There is at least one newsreel from WWII showing tanks on ice. It isn't pretty. Imagine 30+ tons of armor sliding out of control. It should be required viewing for anyone thinking their SUV is a magic snow/ice mobile.

 

I drive a fair distance to work everyday. And in the winter storms, there are more pickup and SUV accidents than cars on the highway I use. These drivers think the mighty 4x4 they are driving, on on crappy all season tires will magically keep them in control on a snow covered and sometimes icy road. I still see some cars in the ditch, but when I see SUVs and pickups in the ditch, they usually take out a few innocent people with them.

 

i've always loved small cars, i like their practicality, their looks and fuel efficiency. big cars in my opinion are just a waste of space - i think americans buy cars minding the biggest thing they might eventually ever have to carry(including passengers) but you'll mostly see is one person per empty suv on the road. my bf bought a touareg because he might get a dog, go camping, haul stuff, etc - but so far there is no dog, no camping and no hauling and i'm the one driving that car around and i hate it. i can't wait for a nice small car to come my way.

my car got totaled and i was about to buy either mazda3 hatchback or scion xb. my bf was pushing for the new jetta, which i used to like till they made it all giant and look like an american car.

 

You are correct that there are more SUV's and Pickups in my area. Most of these drivers don't know how to drive their vehicles correctly (improper lane changes, slow driving on highways in the passing lane, and turn abruptly). Additionally I feel if you are only driving one or two people, why drive a vehicle designed for seven or eight people, or to haul heavy loads? As far as whether or not you could make it through a foot or two of snow, I would doubt it, but I would have the sense not to try. That's another difference between car drivers and SUV drivers- the car drivers generally know when it's safe, whereas the SUV drivers believe that they are invincible and can go anywhere, anytime.
I'm not trying to knock all SUV drivers, those that are thoughtful and careful and use their vehicle for the purpose intended. It's just those who act like the road belongs to them, and they can do whatever damn well pleases them. Those are the ones I hate.
As far as the price of gas being $5.00, if I pay $50.00 per tank, those with SUV's and pickups will be paying $120-$150 per tank. That puts a smile on my face (knowing that per mile I'm paying about a third of the price they pay).
One other point that I didn't make- Think of the pollution those big vehicles belch out- my Honda Civic is one of the first ULEV class cars produced (the Honda Accord being the first), and most of those guzzlers can't even make the LEV standard!!!

 

Well the National Highway Safety Institute does indeed say that SUV's are much more prone to accidents - they even started a PSA campaign to gain public awareness to Large SUV/Truck handling issues -esuvee.com
...so I guess it isn’t a proportional issue

 

I spent 18 years in sales traveling 40,000+ miles a year in central and eastern Washington, and northern Idaho. Typically when I mention Washington state, people think rain. That's only western Washington. Central and eastern Washington get very cold and snowy during the winter months, as does northern Idaho. In those 18 years I drove over 700,000 miles over mountain passes 4000 feet in elevation, and across wide open plains where the wind blows snow into deep drifts. The vast majority of that windshield time was in Chevy S-10 4x4 pickup's. I was out there on the freeways and highways every day through every weather condition possible, so I know of what I speak.

"Maybe, maybe not. A large number of SUV's don't have true offroad ground clearance, as they are meant (and were designed in recent years) to be driven on asphalt. Furthermore, their massive tires are very expensive. This means that more often than not you will see them shod in 4-season rubber."

Every S-10 4x4 I bought came from the factory with 4-season M+S tires which performed well in every nasty weather condition I encountered.

"A manual front-drive vehicle equiped with a set of (4) winter ice radials will definitely outhandle any 4X4 or all-wheel-drive that is not similarily equiped."

Duh! But if both vehicles were equipped with (4) winter ice radials, I would outhandle any manual front-drive vehicle. In fact, as mentioned above, I could outhandle any manual front-drive vehicle with (4) winter ice radials with only 4-season M+S tires on my vehicle. I know, I've done it over and over again, passing FWD cars in compact snow and ice for 18 years.

