Honda CEO shares more details about new hybrid models coming next year - AutoblogGreen

The new small gasoline/electric hybrid vehicle will have expected annual global sales of 200,000 units per year - approximately 100,000 of which are bound for the North American market. Following this launch, Honda also plans to introduce another unique small hybrid vehicle based on the CR-Z sports car first shown at the 2007 Tokyo Motor Show as well as a Fit hybrid model. Including the Civic Hybrid, these four hybrid vehicles are expected to reach combined annual global sales of approximately 500,000 units.

 

I honestly don't like Honda's 'hybrid' implementation.

You simply CANNOT move without the ICE running. The electric part only assists. It's not a HORRIBLE idea, but with the Prius managing slow speeds on electric power only, Honda's system just seems lacking.

It wouldn't bother me much, though, if you could get a Fit Hybrid that had the same feel (acceleration and handling, etc..) as my current Fit, but got 55+mpg... for the same price, or a very VERY small premium.

 

I totally agree. I don't see the justification for the current premium for Honda's hybrid models, when Toyota and now GM have more advanced systems for a comparable price. Like Fray Adjacent said, unless the premium shrinks to a very, very small amount over the regular price of a non-hybrid model, I don't see Honda's system maintaining much, if any, market share in the hybrid market. Honda needs a 2-mode, or plug in system in a hurry.

 

i don't know about the honda hybrid system, but the prius isn't a TRUE hybrid. it's a half hybrid.

VW has some diesel hybrids that are TRUE hybrids. it'll run on ONLY diesel fuel, ONLY electric power, or BOTH combined.

 

why get a hybrid for only 55mpg? I can get that on the FIT!

 

I Hated IMA too, but if you look at the current civic, it's impressive. It's heavier than the prius, but gets slightly better/worse mileage than prius.

But the city mileage does suck b/c ICE is always running.

 

Actually, the civic hybrids ICE has an auto stop feature that automatically turns off the engine at a stoplight or "waiting" scenario. Then auto starts when the gas pedal is pressed. Thus helping city driving.

 

Ok information to consider.
Before you purchase one get the facts and do the math.

EPA avg MPG for both or actuals if it's been around for some time.
Cost MSRP or going price for each
hybrids are and will be at MSRP or more. That's a fact and market driven.


A Take the COST difference between the two cars ($22k- $15k = $7k)
B Estimate you annual miles you drive 12,000
C Pick a gas cost like $4, $4.5 and $5

calc the cost of each car to drive the distance B at the cost of gas C
Subtract the two

Divide that into the cost diff of the two cars A

examples
(12,000/55)*4 = $873 - (12,000/40)*4 = 1200. $1200 -$873 = $327
(12,000/55)*5 = $1091 - (12,000/40)*5 = $1500. $1500 - $1091 = $409
(20,000/55)*5 = $1818 - (20,000/40)*5 = $2500. $2500 - $1818 = $682

$7k / $327 = 21 years ($4/gal, 12k miles)
$7k / $409 = 17.1 years ($5/gal, 12k miles)
$7k / $682 = 10.3 years ($5/gal, 20k miles) worst case???

Thats the number of years to arrive at the point the hybrid is making a return on the higher cost.

I did this when I bought my Fit. Looking at a Prius and it was well over 10 years (expected ownership time) ie not a good investment.

You can get into more detail like the other cost to own a hybrid. At some points all that extra stuff will fail. Batteries will need to be replaced at some point and they cost $5k+

OK figured I'd help with real math and you can have fun blasting at it but to me if $$$'s is on your mind this tells it all.

I made a spread sheet to do this so I could adjust the numbers easy

 

The only way I see hybrids going crazy and being the RIGHT choice for now is if honda plays it smart, builds a cheap and effiecient hybrid that does not have a short gear ratio like our fits and costs around the same. Our fits are still quick right from honda, I believe that hybrids can get away with having a little less power to them. So what, if you wanted a fast car that is a hybrid wait for the new supra, but dont whine about getting a car that has the potential of an average 55mpg+. And to those of you on here claiming that you get 55+ out of your L15 fits, I sure don't believe that you are driving under the average persons conditions, or how the average person drives. If you get that much with the gas engine, props to you, I can't do it with mine. But if it was easy to do then I think more people would have fits. I say honda is doing a great thing with this, but if they want to beat out some competition, they should offer a decent powered hybrid that costs no more then 16k or possibly even under. I don't know how far off the manufacturer is from being able to cut production costs on that technology to do it, but I am sure if you cut out some of the extra technology in hybrids and just make them plain and simple that someone could do it. Feel free to bash me, but it's just my opinion.

