In the era of front-engine, rear-wheel drive layouts, the device for achieving an overdrive transmission was usually a small separate gearbox, attached to the rear of the main gearbox and controlled by its own shift lever or electrical actuation button. These were often an optional extra on some models of the same car. As popular cars became faster relative to legal limits and fuel costs became more important, particularly after the 1973 oil crisis, the use of 5-speed gearboxes became more common in mass-market cars, with the 5th gear being an overdrive, eliminating the need for a separate gearbox.[1]
With the popularity of front wheel drive cars, the separate gearbox and final drive have merged into a single transaxle. However the fundamental meaning, that of an overall ratio higher than the ratio for maximum speed, still applies.[1] Although the deliberate labelling of an overdrive is now rare, the underlying feature is now found across all cars.

 

My goodness, how do you know Wanderer's head is pointy? No argument here in your "fact" definition of OD.

Another angle - For cars with the OD button, OD is enabled by default. When the button is pressed, OD override switch indicator light comes on and OD is disabled, hence the downshift effect. So as a reference point on a Fit Sport AT, the same effect is achieved by going into S mode. Not an expert, just my experience... Peace... Have a great day!

 

YOUR post merely repeats my statements made in post #12. How does repeating my words make my statements wrong and yours right? Not possible.

 

You see the part of my post where it says "the underlying feature is now found across all cars"...Might wanna read next time cause that's not what you said

 

This part is correct:::
Overdrive in fact does REDUCE engine rpm.
Increasing rpm by downshifting is the opposite of overdrive.

 

Overdrive was originally an electro-mechanical device that changed to speed of the transmission output shaft from 1 to 1 to something less like .8 to 1. The last one I owned had a governor attached to the tail shaft to sense vehicle speed and a solenoid to accomplish the actual shifting. To make it down shift there was an accelerator mounted double pole switch that activated at near full throttle. One pole of the switch killed the power to the solenoid and the second pole killed the engine briefly to remove the torque on the gears just long enough for solenoid to drop out causing the return to the 1 to 1 ratio.

Later transmissions accomplished the same functionality by adding an additional gear so the final ratio was less than 1 to 1. As an example here are the ratios on my 4L60E Auto trans in my Colorado: First 3.06:1, Second 1.63:1, Third 1:1, Fourth 0.696:1, (Reverse 2.29:1) I did not look up the ratios on the Fit transmissions.

Is that an overdrive? I suggest it is all semantics. That 4L60E accomplishes the same function as the previous tail shaft mounted overdrive.

Your overdrive posting definitely is right on. I suggest, if you use the word in it's purest form that you are correct. But over the years the word has been used more to describe function rather than the actual hardware itself. I'll leave the conclusion up to the reader. I think the important thing here is to understand the function before reading all of the marketing hype or the "forum experts" opinions.

I have run into a couple of self appointed experts on this forum. I post my ideas and maybe one rebuttal if I feel it is constructive. At that point I move on.

When I get statements of "I've been selling this for 10 years" or profanity is necessary for them to explain their ideas, I just move on.

I managed a sales department for a while. Salesmen make money by convincing you that you need their product. Most good salesmen could sell you dog food, cemetery lots, computers, or car parts equally well. Being a good salesmen does not require a good knowledge of the product. It only requires a good gift a gab in convincing you that you need or want their product.

My suggestion is to question everything you read here. If it at all sounds strange, research the topic independently. Then make an educated decision as the the validity of what you have seen.

Thanks for the provocative topic.

"Never argue with an idiot. They will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"

 

^^^This is what ive been trying to say the whole time. Thank you

 

n9CV-

If I had "moved on" and left this thread in the hands of uninformed, self obsessed "experts" who are dedicated to believing the total crap that they make up, or read from some other idiot, then the silent majority who read threads to get real info. will just get crap info.

I will not let the people who come here to worship in the cult of self obsession own any thread that is based on false beliefs. It is the responsibility of those with educations, engineering backgrounds, and real experience in industry to fight against outright bullshit.

Not all salesmen lie for profit or sell technology that they are ignorant about. The good salesmen are expert in their technology, and only sell what their customers actually need to solve specific problems or meet specific manufacturing needs. Unfortunately, car salesmen don't have anything in common with industrial sales engineers.

