Preface:
I bought a Fit over a Golf for more than one reason.


Topic:
2021 Forward Honda cans the 6 speed on the Accord, kills the FIT in the US market, and removes the Civic Si Coupe. Meanwhile, VW continues to offer both the Golf GTi and R in a 3 pedal variant.


Warning:
Don't come around with that crap "automaticz R fasdur!"



Thoughts?

 

"Honda cans the 6 speed on the Accord" - VW doesn't offer a manual on the Passat or the Arteon
"kills the FIT in the US market" - VW is killing off the Beetle.
"removes the Civic Si Coupe" - VW won't have a true coupe after the Beetle is gone

VW also offers the GTI and R in an automatic, most likely appealing to more buyers than the Si or Type R can.

 

The Golf is also a better car. Just go drive one and you'll find it to be quieter, more stable, and better driving.

Love our Fit, but we bought a Golf last time shopping because it's just a better vehicle.

 

I suspect 2020 will be the final decade for manual transmissions. Most high end sports cars gave them up long ago. Luxury cars did too (remember when you could buy a Mercedes or Lincoln with a manual?). Can't find them in trucks anymore. Pretty much every entry level trim has an auto. Manual sales have dwindled rapidly year over year. EV's are the future. Etc, etc. I believe Honda is just ahead of the curve here. Sad, but not surprised.

 

I believe those points, but what about reliability? From what I've been reading the valve coking problem on the VW gdi engine is really bad. I will suffer discomfort in favor of more miles before major service.


Yeah, I know. I was just hoping that it would still be around when i finish paying off my fit.


Last i checked the beetle is just a golf platform with less practicality.

True, and on that note: i wish the Si was still naturally aspirated.

 

The coking issue went away with the 2015 model year. They created a new PCV system that incorporates an oil separator. It's similar to what you can do with a catch can except their system drains the oil back into the system.

Our 2017 has over 80k miles on it and runs like new. Only one small issue it's whole life. The sunroof button had to be reprogrammed. Other than that, it's been flawless.

 

Where are you reading about it being "really bad"? I'm not aware that's any better or worse than any other modern GDI engine. The GK and pretty much every other modern Honda uses DI, does it not?

I also don't know that they necessarily fixed this either. It's certainly better than the original DI engines of the mid 00's. But I'm also not sure I would classify this as a reliability issue. Inconvenient for sure, but carbon build up doesn't leave you stranded on the side of the road. You just get to a point where you get slightly worse gas mileage until you have the intake cleaned. The same way my GE requires a valve adjustment. I'd call that regular maintenance. Inconvenient, no other car I've owned has required one, but it's not a reliability concern.

 

True that. From what I read, most of the people who've installed a catch can in the VW EA888 engine aren't catching much of anything. I have a VW Self-Study manual for this engine and learned that the engine has both a Coarse Oil Separator and a Fine Oil Separator which do exactly as you describe. Per the Self-Study manual, "the the blow-by gasses rotate at up to 16,000 rpm in the cyclone separator. This removes even the smallest oil droplets".

 

I really like the Volkswagen cars - both Golf and Jetta. More fun to drive than FIT or Civic, and (to my eyes) better styling. So I'm always tempted to purchase one to replace my FIT.

BUT, my left brain then kicks in and I've so far resisted the temptation.

What I love most about Honda are the Reliability and reasonable Maintenance costs. Minimal time in the shop and easy on the pocketbook. VW is lacking in these areas. Reliability ratings are typically "average" at best. And parts/labor costs are reminders of their German heritage (think BMW, Mercedes, Audi).

And, on top of this, there is the corporate ethics issue. Without getting too political, suffice it to say that VW management made some "questionable decisions" in the "dieselgate" scandal a couple years ago. The shoes are still dropping from that. I still do not trust them as a company.

 

I drove a new GTI and Civic Si back to back.

personally I preferred the Si to the GTI by a pretty decent margin. Also the back seat in new Civics is absolutely massive.

 

Wife and I did the same thing on two separate weekends. We came away with the opposite result. Just shows why there's different cars.

#1 Complaint that we both had in the Civic was road noise. Typical Honda, but the darn thing is just way, way too loud on the Interstate. Honda's are generally lightest in class primarily due to complete lack of insulation and thinner materials. That results in good performance at the expense of comfort.

 

MK7 and newer Golf/GTI are the way to go. The common issues that the MK6 suffered from were fixed. MK6 carbon buildup is not a reliability concern, just take care of it when the car runs ruff/MPG loss. It's really easy to check with a scope. I checked mine and it was not bad at all. The Jetta is a fun car to drive even with the 1.4T. My wife has one and I do enjoy driving it but it would be a lot better with a manual.

The Si needed a turbo IMO and glad Honda finally delivered. At least from a tuning perspective I think this was a wise move. I prefer the GTI over the Si. More adult and refined.

