Definitely concur. ABS is there to help you. Locking up the wheels and skidding into the back of the car in front just because you thought you could pump faster than the ABS is dangerous.

Unless you are a professional racer I wouldn't advise Threshold Braking.


Why not just let ABS do it's job?

 

Anti-lock brakes are what help tread the line between static and kinetic friction.



Invest in a set of narrow winter tires and slow down. Do not disable ABS.

 

Yea, I had found finito's post. Does the GD have that same ABS line? I'd really like to tap into the line and install a switch since I'm pretty sure there are insurance implications. I'd consider leaving the ABS on at highway speeds but would love to switch it off around town.

 

I have Michelin X ice 2 tires which are supposed to be among the top of the line tires available along with Nokian Hakas and Blizzaks. I keep them properly inflated.

I drive at the same speed if not slower than most drivers on the road. If you watch my original video, the Mercedes gets far ahead of me every time we take off. I was right behind it at the previous stop and had a good 4-5 cars distance before the ABS went bonkers. It seems to be a known problem with the Fit.

To all those that say slow down: get it into your mind that I live in Montreal, Canada and there is snow/slush on the ground for like 4 months! Everyone drives about 10 to 15 Km/h under the speed limit 50. That's exactly what you see in the video I posted. I'm not going 50 on snow covered roads and I'm not doing anything unusual. I believe that the ABS braking system is waaaay too sensitive on the Fit and it seems I'm not the first to complain about it. I'm not gonna drive at 20 km/h holding up traffic and having everyone honk at me.

I'm used to winter driving and I love it personally. It's a nice challenge and of course one must be safe at all times and keep greater distances from other vehicles. The bottom line is that with my winter tires I have total confidence in my car and my ability to control it the at speed which I drive (same speed as the flow of traffic) but I drive in constant fear of ABS. My current way of dealing with ABS is to ride the brakes and threshold brake right under the point ABS would engage. I'd rather disable ABS (at low speeds) for peace of mind and so that I can drive safely without constantly fighting with the system and constantly trying to use special techniques to "trick it" into not engaging. I'd also like to avoid "riding" my brakes I don't want to overheat them. Also, I'd like to be able to brake suddenly at low speeds, it might save someone's life.

 

residential speed limit is 31 mph? here in the US its only 25 mph, and we drive below that when there's snow on the ground. i know you are in canada and they scoff at snow, but still frequency of snow does not trump the laws of physics. drive slower.

 

A couple of people complaining is not the same as a "known problem." Disabling the ABS, the same ABS that does it's job at higher speeds, is not going to fix what you describe.

The slip angle sensors don't just go "well guys the VSS says we are under 20mph, let's just f*ck off till things pick up again."

 

Did you say you have a GD? Maybe it's different for the GE, but up in Edmonton we get several feet of snow on top of solid packed ice, I can tell you that when abs comes on for me, braking definitely increases.

You have to drive MUCH slower than usual in these conditions, there's just no way around it. Plus you need good winter tires, the x-ices you have are really good.

And I'm with the other guys: for the sake of other drivers, do not disable your ABS! Just drive slowly and more gently. Swinging around corners and gunning it from stopped lights is just not possible in our Canadian winters

 

Yes it will. If I can hydraulically lock the wheels via the brakes, at about 15-20 km/h I can stop in about a cars length. At the same speed, the sensors will detect a locked wheel at will keep the wheels turning and I'll stop in a good 3 cars length. That can be the difference between running over a pedestrian.

I don't brake like that because it's not good technique. But in general I'd like to be able to stop more quickly. I came close to rear ending that Mercedez for no reason. I don't want to have to deal with an insurance claim if someone stops suddenly in front of me.

The slip angle sensors are simply too sensitive. I don't think the honda Fit was tested enough, on snow. I mean my parents matrix R has twice the power and handles like tugboat but it at least can brake in a reasonable distance, even with ABS.

 

This and assume everyone else will slip around you. Driving distance, drive slower, and letting off the gas to slow down rather than the brakes makes a difference. Better than to step on the brakes to stop "fast."

 

Man, you Americans are cracking me up "Assume everyone else will slip around you". That's pretty much the assumption when you are slip sliding around town with a foot of snow absolutely everywhere in the city!

Driving distance is exactly the reason why I didn't rear end the Mercedez. I'm a good 3 4 car lengths behind the Benz and I started to apply the brakes approaching the stop sign and at about 2 car lengths I presume my ABS went into ice mode because my car continues to travel towards the Benz as if I wasn't even braking at all! I mean, watch the video, it's almost as if I was accelerating towards the Benz. Unfortunately, you can't know how early I started braking; you probably think I waited until the last second to brake but I didn't. I started braking about when the Benz had its brake light on (which is much earlier than the Benz). Remember the speeds are in km not miles. Just look at how the Benz torches me after the first stop sign, I'm not even close to catching up to it (nor was that my intention).

So basically, the proposed solution is to drive slower, perhaps at 15km/H and keep my distance, perhaps 6-8 car lengths? I mean come on! I am driving slowly and I don't expect to stop on a dime, it's just that the ABS goes into ice mode too easily. People on Edmunds report their car refusing to brake even just pulling out of their driveway. That's exactly the problem I'm encountering, the total loss of braking at sub 15 km/h situations. I'd never put myself in a situation where I had to stop suddenly on snow at over 50km/h.