I do agree that arguing with people who simply want to believe nonsense is a waste of time. A lot of the contributors in this thread were born hundreds of years too late. They would have been quite comfortable as "witch finders" in Salem, MA, or "best buds" of Torquemada in the Spanish Inquisition. Gang mentality dedicated to nonsense because it makes them more popular in the crowd of other dimwits.

The difference between you and me is, I managed the efforts of 80 Industrial Sales Engineers as we changed the way that diesel engines are made and repaired. Sleeving-and-pinning, or welding to repair main bearing saddle areas of railroad locomotive and truck engines, with the expected failure rate of 50% or more, is no longer done because of the success of our revolutionary methods pioneered in the mid-'70s. Our methods reduced failure rates of repairs of blocks, crankshafts, heads, connecting rods, and even the rotors of Rootes superchargers, to zero.

That was one of my three careers. I no longer have to work (but I am not 65). Paid cash for three new cars in the last four years, own my home. So I have all the time necessary to waste on arguments with people who just want to be dumb. The only reason why I waste that time is the fact that not all of the readers of these threads are stupid- some actually want the truth.

 

Put it in S mode. Don't touch the paddles. This is the same as using an "overdrive button". This is what I do for in town driving.

 

I guess you missed the point. Even if you had "overdrive" in a Fit, and you don't, no one would use "overdrive" for "in town" driving. "S" mode LOCKS OUT fifth gear, and fifth gear isn't used at low speeds. So you obviously don't want to understand the simple points that have already been covered.

 

I have not been around on this forum very long. I came here to listen to ideas and pick up information about a Honda Fit that I fairly recently acquired. In the process of listening I am willing to share my knowledge and and experiences to help others in the areas that I have personal experience with.

I have a background in Chemical Engineering and Electrical Engineering and have advanced degrees in both. Every 5 to 7 years I ended up changing jobs with the same company. I spent quite a bit of time managing multiple laboratory operations for a world wide large petro-chemical company. For I while, I managed the implementation of a new and still in use process control operation for the same company. We designed and built the first one in the US and then slowly spread that implementation world wide. I retired at age 55 and chose to do some industry consulting which I still do to this day. I love traveling, so working for various companies around the world, including the company I retired from, works just great for me. I do not work full time any more. I work on a project and complete it. Then I wait until someone calls for another.

As I said before, I'll help anyone, but when I run into someone who has a big ego and wants to tell me something obviously wrong, I'll listen to see if their idea has any merit. Then I move on if they are feeding me obvious BS. I sure do not know it all and can be wrong. If I am wrong I will be the first to admit it. I do not want someone to make a mistake or screw something up because I advised them incorrectly. Differences of opinion are one thing, but obvious BS is completely different. I don't see the need to waste my time on those types because it will not change anything. I can only hope others will come to the similar conclusions.

I do my best to not come on in an over bearing way and I try to post in non-technical terms. Doing otherwise intimidates people and chases them away. If this is like most other forums, most people came here looking for help, ideas, or information. In the end it is up to each reader to decide what is good and what is bad information.

There a few other forums that I belong to and have been on for years. Many of the people there I know on a first name basis. We all have the same objective and that is to help each other. I do not see anywhere near the amount of ill informed or obviously wrong "expert" postings on those forums that I see here. I do not understand why that is.

I'll just hang in here and see what I can learn.

It is time to back to discussing Honda Fits.

 

Last sentence of last paragraph: "Why that is" is the cult of the self obsessed. Most members are ignorant show-offs who think that car forums are a popularity contest. Lies and b.s. don't matter as long as they make you more "famous". Most members do not have an education, and their Fit is their first car. They still feel the need to compete, in their ignorance, with members who actually know what they are talking about in their posted attempts to give true answers and real help to the honest members who admit their ignorance and ask for help in understanding something.

Internet car forums are like Disneyland for crazy people. They think that they can get away with claiming to be anything at all. Moderators are free to break all forums rules, to lie in selling mod parts and accessories, and then to ban forums members for showing the deficiencies in the stuff that they try to sell. Fortunately, a lot of the mods. that I described are now gone from these forums.

Point being that professional people with experience in the competitive nature of technical commerce in the U.S. and abroad don't fit very well with the fantasy nature of the typical car forum. If this is your first car forums experience, be prepared for future disappointments. This is the model for forums. It is worse now than it was six years ago, and most of the objectionable people from six years ago are gone, but are replaced by even worse personalities. Same lies, same illiteracy, same lack of education and factual information. But larger numbers of them.