As far as automatics are concerned the DSG is one of the best and is not problematic. The 6 speed is the way to go IMO tho. Adds another level of engagement.

 

From owning both, this hasn't been my experience. The Fit's cheapness means that I'm constantly pumping money into parts and repairs just to get it to the 100k mark. I've owned quite a few Honda's, newer and older. I would agree that *old school* Honda engineering and reliability was top notch. I would also agree that *old school* VW engineering and reliability was subpar. I would not agree that either of those are still the case in the last decade.

I don't think they made "questionable decisions"... I think they were flat out shi**y and greedy. I would never defend what they did and I wouldn't hold it against anyone to not forgive them. However, and this is solely my opinion, I think they seem to have had a decent sense of humility and commitment to doing better. They admitted to wrongdoing, paid billions with little to no protest, did a comprehensive buyback with affected customers, they handed over their executives to face fines and prison time with no protest, and they committed a huge amount of resources to creating a global EV platform which you can purchase today (albeit, unfortunately, not in the US for another year). Again, I'm not defending their actions, but out of all the possible responses they could have possibly had to this scandel, they seemed to pick the path of least shi**iness.

 

What year Fit do you have?
I have had to make one single repair in the eight years and 125k miles with my Fit.

 

As much as I appreciate the driving quality of our Golf, I also have to wonder about this. Outside of fuel, oil, filters, tires, brake pads, spark plugs, and labor our Fit has been amazing in the reliability department. It left my wife stranded once, and only once with it's only mechanical failure. Fuel pump quit working at around 170,000 miles. It's now at 196k and still doing great.

Granted, at this point I'm going through and changing/modifying a lot, but that's just for fun. It could have just kept going as a commuter for quite a while.

 

2010. Bought at about 55k, approaching 90k. In recent memory I've had to replace the shocks since 3 of 4 were leaking. Replaced ac condensor and hoses. Replaced blower motor. Replaced some crumbling weatherstripping. Disassemble and relube the rear hatch handle.

Todo (parts sitting in a box in my office waiting for a not ungodly hot day to install):

• Replace ac compressor bearing to fix a horrible grinding noise.
• Replace calipers because one of them is sticking.
• Figure out why the new oem TPMS sensors have faulted yet again.
• Replace starter for sticky bendix gear.
• Replace window track or regulator or switch or whatever is preventing drivers side rear window from going down (still have to diag this one)
• Need to get rear bumper repainted where the paint is chipping off around the hatch area
• For the third time since ownership, go in and re-torque spark plugs since they keep trying to liberate themselves from the head. I wouldn't even mention this one except it takes an annoying amount of surgery just to get to a point where you can reach around with two hands and blindly access them.

In most cases, I wouldn't mind having to deal with this kind of maintenance to keep a car going depending on how good of a drive it provided. But the Fit is kind of meh. I don't hate it. I don't think it's a terrible car. I just have a tough time coming up with things that it's particularly good at. It has good visibility and predictable steering. The rear seats fold up which is occasionally pretty useful. It's safe in a crash. That's about all I can come up with. Its power and overall handling are barely adequate. It's fisher-price quality interior and insulation from road noise are disappointing. Its fuel economy is good, but relative to other more powerful vehicles it's lackluster. And as for above average reliability and low maintenance, I'm not seeing it. This whole forum, while filled with great folks who are extremely helpful, seems more dedicated to posts of "how do I fix X" than just about any other car forum I've belonged to in the past 20 years. I've driven a ton of cars in my life and I wouldn't call it a penalty box, but it also doesn't win any awards in my book. It's an adequate car, just not a great car IMO.

 

There are a lot of how do I fix X because this is a car for regular folks who want to save some dollars working on stuff? And it isn’t a hugely popular tuning platform?

Sucks you’ve had bad luck, but on a ten year old car a lot of the issues you’ve had are not all that surprising or major (in terms of cost)

 

I don't think I've ever been part of a vehicle specific forum where this wasn't the case. I'm saying there seems to be a lot more of it here. Much more of a consistency of common problems that one wouldn't expect on a modern car.

I've had other cars (including older Hondas) with 10+ years and double the mileage with less issues. Again, it depends on the car and what it provides as far as driving experience. If all of those issues (sans the spark plug one) occurred on my GTI? Sure no problem, wouldn't even think about it. But for what the Fit provides? I'm not sure how much more time and money I'm willing to invest relative to what it provides even if it's little stuff.

My post is really less about trying to complain about the individual issues I've encountered and more about the assertion that keeps cropping up that the Honda (today) is more reliable than VW.

 

I’ve only owned a 90s Jetta which was the worst vehicle I’ve ever owned.

My brother had a 2010/11 Jetta TDI and that thing was a nightmare as well. Dieselgate saved him from being stuck in that POS.

In the words of Dominic Toretto, I’ll die before I go back.

 

Which pretty much echoes what I said a few posts up: