the front and the back: and everyone has been saying having a really stiff rear is not good for a DD or highway comfort.
2. the lower the car by not too much, and while (again according to the graph) the progress seems to be not that extreme in its settings, i'm afraid it will drop the car too much and then not offer enough performance.
but then you have gone on to say that you don't find the swifts to be that bad at all and doable for a daily d? oh man kennef fill us in!
how do you think aftermarket dampers would effect the ride/handling balance with the swifts?
either way, great write up and i applaud all your guys' work on this. it really helps to answer a lot of the questions out there...at least for me, you've helped me decide that the progress springs are the best choice for my apllication, just as i suspected since page 1.
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 428
From: Livermore, CA
The Progress rear sway does cause a slight increase in ride stiffness over uneven bumps, but it has so many other positives that a very subtle increase in ride stiffness is forgotten in the improved cornering and the better tracking in crosswinds.
You notice the slight increase in stiffness for about the first 5 minutes of your first test drive, then you are so in love with the overall improvements, you get used to the slight change and never notice again. when you drove your Fit home from the dealer, did you say "Wow, this car sure is smooth when it rolls over bumps on only one side!"?. No, you didn't.
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 116
From: SoCal
yes the fit rides rough as is from factory. trying to find supereb handling and luxury comfort is a self defeating process. we are driving hondas not a benz or bmw. so i would say go for the stiffer ride if it improves handling. your other option is comfort= not as good handling. the ride in my slammed teg was tolerable for dd by my self, but the wife hated it. she is ok with the fit now im sure she is gonna hate it once i get the rear sway and springs.
anyone have any experience with the swift race springs?
anyone have any experience with the swift race springs?
Last edited by smirff07; Jan 31, 2008 at 11:50 AM.
just saying, that the statement "comfort won't be effected at all" should be taken losely...especially for these NJ roads
i checked out the sticky on suspension mods four our car, and someone was kind enough to post what the drops looked like using some other folk's cars...
and they had the spoons. the spoons don't lower that much, its suppossed to be like 1.2 in the front and 1.0 in the rear. but the picture is on a jdm fit, and i don't know what size rims he was running. but it looked nice, if a little low for my tastes, which makes me wonder if its the classic case lowering more than advertised. (don't know if he had matching spoon dampers either.)
the swift was a very nice drop too...but it sure as heck didn't look like a very small drop, which is what everyone here is saying it should be. later on in that thread, someone mentioned that these swifts may in fact be for the jdm spec fits...and hence lower A lot more than advertised. again, it looked really nice, about as low as the spoons.
the progress pic looked good too...i just hated the rims on the car featured and i think they were seventeens so the lowered effect was greatly exaggerated. but it didn't look any lower than the spoons or swifts, maybe only slightly.
if this is the case, how low we go seems to not matter, because regardless of what manufacturers post, it look like the drop is all very similar. now its a matter of spring rates!
on a side note, mugen dom posted pics of his mugen suspension, and apparently it gives the 'nose to the ground look' slight lowering in the front and barely anything in the back. (springs are not progressive either.)
oh decisions! this is def. going to be the most stressful choice when mods commence on my car!
eldaino, sorry brotha, these last two days have been more than i can handle. i did get a chance to drive the car again, and i have a few nuances to report on.
turn-in, turn-in, turn-in. it wasn't exactly a problem to begin with, but now it's stronger. for a DD, leaving everything stock (alignment, dampers, tires) i think the swifts have a great balance. in fact, i would highlight that the initial turn-in is very satisfying, balanced with the lack of negative camber up front ultimately limiting front end grip. the result is predictable understeer. you just have to be going faster to get to that point. highlighting the 3k/5k front-rear rates as the greatest f/r difference has its place, but isn't as severe as the percentage would make it seem. 3k/5k is still pretty soft and this car really just goes from understeer to less understeer.
it highlights the serious need for more camber up front to achieve more grip up front, btw. i can't wait to break some porsches off at their local PCA autocross.
i would also point out that these are linear. if you like consistent, predictable handling, linear springs are a step up from progressives, but again, this is just my amateur opinion.
i'm definitely sticking to my first impressions about these being appropriate for DD in the ride and clearance departments.
wife seriously loves them. says the car is less sensitive to cross winds. we had 35 knot winds the other day. has yet to even mention the difference in harshness.
unfortunately, i haven't put the car through its paces yet. so as far as dampers are concerned, i can't rightfully say. over some of the bumps, though, ride seemed better controlled than stock. as though the stock springs just may have been too soft to begin with...
turn-in, turn-in, turn-in. it wasn't exactly a problem to begin with, but now it's stronger. for a DD, leaving everything stock (alignment, dampers, tires) i think the swifts have a great balance. in fact, i would highlight that the initial turn-in is very satisfying, balanced with the lack of negative camber up front ultimately limiting front end grip. the result is predictable understeer. you just have to be going faster to get to that point. highlighting the 3k/5k front-rear rates as the greatest f/r difference has its place, but isn't as severe as the percentage would make it seem. 3k/5k is still pretty soft and this car really just goes from understeer to less understeer.