 

Yes, this is the Auto Stop, which is a good idea. However, it doesn't alter my point: You CANNOT move without burning gas.

Another disadvantage of the IMA system is that the motor is between the ICE and transmission - requiring it to spin at engine speeds. Motors get the most torque at 0RPM, not 1000+.



As far as the Prius not being a 'true' hybrid - well, hybrid just means a mix of two or more dissimilar things. The fact that it does move on gas, or electricity or both fits the generic 'hybrid' description. One could further categorize it as a 'parallel hybrid'. Others like a diesel electric system is a 'serial hybrid'. Serial hybrid means that one thing provides motive force - an electric motor, but it gets electricity from a generator run by a diesel engine.

Anyway, the whole hybrid/not hybrid is just a matter of preference for application of terms. There are no hard rules about what IS a hybrid and what's not.

 

I stated it earlier but I am with Paul............however, I might break down and buy the CRZ if it is as good as it appears even if the return will be years down the road.

 

Kuturagi is right - the car company that is able to build a cheap, reliable hybrid economy car will sell at a tremendous level assuming supply is good.

 

This is great news for Honda. I read (in my local Union Tribune) that Honda wants to reduce the gap between hybrids and non-hybrids to around $2,000.

I hope for a hybrid price war between car manufacturers.

I plan to keep my Fit for a long time, but when it dies, maybe I can get a electric-plug-in car powered by the solar panels on my roof .

 

But the prius can operate on battery alone. Basically at slow speeds, it can be driven like an electric car. IMA cars are always powered by the gasoline engine, low or high speed, hence limiting its city mileage potential.

 

Few people buy hybrids to save money. In fact, it's a dumb reason to get a hybrid since hybrids rarely save people money. They never have, and won't until the price drops.

There's a difference between saving gas and saving money. Saving gas is usually a political statement against oil dependency. It's also a statement against global warming.

 

I had thought about buying a hybrid before I got the FIT. I'm going to wait and see if in the next 3-4 years some company develops a better hybrid that will not need a battery pack replacement (ala the Prius) after 5-6 years of wear and tear. I can't see paying that much for a Prius or other hybrid and then by the time the car gets paid off you have to shell out another 5k or so just to get the batteries replaced.

 

i dont like hybrids. =fail to me

 

Why not? Because of the cost? That's what we're saying, the first company to make a cheap hybrid (likely Toyota or Honda) that gets over 50mpg will literally hit a gold mine. If it's less than $16,000

 

Or the price of gas rises further. We're not far from the break-even point for hybrids (particularly as several governments offer incentives on them) so I don't think they'll be a money-losing proposition for much longer.

Plus, all the hybrids until recently have been relatively efficient vehicles to begin with. I suspect the dollar value of fuel savings will be greater on, say, the full-size GM SUV hybrids, perhaps enough to offset the initial cost.

 

I think it's a bit short sighted to presume that running the motor only (especially in a closed system) is advantageous.

Normally you have an ICE (30% efficient) running through a transmission (85% efficient) yielding a total efficiency of ~25%. Now let's make the ICE a bit more efficient (since it's running at one RPM, 35%), charge some batteries (90%), run a motor (95%), and again through a transmission (85%). We're still at ~25%. Hence no "advantage" of running on motor only (hence, not a strike against Honda).

Now make that a plug-in hybrid and things change significantly because some percentage of the energy is sourced from the power grid which is much more efficient than our ICEs.

Now don't forget that the cradle-to-grave cost of a Prius Synergy is MUCH higher than that of Honda's IMA system, and the complexity jeopardizes the overall system reliability.

The whole point of a hybrid is to capture the energy lost in braking and find a way to reapply it. Most hybrids are more aerodynamic than "stock" vehicles and have low rolling resistance tires. So you'd expect from those changes alone that MPGs will go up.

Anyways, that's the end of this engineer's rant.