You appear to have missed what I said:

"I grow weary of the "I see more SUV's in the ditch, than small cars" mentaliity. If this is true (not true where I live), the reason why you see more SUV's in the ditch is because there are more SUV's on the road (it was the big trend for the last ten + years). Also, they are typically driven by women who don't have a clue about the physics of rubber and snow."

The reason you see SUV's in the ditch was because of idiots behind the wheel.

"If the white stuff is 2 feet deep, then you shouldn't be out on the road in the first place."

If you're an idiot, yes. I've driven through two foot snow drifts many times without putting it in the ditch, or hitting anything or anyone. My point is that it's not the vehicle, it's the driver!

 

Let's just load a bunch of crap into the argument that has nothing to do with my argument.

First of all, I am not a fan of SUV's. I don't have one, never have, and never will. They are a stupid trend and the only reason most people bought them was for status. My 4x4's were all S-10 pickups, and don't pull this crap that you doubt I could make it through a one to two feet of snow because I have done it over and over again. Actions speak louder than words.

Also, I don't drive like I own the road. I obey the speed limit faithfully, and get pissed off every day on the way to work in my Honda Accord because the vast majority of other drivers on the road blast past me at 10-15 MPH over the limit. But when I drove in the snow in my 4x4, I frequently had to pass people doing 15 - 30 MPH in a 60 MPH zone.

I agree that the larger SUV's probably don't handle as well as the smaller SUV's.

The bottom line is that it's not the vehicle, it's the driver.

 

I will take it on good faith that you are an experienced (700k miles), safe and tremendously talented driver.

Where I come from, M+S tire are NOT ice radials. Without getting into the minutiae of deep snow radials vs. M+S vs. ice radials, my previous statement alluding to ground clearance remains true. What I neglected to mention, and that you failed to point out as well is the obvious fact that poorly-shod SUV's have additional handicaps vs. well-shod front-drivers. These handicaps are:

1- a much higher centre of gravity,
2- a much lower rate of recovery after the handling threshhold has been breached due to their greater overall weight.

If you have followed the thread carefully, you will agree that nowhere did anyone specifically mention ill-handling SUV's shod in ice radials winding up in the ditch while front-drivers remained, by and large, unaffected. I agree that driving skill is paramount, however it is not everything.

I have seen all types of weather up here in NA's Siberia, and I should also mention to those not in the know that Quebec's roads are no better than those of most 3rd world countries. Furthermore, although I have travelled a total of not more than 450 000 km, most of it has been during the winter. I admit to being guilty of "racing" (and humiliating) more than a few hotheads in fancy SUV's who have found it threatening to their masculinity that a dimunitive '91 "shitbox" civic can out-accelerate, out-handle and out-brake their wundertruck when the white stuff is coming down thick and heavy. Gotta love those Blizzaks!

PS. My '91 civic cx 5-speed weighs 915 kgs stock (approximately 2000 lbs.)

Peace to you my brother.

 

I agree about no quality small cars. I've been hanging on to my '91 Mazda 323 waiting for another hatchback that was worth the money. I considered the Scion xB, xA, but found them to be sluggish. I'm excited about the Fit's versitile interior. I use my hatchback like a small pickup. Also, when I go to Europe, I'm jealous of all the small car choices, so glad to see them starting to appear over hear.

Saw the Yaris at an auto show. Disappointing. Drab. Alas, not Fits on view.

 

hatchie roku

so far...

1-91 Si white rip EF
2-92 si red rip, 94 si white rip, 95 si blue rip EG
3-96 cx hatch silver rip, 98 dx hatch purple rip, 00 hatch white rip EK
4- 04 Si hatch white rip

now 91 integra ls..waiting for the damn fit..although the idea of a rear beam suspension is killing me

 

So it's safer to go the marked speed limit in the snow, than 10-15mph over the speed when the roads are clear?!?!?! Please tell me you're joking.

It's due to a mentality like that, that so many 4x4 vehicles end up in the ditch in bad road conditions.

