Finally got my Battleendless sway-bar installed. It has been on order since March of 2007 and had arrived at my place in December. Since this requires the lowering of the Fit's sub-frame , I had to schedule time on my mechanic's lift to get the job done.

He opted to loosen the four main mounting bolts, but lower just the right side of the sub-frame. This would allow enough wiggle room to replace the bar ; but did not require us to disconnect the steering assembly connected between the firewall and the sub-frame.

My mechanic said the new bar and the supplied hardware (brackets and bushings) were first rate and well done. I did have to purchase four new sub-frame mounting bolts, and two connecting arm nuts from the Honda Parts department. Those are considered consumable items once they have been torqued once and removed.

Well I have about 1000 miles on the car since completing the installation. My wife and I have similar feelings on the Fits change in the handling. It feels as if the car is more planted when going through tours (less body roll). Also, the hobby-horse motion that the car exhibited on wash-board bridges and roads is greatly reduced. The front wheels and struts absorb more of the road variation than it does with the stock sway-bar suspension . Feb. 1 starts the 2008 auto-x series here in California and it should be interesting to see how the Fit responds in more strenuous maneuvers. I would expect to have more "push" (or under-steer) than stock, but I'm planning to make tire pressure adjustments to compensate.

My take on this change: Cost, with everything added up: about $500 USD. Is it worth it? Well the daily driver ride is improved. And maybe I can repeat with another H-stock championship. Sooo, all toll I would say that for me it is well worth the money.

 

sweet. how much did you pay for it.

i wanna run sway bars in my car next.

 

Do you have any pics of the bar you can share with us? Do you have any other suspension mods done? If so what are you running. Thanks in advance.

 

$500USD?!?!?! How did it add up to that amount?

 

You Canadians get the bar for alot cheaper then we do down here in the states. I have been watching the thread for the gb on battleendless for the bar and all the canadians jumped on it because it doesnt have to be imported like it needs to for us making it more expensive for the us U.S guys. Im pretty sure he added in the price for all the consumables aswell.

 

congrats on the swaybar man. swaybars make a HUGE difference in driving feel!

 

I've been busy and out of touch with my computer so here are some of the answers to your questions:

The cost brake down does include the Consumables (about $35 USD), The bar which was $220 CD, and $268 USD for labor and lift time.

Other suspension mods: NONE. I compete in SCCA H-Stock autocross events and there are very few modes to the suspension allowed. My current project is to acquire two salvage from struts that we can rebuild into two fully adjustable struts that are physically STOCK compatible.

Other Mods: A-spec muffler, custom air intake filter, Hawk Autocross front brake pads, lighter weight 15x6 (50mm offset) wheels, and for the track 225x50 Kuhmo V710 front tires and 205x50 Avon R rear tires.

 

mrFroge,

I asked a question in the other thread on this bar-- were the bushings on the stock front bar made of soft rubber or polymer materials as they are on most Detroit-made vehicles? I know that the bushings on your new bar are polyurethane. If the stock bushings are rubber, I intend to replace mine with polyurethane when/if I find a source for the replacements. Thanks in advance for any information you can share.

 

Good question. My Fit was born in Japan so this may account for the bushings being made of a polymer material. I had to go out in the garage and check them out closely. They have 49,000 miles on them and no sign of wear and still feel like new! My take would be you don't need to swap them out.

 

Thanks for the info. I come from a background of off-road 4X4's, and routinely replaced the stock "rubber" sway bar bar, end link, and even leaf spring bushings with polyurethane ones. My Fit with the Progress rear bar has similar handling improvements as the ones that you describe with your BE bar. What I would like to do is to lessen as much flex of the stock front bar as possible with stiffer bushings. Generally, Detroit soft "rubber" bushings fall apart from the effects of ozone and hydrocarbons in the air, as well as oil and grit picked up from the ground. After-market polyurethane bushings don't react chemically with pollutants in the air, and are very resistant to abrasive wear from particles of dirt. The dirt issue is less important with a Fit than it is with 4X4's crossing rivers and blasting over sand dunes.

I don't need to replace the front bar bushings, but would like to find out if stiffer bushings would provide the same value in handling as they do with off road trucks. Using the BE front bar in combination with the Progress rear bar would be an expensive mistake- far too much increased stiffness in front.

 

Mr. Froge,

Did you by chance check the weight vs. the original bar?

 

No I didn't weigh them but there is a significant weight difference that I noticed after lifting the stock unit once it was removed.

My understanding of a sway bar is the diameter affects the performance. The best bar is a larger diameter but Hollow Bar. Less unsprung weight and greater torsional resistance to sway.

 

mrFroge,

To repeat info. in one of my old posts, diameter of an anti-sway bar does not necessarily indicate anything. In off-road vehicles, there are two major suppliers of after-market anti-sway bars. One is Helwig in Tulare, CA, the other is Addco in Florida and South Carolina. For any given truck/SUV, Addco bars are almost always larger in diameter than a bar for the same vehicle from Helwig. Handling benefits are pretty much equal between the two brands. But Addco bars break, and Helwig bars do not. Addco makes sway bars used by many American car makers. My wife used to refuse to brake when driving over dips in her 1990 Dodge Caravan. One dip too many at high speed, and she broke the front bar in half. I called Addco, and they make the replacement bar, but the price was less for the replacement at the local Dodge dealer so I bought it there. The package from the dealer had the Addco label.

