Has anyone installed stainless steel braided brake line hoses to firm-up the soft brake pedal feel in their Fit? I've done this on other vehicles with good results, but all have been non-ABS and I am not sure how the Fit brakes would respond to this change, if at all.
Thanks,
-Rod
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2008 5-speed Sport purchased 3/8/08
Rods Autos Website

 

You've actually noticed a pedal feel difference in a street vehicle just by installing SS lines? The only place I've noticed a difference with SS lines is on a race track where there is repeated hard braking that causes brake fluid temps to exceed 400 degrees F. If you are getting that on the street, something is wrong.

 

Nothing is wrong. It has been a well known and effective upgrade on non-ABS BMWs for years, as well as on older full size pickup trucks and street rods, all of which I own/owned and have used SS lines on for years. The stock rubber hose can expand under heavy braking, especially on older hoses and create a mushy pedal feel. I've driven several other Honda Fits this week, in addition to mine and all exhibit a soft or mushy pedal, which makes it hard for you to modulate braking effectivly, during brisk country road driving. Why is this so with the Honda Fit brakes? Hose expansion? Brake pedal bracket flexing? Side effect of Fit ABS design?

___________________________________
2008 5-speed Sport purchased 3/8/08
Zeta Dead Pedal, ScanGauge II
Rods Autos Website

 

I don't know what to tell you. I'm on my second Honda Fit and I haven't had this happen yet; not even during an Auto X.

I understand the concept of the SS braided lines and they can be effective.

Maybe it is your rear drums. Maybe they need adjusted. How old is your brake fluid? Does it need flushed?

And remember the Fit does have ABS.

 

SS brake lines will not affect ABS performance at all.

 

You need to re-read my posting... my Fit is brand new and the other three Honda Fits' I drove were brand new! Based on having driven four brand new Honda Fits', all with the same mushy brake pedal feel, I view this as a characteristic of the brake system in the Fit, (others elsewhere have expressed the same opinion) not simply a characteristic unique to my own, new Honda Fit brake pedal feel. The pedal is mushy, period.
-Rod
___________________________________
2008 5-speed Sport purchased 3/8/08
Zeta Dead Pedal, ScanGauge II
Rods Autos Website

 

Pull the rear drums and manually adjust the ratchet wheel thingy until the shoes are rubbing the drums pretty good. You'll have to test fit the drums a couple of times to get it right. All that excess pedal travel is due to the fluid volume required to get the shoes into contact with the drums. The factory adjuster mechanism isn't nearly aggressive enough.

 

Good info, I'll pull the drums and give this a try. Thanks.
-Rod

 

Funny, I had actually noticed how un-spongy the brakes in my Fit feel compared to other Honda's I've had (even old ones with SS lines).
Also noticed that the rotors are larger than the Civics I've had and hope that means less risk of warping (a problem I had repeatedly on mid 80's vintage Hondas until I put teg brakes on, and once on a '91 wagon with a JRSC...but I was exceeding manufactuing expectation on that one).

To stay on topic though, the SS lines helped in my 86 Si even on the street and on every push of the pedal, not just once warmed up.... SS only compensates for rubber brake hose flex, no matter what the temp is. Pushing harder is more obvious that light braking, of course, but it was still notable even on lighter applications...rock hard pedal. On all cars with Dot 3 or 4, I also change fluid every 24 months or at the first sign of any darkness in the fluid. The darker it is, the more hydroscopic contamination is there, which is compressable, unlike brake fluid.

 

I'd love to try SS braided lines but I keep hearing conflicting strories about whether or not the one pair currently available for the Fit actually improves anything.

 

I agree with StormSilver. We've put SST braided hydraulic lines on dozens of cars.No one could detect the difference except on the racetrack where really hard braking was involved manu times per lap. Its a lot like strut tower braces; just another one of street those mods that are for looks.

 

I put Crown Mfg. lines on the front of a 2005 Jeep TJ and it definitely made the pedal more solid. Yes, the system was well-bled before I did the switch. The 2006 TJ in my household has the same lines with the same results.

 

Like they used to tell us in the "Duck and Cover" drills, when the Russians fire their nukes at us, hide under your desk. Here come the nukes mahout- duck!

 

This is not a good idea for two reasons.

