I brought my car to a local Honda dealer. Before looking at a warranty claim they said I had to agree to a $187 diagnostic fee. They said they'd only charge it if my stuff wasn't covered under the warranty.

I said no, that's what the diagnostic is for- how do I know what the problem is before they check it out?

FYI my two issues are somewhat spongy brakes and the driver's side window- when it hits the top it groans.

The service manager did agree to a quick look, said brakes seem fine and it's the window seating in the gasket. He sprayed it with something but it still groans. I said I'm just worried that the window is trying to go past 'all the way up' and that the day after the warranty expires it's going to shatter.
He said not to worry about it.

Has anybody had these experiences? (groaning window and warranty service charge)

 

That sort of charge is normal, but some dealerships waive it while you're under bumper-to-bumper warranty.

If the issue ends up being covered under warranty, they'll pay 100%, including that diagnostic fee.

If it ends up not being not covered under warranty, isn't it reasonable they charge you a fee for their diagnostic labor? In such a case, why would they cover the diagnostic under warranty, but not the repair?

 

Because I'm not a mechanic and I don't know what's normal and what's not. Even if I were an idiot and said three windows don't work right because only the driver's window goes up with one touch, I'd expect them to say "That's normal- only the driver's window has that feature." But not to charge me almost two hundred dollars for the conversation.

 

You're reply is nonsensical.

You describe the symptoms. The window is making noise. Brakes are spongy.

They have to diagnose what the root causes are. That takes time and costs them money.

Window: Motor? Track? Electronics? Breakage due to forcing the window?

Brakes: Pads? Fluid? Leak? Damage?

Not everything is covered under warranty. They are telling you that it MAY cost you the diagnostic fee IF they find that it was caused by a non-warranty reason.

If it was caused by a defect, it's covered.

If it is a wear item (brake pads, fluid) was caused by negligence, damage, or act of God, it's not covered.

 

I understand that but I've never before had any dealer tell me it might cost me to have something under warranty looked at. As I said I'm not a mechanic- how do I know what noises and behaviors are normal?

Who pays should be between Honda and the dealer, not me and the dealer. The guy looked and told me the window noise is normal. Well, I've owned a lot of cars and each of them had four windows and this is the first noise.

I wasn't bringing the car in because the tires wore out and asking they be replaced under warranty (although if they wore out after 5000 miles I would be screaming).

 

For things that may have multiple causes, be it defect or damage? No.

Hypothetical:

Say your window issue was caused by someone breaking into your car.

Your stereo was stolen. You replace it, but you also notice the window is now making noises where it was not before the break-in.

You bring it into the dealer and all you say is: "it's making noise".

They begin work under the assumption that it will be a warranty item. But, as they diagnose it they find clear signs of damage not caused by a defect.

They charge you for the repair because that's not Honda's responsibility.

They also say: "Oh, BTW, since it wasn't covered by warranty after all, that'll also be a $187 dollar diagnostic fee."

Would you prefer that scenario? No. You'd be livid and ask them why they didn't tell you about the diagnostic fee beforehand.

Make sense? That's why they tell you about the potential for the diagnostic fee.

This isn't hard to understand.

 

This is my first Honda, but I've had work done a few times under warranty and no diagnostics fees were assessed prior to the warranty work. I think it's just your dealer being jerks.

 

$187.50 if they spend thirty seconds to discover that something isn't covered? That's robbery. They made it sound like they wanted to charge me- and why wouldn't they, if they could find an excuse to?

And with the window example above- once they find the problem isn't a warranty item they should stop and ask me if I want to pay for it. If not, they put it back together.

And whether they cover the cost as a dealer, or Honda does, not my problem. But in the case where I don't know what the problem is, how could I be reasonably expected to know whether it's covered? Even in that window example maybe the problem isn't with the repair but with some part that wasn't touched.

 

How do you know how long it will take them? Pure uneducated assumption.

But by that time they have already spent money to discover the issue. Should they just eat that cost? You've just explained another reason for the diagnostic fee. So they can recoup their cost (time) to diagnose if the customer decides not to proceed with the repair.

Exactly. That's why it's called a diagnostic fee and why it's waived if it's discovered it's covered by warranty.

*edit* What we've discovered here is you're not being rational and just speaking out of anger. If you don't get it by this point, I'm glad to continue, but it's not hard to understand the logic behind the fee. If you simply don't agree with it because of feelings, well, I can't help you.

 

First of all, please don't be rude on my thread.

Secondly, I don't know how long something will take but in the case of these two items, under a minute each to look at.

Thirdly, it's not up to me but in my opinion Honda should eat the cost of diagnosing something that's brought in as a warranty claim.
Because, again, if the mechanic has to take time to diagnose something then that's pretty good evidence that the consumer would have no way of knowing.

And by the way, lots of people aren't paid for every second of work. Have you ever asked a painter for an estimate? Looked at the dessert menu but not ordered anything? How about a real estate broker showing you a house you didn't end up buying? Spoken to a salesperson but didn't buy anything? Tried on an item of clothing and just left it in the dressing room?

So yeah, sometimes a service department will look at something and not get paid for it.

You sound like the angry person here. Why are you so bothered by my posting? And again, I've brought cars in before for warranty work and nobody'd ever asked me for money nor suggested there would be any cost.

 

Not really. It's perfectly reasonable to have such a fee. Labor is expensive. Diagnostic computers are expensive. Overhead is expensive. Diagnosing an issue can take time.

I've encountered dealerships that don't even mention it during the bumper-to-bumper warranty period, but mention it after. I consider that being nice as the fee is pretty standard in my experience.

I've encountered few private mechanics that don't have a fee and more that do. The fee amount varies.

If the OP thinks he's getting the shaft, he can always go somewhere else. Maybe they'll be nicer.

 

A private mechanic or a non-warranty claim may be different. These appeared to me to be warranty items. But again how the hell could I be sure?

 

Just saying... according to the dealer (per my experience) anything that needs repair is caused by either: a) not bringing the car to them for recommended severe service maintenance (such as changing oil every 3 months and ATF every 15,000 miles or b) you are abusing your car (accelerating fast, braking hard and farting loud into the driver's seat)
The dealer's service consultant want make you to believe that Honda walks on the water and floats in the air, therefore it's very difficult to get warranty items or recalls to be done in some locations.

 

Maybe that's been your experience but mine has been different at my local dealer and I've taken it multiple times per my build thread. At no time did they even bring up a diagnostics fee, even when they tried to blow me off with the standard line, "they're all like that..."

I even have a private mechanic who I'm very loyal to because he'll take the time to look at something and give me his opinion on if it's worth doing now or can be put off. It's all ready getting work done and they're willing to give an estimate for free so I can budget it for the next cycle.

Maybe you've been trained to expect it, but I've been trained to not accept it as business as usual. I'll find somewhere else to take it to that treats me better.

 

Sorry for the snark. I get that way. It's a personal failing.

Actual diagnostic time can be largely irrelevant. The fee is often standard set by their own internal policy. Some places charge diagnostics by the hour, but it varies. Some have a minimum diagnostic fee. I'm certainly not arguing that they like to charge people as much as they can. Is that fee high? Maybe. Debatable.

Nothing is "brought in as a warranty claim". Something is brought in with symptoms that may or may not be covered by warranty. Hence the need for a diagnostic.

Not disagreeing, but it varies by industry and by individual shop. That's their decision to make. Auto repair takes advantage of the fact that customers often cannot do the work themselves and are ignorant of the mechanical and thus charge as much as they can. But it's still reasonable to not want to give away your time.

I choose not to always charge my clients. My personal policy is if it takes me less than 15 minutes to do something, I won't charge them. If more, I charge in 15 minute increments because my time has value. But I'm flexible with that policy because I'm nice to my clients.

LOL. Not angry at all, nor am I bothered. You asked the question. I gave you an answer. You didn't like the answer so I tried to explain it logically and through hypothetical. You still disagree but have not yet refuted it rationally, only in your opinion you thing Honda 'should' pay. I'm not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion. I'm just telling you the rationale behind the diagnostic fee.

Point is, that a diagnostic fee may seem like robbery, but it's not. There's a perfectly reasonable justification for it. Do I like to pay them? Of course not, but I understand why they charge them.

 

That's exactly the point. Often they don't know either until they diagnose the issue.

 

Experience varies.

I've done the same. I have found places that don't nickel and dime me. It's not about being trained. It's about knowing the landscape and navigating it just as you describe.

Point is, fees exist and some are justified. But finding a place that doesn't charge them is even better.

 

Thanks.
I'm not arguing with their labor rate. They've got a big building full of expensive machines they have to pay for (although I think it'd be fairer if they charged for using the machines, not for owning them). I do think it's dicky to charge for over an hour as an initial fee.
As a counterexample, today I scheduled someone to look at my home A/C. They charge for the first hour even if it's five minutes. But that's because they have to drive to my house. If the dealer does five minutes work, it's only five minutes.

You're right in that nothing is brought in as a warranty claim. But for example the window thing- it's been a problem, it's not usual with a car window, and I didn't do anything to cause it.
Their response was inadequate but I did make it clear to them that I'm mainly bringing it in to get documented so that if the window shatters, we know a possible cause.

I bought a tire gauge. It stopped working. They asked me to send it to them for replacement, which kind of sucked because it was like four dollars postage on a fifteen dollar part.
When the second one stopped working they just said they'll send me a different model.
That's the way to do customer service (except for the postage part).

When I had a suitcase break they just asked me to send them a photo of the problem and they said I could order a new one from their website and they'd cover the cost.
Again, that's good customer service.

Telling me I might have to pay for a diagnosis when even they can't tell me upfront if there will be a charge? That's bad customer service. Not uncommon with dealers. On Saturday I showed a friend how to change the cabin air filter in her Lexus (which requires a screwdriver to pry up a panel so it's five seconds longer than doing it on a Fit). She said "THAT'S what my dealer charged me $110 for?"

 

Yeah, this is absolutely standard practice.

You are correct. It's between Honda and the dealer. And Honda has said to the dealers (in a nutshell, distilling down hundreds of pages of legalese in contracts and training documents) "We cover parts and labor where there is a defect. We don't cover no fault founds or issues relating to customer damage or unauthorized parts/repair." So it's up to the dealer to recoup that money for their labor. Ergo they tell you up front if it's not a warranty issue, then you are on the hook.

But I bought a tire gauge and suitcase and other little things that broke and warranty was different.
Yup. And these things are all quite a bit different from vehicle repair and a factory authorized dealer and a multi-billion dollar parts distribution network.

You're wrong. I've been to dealerships before for warranty work and they never told me I would be on the hook for repairs.
All you did was go to a dealership who didn't bother to tell you this up front. I can assure you, 110%, they will turn around and charge if the repair doesn't turn out to be covered under warranty. Because dealers that tend to give away their services don't stay in business. Most of them are smart and have you agree up front to avoid a "scene".

 

I don't think it's been mentioned but I suspect dealerships have begun to charge a diagnostic fee because they have been finding that customers have been coming to them to diagnose a problem and give an estimate on the repair and then saying "well I'll have to think about it", hopping in their car and then heading for their favorite cheap independent mechanic who will be happy to beat the price especially when the diagnostic work has all been done for him (for free!) by people with far better equipment and knowledge than he has.