it highlights the serious need for more camber up front to achieve more grip up front, btw. i can't wait to break some porsches off at their local PCA autocross.
i would also point out that these are linear. if you like consistent, predictable handling, linear springs are a step up from progressives, but again, this is just my amateur opinion.
i'm definitely sticking to my first impressions about these being appropriate for DD in the ride and clearance departments.
wife seriously loves them. says the car is less sensitive to cross winds. we had 35 knot winds the other day. has yet to even mention the difference in harshness.
unfortunately, i haven't put the car through its paces yet. so as far as dampers are concerned, i can't rightfully say. over some of the bumps, though, ride seemed better controlled than stock. as though the stock springs just may have been too soft to begin with...
eldaino, sorry brotha, these last two days have been more than i can handle. i did get a chance to drive the car again, and i have a few nuances to report on.
turn-in, turn-in, turn-in. it wasn't exactly a problem to begin with, but now it's stronger. for a DD, leaving everything stock (alignment, dampers, tires) i think the swifts have a great balance. in fact, i would highlight that the initial turn-in is very satisfying, balanced with the lack of negative camber up front ultimately limiting front end grip. the result is predictable understeer. you just have to be going faster to get to that point. highlighting the 3k/5k front-rear rates as the greatest f/r difference has its place, but isn't as severe as the percentage would make it seem. 3k/5k is still pretty soft and this car really just goes from understeer to less understeer.
it highlights the serious need for more camber up front to achieve more grip up front, btw. i can't wait to break some porsches off at their local PCA autocross.
i would also point out that these are linear. if you like consistent, predictable handling, linear springs are a step up from progressives, but again, this is just my amateur opinion.
i'm definitely sticking to my first impressions about these being appropriate for DD in the ride and clearance departments.
wife seriously loves them. says the car is less sensitive to cross winds. we had 35 knot winds the other day. has yet to even mention the difference in harshness.
unfortunately, i haven't put the car through its paces yet. so as far as dampers are concerned, i can't rightfully say. over some of the bumps, though, ride seemed better controlled than stock. as though the stock springs just may have been too soft to begin with...
turn-in, turn-in, turn-in. it wasn't exactly a problem to begin with, but now it's stronger. for a DD, leaving everything stock (alignment, dampers, tires) i think the swifts have a great balance. in fact, i would highlight that the initial turn-in is very satisfying, balanced with the lack of negative camber up front ultimately limiting front end grip. the result is predictable understeer. you just have to be going faster to get to that point. highlighting the 3k/5k front-rear rates as the greatest f/r difference has its place, but isn't as severe as the percentage would make it seem. 3k/5k is still pretty soft and this car really just goes from understeer to less understeer.
it highlights the serious need for more camber up front to achieve more grip up front, btw. i can't wait to break some porsches off at their local PCA autocross.
i would also point out that these are linear. if you like consistent, predictable handling, linear springs are a step up from progressives, but again, this is just my amateur opinion.
i'm definitely sticking to my first impressions about these being appropriate for DD in the ride and clearance departments.
wife seriously loves them. says the car is less sensitive to cross winds. we had 35 knot winds the other day. has yet to even mention the difference in harshness.
unfortunately, i haven't put the car through its paces yet. so as far as dampers are concerned, i can't rightfully say. over some of the bumps, though, ride seemed better controlled than stock. as though the stock springs just may have been too soft to begin with...
hey no worries man! just glad that you were able to post! the wifeys thoughts are much appreciated, as it wil be awhile before we can get her her mini (the fit is OUR dd, not just mine...well, until then anyway.)
so the springrates are not as harsh as it would seem. you said that you preffered them over progressives....in the sense that you feel that prog.spring would have had inferior turn in and would not be as predictable?
i'm pretty postive that i'll end up getting wheels and the sway before any of the actual spring/dampers upgrades, but even then, i'll be getting either the j's or spoon dampers at the same time. thanks for the info man! keep us posted!
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 549
From: Dublin, CA., USA
Changing springs is worthed just for the sake of cross wind effect elimination! Any aftermarket springs will help with that.
First time I drove from San Francisco Bay Area to Los Angeles (about 350 miles in each direction to my destinations) I was working the wheel with both hands for every single moment! My wife was "driving" on the passenger side with me. We could not relax for a single moment. Twice I changed lanes against my will too!
Second time I went to LA I had springs and I drove both directions with one hand barely gripping the wheel! I know, not the smartest thing to do at 90 mph!
It was very windy on both trips. Warnings were flashing for high wind. Trucks, vans and other higher cars were swaying back and forth.
I apologize for making a comment about rear sway bar not making any difference to comfort feel. I should have pointed out that I do not have one on the Fit, yet! I was basing my opinion based on cars I drove so far and all had independent rear suspension. First time I drove Fit that was the first thing I felt - going over something with one rear wheel shifts the entire back end! Reminds me of my friends VW GTI's!