Number one if you tighten the clearance between the drums and the shoes there will be an increase in friction between the brake shoes and the drums which increases drag which causes your fuel mileage to decrease as the engine has to work harder to overcome the increased drag.

The second reason is the increased drag will cause an increase in the heat generated on the face surfaces of the drum and brake shoe lining. This increased heat and friction will increase the wear rate of the brake shoe friction surfaces meaning more frequent repair and replacement of renewable brake parts.

In extreme cases the heat generated can cause major damage if the temperature exceeds the safe operating parameters of the brake parts and the shoes CAN expand so much that they LOCK that wheel. They are being forced by heat expansion into the brake drum with so much force that the wheel can not overcome the friction and becomes effectively locked until they are allowed to cool down.

Honda and other manufactures have invested millions if not billions of dollars in engineering costs to insure the best compromise between effective braking and increasing fuel mileage performance and have determined the best suitable clearance between the shoes friction surfaces and the brake drums under all conditions. They have designed the internal brake activating parts and installed them in the best way possible to perform up to the design specifications that Honda engineers found were the best.

Changing the air gap on the brake shoes by "Adjusting" the working parts is NOT something for amateurs and should best be adjusted by the automatic adjustment system that comes with your JAZZ/FIT. That means owners never have to "Adjust" their brakes the JAZZ/FIT does the best job by itself with no added "Adjustments" needed to be performed by the owners.

You can test this by yourself just pull up on your handbrake to the first click and drive around, tightening your brakes has the same effect.

 

Claymore, there's theory and there's reality. Reality is that I've done it and fixed my soft pedal. The lining wears down and the drum stops running hot after 20-30 miles. I've done this to every disc/drum car I've owned over the years. I admire your "Honda walks on water" love but I wanted a firmer pedal and I got it.

 

And you got your brake shoes worn down more than they would have if you lived with the soft pedal or fixed it with other methods.

Also you may have inadvertently glazed your brake linings. Your brake shoe friction surface MAY have become hardened from heat and are no longer effective at grabbing and stopping the rotation of the brake drum. This condition usually occurs after the brakes have been overused, either because of excessive panic stops or "riding of the brake", or letting them "wear in" after tightening the air gap. The friction surface must be soft enough to wear and grab hold of the drum or rotor to stop the car. Excessive overheating hardens the friction surface and consequently, the brakes become ineffective.

To each his own somebody had to point there are some negatives to your method.

If you are happy with less mileage to improve your brake performance it's your car and you can do anything to it you want and enjoy.

But the less informed owners out there just have to be advised to approach your improvements with open eyes to the disadvantages as well as any advantages you find.

 

I have to agree with Richard.


Most drum brake shoes do not contact the drum in the correct arc. They have to be adjusted once or twice within the first few thousand miles in order to maintain effectiveness. The automatic adjusters do NOT compensate enough.



I adjusted the star wheels on our 14K mile-old Fit yesterday. The adjusters needed 15 clicks just to contact the drums. A test drive did not generate any heat at the rims (proving that they are not too tight).

Brake pedal firmness (pedal feel) was improved and the parking brake held better too!

 

Well, my parking brake still holds the car just fine so I think the linings are good. I agree with carbuff that the arc of the shoe doesn't quite match the curvature of the drum. When I pulled my drums at 500 miles I saw that only the top 3" or so of lining had ever made contact with the drum. It'll be interesting to see what it all looks like in a few weeks when I pull the drums again.

 

Most REAR drum brakes have a single cylinder, "pushing" the shoes towards the drum, at one end only. That's why new parts take a while to reach peak effectiveness. They don't conform to the drums for several thousand miles.

In the "old days" of FRONT drum brakes, not only were there TWO cylinders on the front shoes (pushing on both ends) but adjusting the brakes was recommended every oil change.

 

Honda brakes in general have a "softer" feel than most other car makers. My 07 beetle has a much firmer pedal and when going from driving the Fit exlusively for a few weeks, then hopping in the beetle I usually come really close to planting my face in the steering wheel at the first stop sign. on my 2001 civic that had previously, SS brake lines and new pads made a night and day difference in pedal feel.

You have to remember first and foremost, the Fit is an entry level economy car. It's a platform that as had many man corners cut to save money on it.