Oil Filter -- Honda vs. Mobil1
#1
07-28-2009, 08:04 PM
Oil Filter -- Honda vs. Mobil1
I did some browsing online which oilfilter is good. I am using honda oil filter constantly but i found mobil1 oil filters at walmart and i was thinking if i should which to mobil1 oil filter.
Resources: http://rdx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682139
Both of these filters were removed from my RDX after about 5500 miles service.
Below on the left is the OEM Honda, and on the right is the Mobil 1. The Honda filter is made under contract by Fram Filter Corporation. The Mobil 1 is made by Champion Filter.
You can see that both have sturdy metal cannisters. The anti-drainback valves (orange rings) are both quality silicon rubber. The gasket seals (black rings) are both quality nitrile rubber.
Below is the anti-drainback valve in position. The screwdriver shows how the pressurized oil enters through the outer ring of holes. With the engine off (no oil pressure), the rubber valve covers the holes preventing drainback. This is not very important in the RDX, as the filter is positioned facing straight up to prevent drainback.
The Honda gasket is a "P" shaped seal fitted under a flange (partially removed below).
The flange prevents the gasket from coming loose, which in earlier versions caused a little trouble>>>
The Mobil 1 gasket is crimped in place to secure it. See the crimping in the filter base on the Mobil 1 parts picture above.
The Honda filter assembly is in three pieces: the paper element, metal center tube, and spring bypass valve (below on left). The bypass valve is sitting in position on top of the tube. The Mobil 1 filter is a single unit with an integral metal center tube and built in spring bypass valve (below on the right). The bypass valve is the black dot on top of the filter.
Sturdy metal center tubes are critically important to resist crushing, and both filters have them. Bypass valves are critically important to maintain uninterrupted start-up and high RPM oil flow, and both filters have the high quality spring type.
Examine the filter assemblies above and below (Honda left, Mobil 1 right). Notice that the Honda uses felt rings glued to the paper filter ends to hold it together (above). See also how the Honda's metal end caps barely cover the felt rings (below). Now look at the Mobil 1 and see how the integral metal end caps completely cover and contain the filter element. This is sturdier construction.
Last, and most important is the element itself. The Honda (below left) is paper and can be easily deformed by hand, or under the relentless pressure of the oil pump (up to 70 psi). Note how the Honda filter has deteriorated after 5500 miles of service.
Now look at the Mobil 1. It is made of sturdy fiber matrix and would require pliers to deform it. After 5500 miles of service it looked nearly new.
High volume oil flows from the pump directly into the filter on the bottom on the engine. It enters the filter through the outer holes pictured above, flows up the sides and then through the element and/or through the bypass valve and exits the filter through the center tube. High pressure now forces it throughout the engine.
At highway speed the oil pump cycles ALL 5 quarts through the engine 3 times in one minute. If your oil filter leaks or fails, the pump will dump oil overboard faster than you can recognize the problem, and stop the engine.
The difference between a cheap filter and a quality filter is about 6 bucks, or one less Mocha-Venti-Chino-Latte every six months.
So what about the Honda? It is sufficient provided you change the oil on schedule and always use a new one. The Mobil 1 is about the same price and you can see the difference for yourself.
Discuss.
Resources: http://rdx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682139
Both of these filters were removed from my RDX after about 5500 miles service.
Below on the left is the OEM Honda, and on the right is the Mobil 1. The Honda filter is made under contract by Fram Filter Corporation. The Mobil 1 is made by Champion Filter.
You can see that both have sturdy metal cannisters. The anti-drainback valves (orange rings) are both quality silicon rubber. The gasket seals (black rings) are both quality nitrile rubber.
Below is the anti-drainback valve in position. The screwdriver shows how the pressurized oil enters through the outer ring of holes. With the engine off (no oil pressure), the rubber valve covers the holes preventing drainback. This is not very important in the RDX, as the filter is positioned facing straight up to prevent drainback.
The Honda gasket is a "P" shaped seal fitted under a flange (partially removed below).
The flange prevents the gasket from coming loose, which in earlier versions caused a little trouble>>> The Mobil 1 gasket is crimped in place to secure it. See the crimping in the filter base on the Mobil 1 parts picture above.
