ahh i kinda like the arguing...
keeps me entertained :)

and i'm learning :D

hey, i thought you weren't going to post any more? :D

will get back to you later. im going on my daily morning drive in
my cooper-s. :p

yep, the entire point of the post to begin with. glad you're getting
entertained. :D

I was thinking you guys can try and little at home experiment, take 2 plastic cups of the same size; stick them together. Then face them down on your countertop and push on the center. Then apply a force to the side of the cup.

Then take a larger cup and place it over the smaller cup; push down on the center and again apply force against the side of the cup.

I think what you will find is with the cups that fit there will be little movement and it won't take much force to hold it steady. With the other arrangement you are going to find first that there is some flex in the side. The second thing is you will need to push harder to keep the cups steady, with less force you will find it pushing up on the opposite side you are applying force.

What this represents is firstly the flex that occurs even in steel wheels. The cup may be plastic, but in real life the steel is under much more stress that could be simulated by your hand on a plastic cup. That flex is what will give you the harminic imbalance and at a high rotational speed.

Now secondly the feeling that the cup wants to pop up more when you apply force to the side of the larger cup. This represents the additional forces on your studs. You can feel that even over a small distance the lever created will exert large forces and the cup is much more unstable under the same clamping pressure.

Now as a final test get a piece of papertowel and fold it into an oragami "hubcentric ring". After you place it into the larger cup to fill up the gap (even just at the top) the additional support provided on a different axis will give you compression and reduce the upward lift when you apply force on the side of the cup.

Paper towel isn't exactly strong, but it is able to take compression the same way the hubcentric plastic ring would.

ok, im back.... been a busy morning here starting off with almost getting
my cooper-s smashed by some toyota appliance that made a left turn
in front of me from the opposing lane. had barely any time to react
and bascially relied on engineering to get the car to turn and brake
without skidding into the damn car's rear door. escaped without a
scratch. then totally busy morning at work... anyway...

>Kenchan, the forces MUST be transfered to the car when you corner. I don't understand what you are suggesting by the tires will absorb all the forces because you need the forces to change the direction of your 2500lb car.


KEN: the tires will twist and bend out of shape to absorb much of
that energy before it breaks loose from the pavement... the tires are
a much weaker link than your lugs holding the wheel to the hub. your
car would have to be like a train with metal wheels to have that kind
of direct impact on your drawing.


>My point has been the same all along, when you corner you will have some tension forces being applied to the lugs. I am not suggesting your wheels are going to fly off as a result, however I am suggesting there is some deflection that will occur (based on your rim materials, design and construction) which will exert forces on the stud that could be mitigated by using a hubcentric ring which basically would absorb the forces in the form of compression. If this wasn't true then why would Honda make hubcentric wheels instead of just using a cheaper universal fit.


KEN: that's where i said that aluminum rings could *potentially* support
the lugs supplimentary, but isn't needed. the wheel will bend/break
before your hub or lugs will.


>The more important function being that it does center your wheels regardless of how inaccurate your bolt holes may be... this is especially true on multi-fit wheels. Equally as important it will dampen any vibration caused by an imbalance.


KEN: your bolt holes and taper better be fairly accurate as it's
where the main friction is between your wheel, hub, and the lugs.


>My final word is/was not irresponsible; like I keep saying regardless of the theory behind it in practical use we have members on this forum with this car that experience vibration as a result of not using these rings. The problem "Magically" goes away when they install them. A simple search online will reveal this same exact story on pretty much any forum that discusses after market wheels.


KEN: that's the result of the user not properly aligning the wheels to
the hub or a manufacturing flaw on the wheel. im not against using the
rings. it is there to help the user. infact most wheels that i buy already
comes with metal rings installed (like my SSR GT3's, BBS wheels, etc),
but ive purchased lower-end dressup tuner wheels like the Drag's on my
dd and they sometimes do not come with the rings. no problems though
as i torque the lugs down on opposite sides off the ground taking my
time. if i encounter vibration i would definitely try the rings, but from
my experience it did not help as it was the wheel's imbalance that was
the root cause...plus, some of the wheels that came with rings were so
damn loose i would laugh if you were to call that "hubcentric." more
like hubcentric wannabie sliced sewer pipe. :rotfl:


>Weak argument :rolleyes: Pffft, that statement is ironic. ;)
What I do agree with is readers should be doing their own research. We have a lot of faceless internet opinions (myself included). Not exactly a substitute for getting the facts yourself.


yep, by starting here is good. people like saiko didn't know what
hubcentric rings were... but now she does ;) (to saiko).

kevlar (bullet proof vest) = plastic
aramid (bullet proof vests) = plastic
fishing line (fish can weigh hundreds if not thousands of pounds) =
plastic

plastics = a very very broad range of materials
don't hate cause it's "plastic".....u have to know what type of plastic it is