 

I love semantic arguments that resolve around an older strict definition and a more modern looser definition.

 

That was a great example of forums illiteracy. Using "resolve" was the wrong word to proclaim your superiority on the forums.

 

Meh, given that it was a post from a mobile device (i.e., tiny text area so proper proofing is difficult) while dealing with a difficult toddler and a bit of a migraine that makes focusing difficult, and the point is pretty clear, it holds up pretty well. Were I writing an article for a print publication, I'd clean up the posting a bit.

Regardless, the point stands that you are trying to make a semantic point using the older, more rigorous definition of overdrive, whereas everyone else is using the more modern, looser definition. Word meaning evolve, especially in technical fields. Overdrive now refers to gearing where the final drive ratio is less than 1. The more archaic definition that you are using is just that, archaic.

 

In the design, manufacturing, and repair of bridges, aircraft, cars, nuclear weapons, defense missiles, railroads, mines, naval ships, medical science, and anything else that you can imagine, literacy and clarity in communication are crucial. Make all the excuses that you want, your previous comment was not properly worded. Illiteracy kills people in industry, science, and medicine. If you can't write clearly, don't write. The fact that you did when unprepared demonstrates your fanaticism on the forums. Even when what you have to say doesn't make sense, you have to say it anyway. It's okay though, you have a LOT of company. You are less idiotic than most.

 

Look, if I were writing for industry, manufacturing, or any other field were writing resolves instead of revolves were a major blunder capable of injuring people or damaging equipment, I wouldn't have been writing off the cuff with no further proofing. I let autocorrect substitute the wrong word. I also wrote ratio of 1 rather than ratio of 1:1. Luckily it didn't kill half the people who read the forum.

That does not salvage your point however. In modern usage overdrive refers to "a gear in a motor vehicle providing a gear ratio higher than that of the drive gear or top gear, so that engine speed and fuel consumption are reduced in highway travel." You being fundamentally wrong about your entire argument is a far worse error than my mistyping. In the Honda Fit, both the 4th and 5th gears "provi[de] a gear ratio higher than that of the drive gear or top gear, so that engine speed and fuel consumption are reduced in highway travel." thus are both overdrive gears.

You can find this usage in multiple places, not just the forums.
2011 Chevy Cruze Eco at the LA Auto Show – 2010 LA Auto Show Car Previews - Popular Mechanics
"The manual transmission is lighter than the automatic and has an overdrive gear in three of its ratios."

or

"Compared with the six-speed manual transmissions paired with non-Eco Cruzes, our test car has a much wider overall gear ratio spread (Eco: 7.0; all other 1.4-liter cars: 5.8; and 5.2 for the 1.8-liter) to keep revs as low as possible. It shares a 3.83 axle ratio, but critically has three overdrive gears and a very tall sixth gear (0.61)."

Read more: 2012 Chevrolet Cruze Eco First Test - Motor Trend

Those are both auto magazines. Both are using overdrive in a way that directly contradicts your claim.

I'm making grammatical and typographical errors that do not undermine my point. You are making a semantic argument that is fundamentally flawed.

 

And I pay no attention to anyone who uses "Wikipedia" as a defense of his opinion simply because it contains information from the same dumbasses making wrong statements in this thread. You can find support for the most idiotic point of view somewhere on the Internet. That support does not make your belief a fact. The fact that your modern transmission now has a wide variety of gear ratios from which you, or the ECU, can select to match engine rpm to driving conditions does not make it an "overdrive" transmission. To state that fourth and fifth gear are "overdrive" is stupid in the extreme. If you are going to pretend to be an expert on car forums, you really need some education and experience to back up your claims.

There is a cure for ignorance. It is education and/or practical experience. Stupidity is the inability to learn. There is no cure for "stupid".

 

Citing Motortrend and Car and Driver is not the same as citing wikipedia. Moreover, I pulled my in-depth definition from the Apple dictionary app, which is using the New Oxford American Dictionary as its source. Admittedly, for a technical reference it isn't the best source, especially if other mainstream publications use a different definition. But given that car-centric publication like Motortrend and Car and Driver are using the same definition, I'd say you are wrong.

 

A transmission with overdrive increases gas mileage and reduces engine... | Car Talk

Admittedly these guys are morons and all, but at some level you have to admit the are reasonably authoritative.
Note that they also define overdrive exclusive based on gear ratios and say that virtually all 5 speed transmissions involve an overdrive.