The Honda filter assembly is in three pieces: the paper element, metal center tube, and spring bypass valve (below on left). The bypass valve is sitting in position on top of the tube. The Mobil 1 filter is a single unit with an integral metal center tube and built in spring bypass valve (below on the right). The bypass valve is the black dot on top of the filter.
Sturdy metal center tubes are critically important to resist crushing, and both filters have them. Bypass valves are critically important to maintain uninterrupted start-up and high RPM oil flow, and both filters have the high quality spring type.
Examine the filter assemblies above and below (Honda left, Mobil 1 right). Notice that the Honda uses felt rings glued to the paper filter ends to hold it together (above). See also how the Honda's metal end caps barely cover the felt rings (below). Now look at the Mobil 1 and see how the integral metal end caps completely cover and contain the filter element. This is sturdier construction.
Last, and most important is the element itself. The Honda (below left) is paper and can be easily deformed by hand, or under the relentless pressure of the oil pump (up to 70 psi). Note how the Honda filter has deteriorated after 5500 miles of service.
Now look at the Mobil 1. It is made of sturdy fiber matrix and would require pliers to deform it. After 5500 miles of service it looked nearly new.
High volume oil flows from the pump directly into the filter on the bottom on the engine. It enters the filter through the outer holes pictured above, flows up the sides and then through the element and/or through the bypass valve and exits the filter through the center tube. High pressure now forces it throughout the engine.
At highway speed the oil pump cycles ALL 5 quarts through the engine 3 times in one minute. If your oil filter leaks or fails, the pump will dump oil overboard faster than you can recognize the problem, and stop the engine.
The difference between a cheap filter and a quality filter is about 6 bucks, or one less Mocha-Venti-Chino-Latte every six months.
So what about the Honda? It is sufficient provided you change the oil on schedule and always use a new one. The Mobil 1 is about the same price and you can see the difference for yourself.
Discuss.
#4
07-28-2009, 09:27 PM
I use SuperTech oil filter from Walmart. They are made by Champion Labs (same manufacturer for Bosch, STP, etc.)
I've actually taken apart the ST oil filter as well and it is contructed very well, almost just as good as the Mobil 1 filter.
Best part is, it only costs $2.66 each
I think I'll stick with my ST oil filters
myke
I've actually taken apart the ST oil filter as well and it is contructed very well, almost just as good as the Mobil 1 filter.
Best part is, it only costs $2.66 each
I think I'll stick with my ST oil filters
myke
#5
07-28-2009, 09:45 PM
I use SuperTech oil filter from Walmart. They are made by Champion Labs (same manufacturer for Bosch, STP, etc.)
I've actually taken apart the ST oil filter as well and it is contructed very well, almost just as good as the Mobil 1 filter.
Best part is, it only costs $2.66 each
I think I'll stick with my ST oil filters
myke
I've actually taken apart the ST oil filter as well and it is contructed very well, almost just as good as the Mobil 1 filter.
Best part is, it only costs $2.66 each
I think I'll stick with my ST oil filters
myke
haha. tell me about it. i've been paying $9.78 per oil filter. What a waste and honda is similar to Fram. mmm. super tech, my dad uses that all the time, they're cheap but i haven't research about them. who knows i might be using that too. but i just bought mobil1 oil filter and mobil1 5w30 today.
so i'll keep an eye out on that supertechoilfilter
#6
07-28-2009, 09:54 PM
haha. tell me about it. i've been paying $9.78 per oil filter. What a waste and honda is similar to Fram. mmm. super tech, my dad uses that all the time, they're cheap but i haven't research about them. who knows i might be using that too. but i just bought mobil1 oil filter and mobil1 5w30 today. so i'll keep an eye out on that supertechoilfilter
so i'll keep an eye out on that supertechoilfilterEven SuperTech oil is good. I'd use that oil if I didn't have such a large stockpile of Castrol GTX.
I seriously just use whatever oil and filter at a good price. I also research first at the bobistheoilguy.com forums.