Keep in mind that these bars are SPRINGS. Metal shapes that are intended to temporarily deform (twist) under stress, then return to their original shape when the stress is gone. The metallurgy of the bar is what gives it the ability to repeatedly twist and return with the desired spring rate without breaking. The wrong recipe in making the steel- how much iron mixed with how much and how many alloying metals, followed by the accuracy and repeatability of many heat treating cycles, can and does make a bar of spring steel too brittle, and it breaks prematurely.

Now, I am not challenging you on the idea of a hollow tubular spring. Based on my own involvement with the metal fabrication industries, it used to be impossible to make a tubular spring- a tube that could be twisted like wringing out a wet rag, then return to its original shape. But, Metallurgical Engineering has changed the way a lot of things are made, and changed the properties of solid objects so that they now have properties that were not possible in the past.

But if you can show me the existence of a hollow anti-sway bar, or any other tubular spring, I would sure like to see one.

The difference in metallurgy (metal materials combined with molecular changes derived from heat treating procedures ) accounts for the variance in ride AND spring rates in the published specs. of the spring manufacturers, when compared to the ACTUAL ride height and actual spring rates. From each manufacturer, one lot of springs will always be different from the previous one, and that from the next one.

From DIFFERENT manufacturers, a smaller diameter anti-sway bar can be more stiff (and usually more brittle)than a larger diameter bar made to fit the same vehicle by another maker. At the same time, a larger bar can be softer in spring rate than someone else's smaller dia. bar.

 

ELEPHANT RACING Sway Bars, 911 Series
http://www.modacar.com/products/Mazda/RX8/MODASWB/swaybars.html

I found a few. They are more expensive than solid bars, but about half the weight.

 

Thanks EXWRX.
Again, I was not saying to mrFroge that hollow bars were not possible, just that this technology was not commercially available years (decades) ago. The high expense comes from added steps in manufacturing, but the hollow nature of these new bars certainly would save unnecessary weight.

I would not expect this kind of bar to be available for off road vehicles though, mainly because extreme suspension travel (therefor extreme flex in the sway bars) is desirable, while the opposite is true in race cars.

 

The hollow bar is an interesting concept, but I don't know if you could get a larger bar in there, the BE bar is already a tight fit as is. I believe this bar will be similar in design and material composition as the T1R bar which should be available shortly as well.

It is heavier for sure, but when you bang the BE bar with your hand all you get is a dull thud... if you do this with the stock bar, it makes a twang and has a lot of reverberation in it in comparison. It is kind of neat just how solid this BE bar is, you could probably use it as a drive shaft on a big rig, lol

Hey Manxman, I am curious about the physics behind using a front sway bar in conjunction with the rear bar. If you have already done a writeup or have some links handy post up a link for me. Thanks!

Cheers,

 

Hollow bars are The Way To Go if you can at all. It's hard to make a hollow bar that's contorted like most OEM bars, but if you can sneak a straight bar in, Speedway Engineering has a great selection of goodies. They even have a slick rate calculator for solid and hollow bars.

Twist springs (torsion bars & sway bars) are part of the old skool Chrysler/Mopar suspension mystique, and what makes them painful. I'm pretty comfortable using them at this point in my life, though. It'll be interesting to see how mrFroge's experience with the BE bar works out on the autoX course.

 

I bought the first Progress rear bar on the forums, with the belief that it would stiffen the rear of the car laterally enough to greatly reduce body roll. I was right in spades. Based on the review of the BE Front bar by mrFroge, it appears that the same, or similar reduction of body roll is achieved with a heavier front bar. So one, or the other, add-on rear bar, or heavier replacement front bar, is a GOOD thing.

But installing both bars will most likely NEGATE the benefit of only one of either of the sway bars. And based on price and simple, quick installation, the Progress rear bar is the way to go. If I understood him correctly, mrFroge could not use the add-on rear Progress sway bar because of prohibitions in the classification rules of Auto X events where his Fit is used in competition. Since the car comes stock with a front bar, the rules apparently do not prohibit replacing the stock bar with a heavier one.

The price difference between the two bars, producing similar handling benefits, is 1. Self-installed Progress rear bar- $140.00 plus shipping, 2. Professionally installed BE front bar- $500. which includes shipping & import duty from Canada and high labor and lift time for installation.

Both bars added to one Fit would cost at least $640.00 and provide less handling improvement, maybe none at all, compared to just the Progress rear bar.

 

I don't know if adding one bar would negate the other, but in general, adding or increasing a front bar will tend to increase understeer or push, adding or increasing a rear bar will tend to increase oversteer. Adding both may not make the car any more neutral, but the car will certainly corner flatter than it did, and that will help handling overall. How MUCH it'll help handling remains to be seen. Hopefully someone will pony up for both and then there can be a showdown for some real results...

 

[quote=mrFroge;228697]No I didn't weigh them but there is a significant weight difference that I noticed after lifting the stock unit once it was removed.

Do you mean the new bar felt heavier or lighter?