 

So true, the Quebec government builds a road, and pretty much ignores it for 40 years. Add all the elevated roads and bridges in Montreal, and on cold days, black ice is absolutely everywhere.

In Ottawa we also have a shit load of black ice. This is what seperates the people that spent all their money on a fancy 4x4, and those that chose a less expensive FWD and a set of all seasons and winter/ice rated tires.

 

People Are Tired Of Big Ol' Cars And Trucks That Get 20 (if That) Mpg's, We Are Getting Smart (like The Oversea's Folk Have Been) And Going With Fuel Efficent And Space Efficent Cars

 

For myself, I commute daily on my motorcycle. But there are so many occasions that I need 4 seats or carry bulky loads... but I don't want to drop a load of money on something I'm not going to drive very often. Cars like the Fit has my interest, but it still has to win the arguement of why should I get a brand new car vs a used car (that's better in performance, styling, room, etc.)? Plus, I'm spoiled by my autocross prepped CRX... it's gonna be a hard sell to me.

IMO, the cheap & small econo niche market (under $15k) in NA is in a vacuum with the more "upscale brands", leaving only Kia (Rio, Rio5), Suzuki (Reno), Hyundai (Accent, Elantra), Chevy (Aveo, but a Daewoo really), Ford (Focus ZX3). Now that Toyota, Honda and Nissan are coming back to the fray during a time when fuel prices in NA shot up dramatically over the past few years, it is going to draw a lot of attention.

Just look at the line-up I just mentioned, they're all nice little cars... but they all lacked something to make you think twice about purchasing one (fuel mileage in small car terms, previous reliability record, marshmellow handling, or just plain boring). Just to rant here, from personal experience, the Aveo has horrible aerodynamics at highway speeds. It was scarier than driving a Miata equipped with proper snow tires on an interstate that just got closed due to a snowstorm... which never got stuck in a ditch!

To comment on the straying topic, usually people in the ditch are idiots and don't know the capabilities of their vehicle. 4x4s with the right tires, diff, & wench is a convenience feature if you do get stuck... otherwise as long as you stay on the road and not make any mistakes, it's fine.

 

Cute, unique look
Very affordable
Honda reputation
Compact exterior size with lots of cargo volume
Versatility of the seats
Plenty of after-market products for upgrade

 

Thanks for some common sense. $5.00 per gallon! What an wonderful idea! Woopie, why not $10.00 that would be twice as good! We would all be off the roads and back to horse and buggy. Let's all vote for a big tax hike on gasoline so people will lose their choice of what vehicle they want to drive. Folks with that mentality bring me fear. .. poet

 

Poet
you are not a poet
and now you know et.

 

oh brother

 

Dear China Fit,

I have always driven modest sized vehicles over the last 30 years with the exception of a full sized pickup that I had for one year in 1980. In 1985 I took a gamble on the 4wd Honda Civic Wagon and enjoyed 225,000 miles of reliable transportation over a 10 year span.

As you may have guessed I'm way past the 25 something age and am geeked (Yes positively geeked) over the thought of getting my Sport in April. Why??? Because it will handle, be reasonable on gas, accelerate fairly well and be not only practical but also downright fun.

Besides it is the 20 year later revisited Civic wagon all over again, but much better looking. 1500 cc's then and now but with 30 more horses this time around. Fact: my first car a 66 beetle had 40 horses and I loved it.

How can I not enjoy this vehicle? My only concern is opting for the 5spd Automatic due to damaged knee cartilage, I'm afraid I will miss the manual as I love to play on curves, etc... as only a stick can.

A great many of us over here across the pond love small cars, just as much as you and your neighbors do. We don't all look and act like the movies portray, that’s just for entertainment.

Cheers,
Blend3d
PS... The first car I desired but was unable to obtain was the Fiat X19, can you relate?

 

Our neighbor had a white Porsche 914 which we lusted after. A friend of my oldest brother was killed in a X1/9.

For me the Fit will be my 1981 GL1500 all over again, but with four doors, more interior room, more safety, and a bit more oomph.