I love the fact that my Fit uses the same oil filter as my 07 Yamaha FJR motorcycle.
I usually stockpile on filters and oils... all from Wal-mart
myke
#8
07-28-2009, 11:03 PM
You should definitely switch to the ST oil filters and save yourself some decent change. They will work just fine.
Even SuperTech oil is good. I'd use that oil if I didn't have such a large stockpile of Castrol GTX.
I seriously just use whatever oil and filter at a good price. I also research first at the bobistheoilguy.com forums.
I love the fact that my Fit uses the same oil filter as my 07 Yamaha FJR motorcycle.
I usually stockpile on filters and oils... all from Wal-mart
myke
Even SuperTech oil is good. I'd use that oil if I didn't have such a large stockpile of Castrol GTX.
I seriously just use whatever oil and filter at a good price. I also research first at the bobistheoilguy.com forums.
I love the fact that my Fit uses the same oil filter as my 07 Yamaha FJR motorcycle.
I usually stockpile on filters and oils... all from Wal-mart
myke
#11
07-29-2009, 01:14 PM
I highly doubt that our little 1.5L engines need those expensive sysnthetic oils. It's not like we're driving high revving, high horsepower, turbo'd vehicles, which would justify the need for synthetic oil.
My plan is to use ST filters and whatever decent cheap oil I can get at WalMart. And I bet my car will still last until Armageddon
I haven't bought oil at WalMart lately because I still have cases of Castrol GTX oil at home that I got a really good deal on. Next time I go for groceries, I'll check how much oil prices are, but generally the ST brand oil/filter is the best value.
Engines and motor oils of today are so much better from 30 years ago, so that myth of the 3k oil change is pretty much out the window. ANY motor oil/filter out there will last way more than 3k miles.
Bottom line is, as long as you change your oil and filter when you're supposed to (Maintenance Minder), you'll be fine. It won't really matter much what brand you're using, the only difference you'll see is in your pocket.
myke
Last edited by IBJanky; 07-29-2009 at 01:19 PM.
#12
07-31-2009, 12:57 AM
Supertech Filters are good, not as good as the M1, but still fine. Really that Honda (Fram) is not as horrible as everyone thinks. It's just not a great value for the money compared to the supertech. I'd point out that the Purolator PureOne is constructed every bit as well as the M1, and can be had for closer to $5. Also, the Fram Extended Guard is a top notch, well-constructed filter that sells for around the same price as the M1.
#13
07-31-2009, 10:08 PM
I did some browsing online which oilfilter is good. I am using honda oil filter constantly but i found mobil1 oil filters at walmart and i was thinking if i should which to mobil1 oil filter.
Resources: http://rdx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682139
Both of these filters were removed from my RDX after about 5500 miles service.
Below on the left is the OEM Honda, and on the right is the Mobil 1. The Honda filter is made under contract by Fram Filter Corporation. The Mobil 1 is made by Champion Filter.
You can see that both have sturdy metal cannisters. The anti-drainback valves (orange rings) are both quality silicon rubber. The gasket seals (black rings) are both quality nitrile rubber.
Below is the anti-drainback valve in position. The screwdriver shows how the pressurized oil enters through the outer ring of holes. With the engine off (no oil pressure), the rubber valve covers the holes preventing drainback. This is not very important in the RDX, as the filter is positioned facing straight up to prevent drainback.
The Honda gasket is a "P" shaped seal fitted under a flange (partially removed below).
The flange prevents the gasket from coming loose, which in earlier versions caused a little trouble>>>
The Mobil 1 gasket is crimped in place to secure it. See the crimping in the filter base on the Mobil 1 parts picture above.
The Honda filter assembly is in three pieces: the paper element, metal center tube, and spring bypass valve (below on left). The bypass valve is sitting in position on top of the tube. The Mobil 1 filter is a single unit with an integral metal center tube and built in spring bypass valve (below on the right). The bypass valve is the black dot on top of the filter.
Sturdy metal center tubes are critically important to resist crushing, and both filters have them. Bypass valves are critically important to maintain uninterrupted start-up and high RPM oil flow, and both filters have the high quality spring type.