I doubt rear sway would make it so uncomfortable to make anybody remove it! Benefits way more out way the negatives. I will keep hating the feel with or without the bar, but I will get the bar! The only reason I have not purchased one yet is the fact that I would prefer something more extreme and preferably adjustable, just like on my CRX.
Without adjustable dampers the only way to play with the balance is tire pressures, shims for rear camber and/or front camber bolts!
I honestly doubt adjustable rear bar will appear any time soon! Since rear suspension is solid beam it would take much stiffer/thicker metal and more adjustment length than on independent rear suspension to have any effect of change.
Ivan
First time I drove from San Francisco Bay Area to Los Angeles (about 350 miles in each direction to my destinations) I was working the wheel with both hands for every single moment! My wife was "driving" on the passenger side with me. We could not relax for a single moment. Twice I changed lanes against my will too!
Second time I went to LA I had springs and I drove both directions with one hand barely gripping the wheel! I know, not the smartest thing to do at 90 mph!
It was very windy on both trips. Warnings were flashing for high wind. Trucks, vans and other higher cars were swaying back and forth.
I apologize for making a comment about rear sway bar not making any difference to comfort feel. I should have pointed out that I do not have one on the Fit, yet! I was basing my opinion based on cars I drove so far and all had independent rear suspension. First time I drove Fit that was the first thing I felt - going over something with one rear wheel shifts the entire back end! Reminds me of my friends VW GTI's!
I doubt rear sway would make it so uncomfortable to make anybody remove it! Benefits way more out way the negatives. I will keep hating the feel with or without the bar, but I will get the bar! The only reason I have not purchased one yet is the fact that I would prefer something more extreme and preferably adjustable, just like on my CRX.
Without adjustable dampers the only way to play with the balance is tire pressures, shims for rear camber and/or front camber bolts!
I honestly doubt adjustable rear bar will appear any time soon! Since rear suspension is solid beam it would take much stiffer/thicker metal and more adjustment length than on independent rear suspension to have any effect of change.
Ivan
finally got the pics up. i chose to go the coke can route because i'm lazy. plus, anyone can get a can of their favorite drink and put it by the very forward most part of the front lip; by the lip closest to the wheel; behind the front wheel; in front of the rear wheel; and under the rear bumper.
more driving impressions - could use more tightly valved dampers if you want to use the car for heavy cornering on a bumpy track (however it is you define "track"). in short, i'm not buying dampers for this car until it's necessary due to regular maintenance. at least that's the plan.
more on bumpy track. there is a fun uphill section that is really lumpy that at parts really unloads the suspension. not quite jump. regardless, i'm confident in the dynamic qualities and the amount of travel available considering this car drives in the real world 98% of the time.
i think that's about it for now. the speeds required to really push this suspension are more than i think is responsible where i live, so until track season starts...
more driving impressions - could use more tightly valved dampers if you want to use the car for heavy cornering on a bumpy track (however it is you define "track"). in short, i'm not buying dampers for this car until it's necessary due to regular maintenance. at least that's the plan.
more on bumpy track. there is a fun uphill section that is really lumpy that at parts really unloads the suspension. not quite jump. regardless, i'm confident in the dynamic qualities and the amount of travel available considering this car drives in the real world 98% of the time.
i think that's about it for now. the speeds required to really push this suspension are more than i think is responsible where i live, so until track season starts...
finally got the pics up. i chose to go the coke can route because i'm lazy. plus, anyone can get a can of their favorite drink and put it by the very forward most part of the front lip; by the lip closest to the wheel; behind the front wheel; in front of the rear wheel; and under the rear bumper.
more driving impressions - could use more tightly valved dampers if you want to use the car for heavy cornering on a bumpy track (however it is you define "track"). in short, i'm not buying dampers for this car until it's necessary due to regular maintenance. at least that's the plan.
more on bumpy track. there is a fun uphill section that is really lumpy that at parts really unloads the suspension. not quite jump. regardless, i'm confident in the dynamic qualities and the amount of travel available considering this car drives in the real world 98% of the time.
i think that's about it for now. the speeds required to really push this suspension are more than i think is responsible where i live, so until track season starts...
more driving impressions - could use more tightly valved dampers if you want to use the car for heavy cornering on a bumpy track (however it is you define "track"). in short, i'm not buying dampers for this car until it's necessary due to regular maintenance. at least that's the plan.
more on bumpy track. there is a fun uphill section that is really lumpy that at parts really unloads the suspension. not quite jump. regardless, i'm confident in the dynamic qualities and the amount of travel available considering this car drives in the real world 98% of the time.
i think that's about it for now. the speeds required to really push this suspension are more than i think is responsible where i live, so until track season starts...
perfect stance imo. it looks fantastic ken. thanks for the pics!