Examine the filter assemblies above and below (Honda left, Mobil 1 right). Notice that the Honda uses felt rings glued to the paper filter ends to hold it together (above). See also how the Honda's metal end caps barely cover the felt rings (below). Now look at the Mobil 1 and see how the integral metal end caps completely cover and contain the filter element. This is sturdier construction.
Last, and most important is the element itself. The Honda (below left) is paper and can be easily deformed by hand, or under the relentless pressure of the oil pump (up to 70 psi). Note how the Honda filter has deteriorated after 5500 miles of service.
Now look at the Mobil 1. It is made of sturdy fiber matrix and would require pliers to deform it. After 5500 miles of service it looked nearly new.
High volume oil flows from the pump directly into the filter on the bottom on the engine. It enters the filter through the outer holes pictured above, flows up the sides and then through the element and/or through the bypass valve and exits the filter through the center tube. High pressure now forces it throughout the engine.
At highway speed the oil pump cycles ALL 5 quarts through the engine 3 times in one minute. If your oil filter leaks or fails, the pump will dump oil overboard faster than you can recognize the problem, and stop the engine.
The difference between a cheap filter and a quality filter is about 6 bucks, or one less Mocha-Venti-Chino-Latte every six months.
So what about the Honda? It is sufficient provided you change the oil on schedule and always use a new one. The Mobil 1 is about the same price and you can see the difference for yourself.
Discuss.
Resources: http://rdx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682139
Both of these filters were removed from my RDX after about 5500 miles service.
Below on the left is the OEM Honda, and on the right is the Mobil 1. The Honda filter is made under contract by Fram Filter Corporation. The Mobil 1 is made by Champion Filter.
You can see that both have sturdy metal cannisters. The anti-drainback valves (orange rings) are both quality silicon rubber. The gasket seals (black rings) are both quality nitrile rubber.
Below is the anti-drainback valve in position. The screwdriver shows how the pressurized oil enters through the outer ring of holes. With the engine off (no oil pressure), the rubber valve covers the holes preventing drainback. This is not very important in the RDX, as the filter is positioned facing straight up to prevent drainback.
The Honda gasket is a "P" shaped seal fitted under a flange (partially removed below).
The flange prevents the gasket from coming loose, which in earlier versions caused a little trouble>>> The Mobil 1 gasket is crimped in place to secure it. See the crimping in the filter base on the Mobil 1 parts picture above.
The Honda filter assembly is in three pieces: the paper element, metal center tube, and spring bypass valve (below on left). The bypass valve is sitting in position on top of the tube. The Mobil 1 filter is a single unit with an integral metal center tube and built in spring bypass valve (below on the right). The bypass valve is the black dot on top of the filter.
Sturdy metal center tubes are critically important to resist crushing, and both filters have them. Bypass valves are critically important to maintain uninterrupted start-up and high RPM oil flow, and both filters have the high quality spring type.
Examine the filter assemblies above and below (Honda left, Mobil 1 right). Notice that the Honda uses felt rings glued to the paper filter ends to hold it together (above). See also how the Honda's metal end caps barely cover the felt rings (below). Now look at the Mobil 1 and see how the integral metal end caps completely cover and contain the filter element. This is sturdier construction.
Last, and most important is the element itself. The Honda (below left) is paper and can be easily deformed by hand, or under the relentless pressure of the oil pump (up to 70 psi). Note how the Honda filter has deteriorated after 5500 miles of service.
Now look at the Mobil 1. It is made of sturdy fiber matrix and would require pliers to deform it. After 5500 miles of service it looked nearly new.
High volume oil flows from the pump directly into the filter on the bottom on the engine. It enters the filter through the outer holes pictured above, flows up the sides and then through the element and/or through the bypass valve and exits the filter through the center tube. High pressure now forces it throughout the engine.
At highway speed the oil pump cycles ALL 5 quarts through the engine 3 times in one minute. If your oil filter leaks or fails, the pump will dump oil overboard faster than you can recognize the problem, and stop the engine.
The difference between a cheap filter and a quality filter is about 6 bucks, or one less Mocha-Venti-Chino-Latte every six months.
So what about the Honda? It is sufficient provided you change the oil on schedule and always use a new one. The Mobil 1 is about the same price and you can see the difference for yourself.
Discuss.
It would be very interesting to take the filter element out and measure the area.
Before that after both were in the same service, measure the pressure drop across each at 60 psig inlet pressure.
There is a reason why racers use Fram HP-15 filters in their Hondas
#14
08-04-2009, 03:12 PM
I believe Supertech and maybe the other Champion filters have the lowest restriction of the mainstream oil filters. Purolator PureOnes, at least last time I checked, had a bit more pressure drop. I remember it was a miniscandal on bitog for a bit.
#15
08-19-2009, 01:08 PM
Virtually all parts of substantial production by outside suppliers make parts for all manufacturers. Very few vehicles manufacturers make their own parts outside bodies and assembling their engines.
Most vehicles are assembled from parts masde by hundreds of suppliers, including engine parts.
Actually, Fram has a pretty good reputation.
#16
08-19-2009, 01:22 PM
According to the oil analyses at bobistheoilguy.com, SuperTech oil is a very good oil, in both the regular dino and the synthetic flavors.
I highly doubt that our little 1.5L engines need those expensive sysnthetic oils. It's not like we're driving high revving, high horsepower, turbo'd vehicles, which would justify the need for synthetic oil.
Engines and motor oils of today are so much better from 30 years ago, so that myth of the 3k oil change is pretty much out the window. ANY motor oil/filter out there will last way more than 3k miles.
Bottom line is, as long as you change your oil and filter when you're supposed to (Maintenance Minder), you'll be fine. It won't really matter much what brand you're using, the only difference you'll see is in your pocket.
myke
I highly doubt that our little 1.5L engines need those expensive sysnthetic oils. It's not like we're driving high revving, high horsepower, turbo'd vehicles, which would justify the need for synthetic oil.
Engines and motor oils of today are so much better from 30 years ago, so that myth of the 3k oil change is pretty much out the window. ANY motor oil/filter out there will last way more than 3k miles.
Bottom line is, as long as you change your oil and filter when you're supposed to (Maintenance Minder), you'll be fine. It won't really matter much what brand you're using, the only difference you'll see is in your pocket.
myke
More important as rpm increases the added lubrication protection of synthetics is the difference that really matters for synthetics. The good ones exhibit considerable improvement in shear strength, or the ability of a thin film of oil to thin out and spread out over a contact surface without 'ripping' and thus exposing the two metal surfaces.
We measure degradation by sressing the film strength by the oil samples passing a high pressure ball bearing rotation test, time to burn. There is a dramatic idecrease in time at 3000 miles for napthene based dyno oils and perhaps 4000 for paraffin based; but synthetics are good for at least 6000 miles.
you later or earlier.
#17
08-19-2009, 02:18 PM
AMSOIL Ea Oil Filters - Nanofiber Technology
here is the amsoil filter for a 2009 fit.
I would use amsoil better than either one of them.
Put some amsoil 0w-30 or 0w20 oil in and you will be good to go.
here is the amsoil filter for a 2009 fit.
I would use amsoil better than either one of them.
Put some amsoil 0w-30 or 0w20 oil in and you will be good to go.
Last edited by jsusanka; 08-19-2009 at 02:22 PM.
#18
08-19-2009, 11:25 PM
We measure degradation by sressing the film strength by the oil samples passing a high pressure ball bearing rotation test, time to burn. There is a dramatic idecrease in time at 3000 miles for napthene based dyno oils and perhaps 4000 for paraffin based; but synthetics are good for at least 6000 miles.
you later or earlier.
you later or earlier.
#19
08-20-2009, 08:20 AM
If memory serves its a 3 ball test where the balls are subjected to increasing pressure til lubrication fails.
Its not exact but a very good indication of the lubrication efforts in an internal combustion engine.it does ave an ASTM designation and procedure.
#20
08-20-2009, 06:35 PM
It's a very good test when used along with others. But as a stand alone, it is not the end-all be-all. It does not truly simulate engine conditions, but can give you an idea of an oil's anti-wear properties.