So basically, we've concluded that I drive like total maniac at 30km/h and keeping 4 car lengths distance between me and the car in front. So to be constructive, can someone tell me if the cable that my fellow Montrealer Finito found is in the same place for the GD model?

 

What tires are you using in the video? I didn't read this thread that thoroughly, but it seems like you got the winter tires after shooting this video.

It gets just as bad as that and worse in Edmonton, and i am definitely able to stop much faster than you did. Maybe it's a problem with the GD?

Going from 30 km/h to stop never takes that long for me when abs kicks in. Even if I hit a super icy patch.

Do you have a ton of weight in your car? Reducing it can help your stopping distances too.

 

Unfortunately, I do not know if the GD and GE share the same setup, I didn't realize you had a GD because I did a bad job at paying attention. If you still want to disable the ABS I would think disconnecting any of the sensors would disable all of them... disconnecting in the cabin is convenient because it avoids getting dirt in the connectors. Your ABS light will probably be on and yes your insurance will tell you to GFY if you get in an accident.

The sad thing is I used to drive 4000 lb cars in the snow on all-seasons and was able to stop faster than that without ABS... maybe it's a different kind of snow or something, idk. Something seems strange with that video and I don't know if it's the car, how you apply the brakes, the nature of the snow (packed or ice or whatever), tires or what.

Not that I was an expert in snow driving or anything, i've had to rock out of snowbanks more than once and hit a few poles, so...

 

Nope. I've got brand new Michelin X Ice 2 tires mounted on 14" OEM Integra rims (made by Enkei). They are on their 1st winter. Probably done 300 miles with em if that. Don't think I have a ton of weight. I have an electric guitar and an acoustic guitar (both in soft shell cases) and a bass in a cardboard style cheapo case. Got a jug of washer fluid, a shovel, traction aids, snow clearer/scraper... I don't think I have even 100lbs in the back.

I mean, I understand that the goal of ABS is to keep the wheels turning but it just kills my breaking in a straight line on snow. Obviously, I'm not expecting to pump faster than ABS but pumping the brakes (manually) is not a good idea on snow because you can start to spin out.

If I use the hand brake my cars stops so suddenly that my whole body leans forwards. So that means the traction is available and the sudden stopping is possible, but then ABS is preventing that and making my car just mosey on forward? I'd just rather disable the system and have it like it was in my '93 Saturn.

 

It is a known fact that stopping distances on gravel and snow and longer with ABS than without. That being said, there's longer and then there's "OMFG, I'm gonna hit this car at 5mph because I'm just not slowing down". If you are stopping quickly on snow you will most certainly get some wheel locking which is what makes ABS somewhat inefficient on these surfaces.

Like I said, I'm not expecting to drive at 60mph and then stop on a dime on a patch of ice. I have many years winter driving experience and have never hit a pole or another car but since acquiring my Fit I've been in scary situations 4 or 5 times when my brakes seem to just quit. I just want to remove these situations from my driving experience.

I know I can't call my insurance company and ask them whether it's ok to disable ABS but if I have a switch can switch it to the on position if ever I did get in an accident. First time I ever got in an*accident was in my Fit and go figure, someone cut me off and I couldn't stop in time. Just rolled into a minor bumper scrape. The Matrix that cut me off was fine and me and my shitty Honda paint was all scraped off. I'd rather avoid these situations altogether with shorter stopping distances. Someone cut me off in a similar situation in my '93 Saturn and I was able to screetch my tires and avoided the accident with about a foot to spare.

Honestly, insurance is so retarded in Quebec, they probably wouldn't even be bothered to look at the car to see if any mods had been done. I'd really like to have a switch and to have peace of mind in the winter. I'd probably leave ABS on in the summer though, since it is a proven system.

 

I'd have to wonder if you have a defect. Mine does not behave at all in a way that would cause me to be afraid of my stopping distances, quite the opposite in fact. And yes, we routinely have road conditions a lot like in that video. I have the 3rd gen xices, so maybe they grip a little better..

Maybe the dealership could perform tests on your fit to see if it's operating within spec.

 

I drive a GD.

Through WI winters, which I imagine are similar to Canadian winters.

I've never once had an issue stopping in timely manner, with ABS.

That said, I'm smart enough to leave most of my slowing to engine braking.

Although, I'm only on cheap General All-Seasons, either I'm Petter Solberg or you're a very dangerous/careless driver.

 

Dude, at least watch the video. I'm a very careful driver. Who do you think you are to judge like that? Plus, there is no way your winter compares to canadian winters or you'd probably be running winter tires. I too am smart enough to take advantage of engine breaking but down shifting isn't always the solution when you are already going at about 30 km/h. Even second gear won't slow you down that much from that speed.

Also, answer this: why is it that me and another poster noticed that we can greatly reduce our stopping distance by using the handbrake? Shouldn't ABS be helping us stop as quickly as possible? Why is it that my car just keeps moving at 10km/h and then when I apply the parking brake I come to a halt instantly as if on dry pavement? Perhaps my ABS sensors do have an issue, I don't know. I have an ultraguage and have never even seen a pending code come through yet.

Anyway, don't think there's much intelligent debate left in this discussion, I'd rather focus on the location of the ABS system wires/fuse to see how I can install a switch.

 

No idea, makes no sense to me. Locking up wheels does for me what it does for the rest of the world, lengthens stopping distances.

As for snow, I got 7-8" in the last two days, drove my 30 mile commute like it was no big deal on all-seasons.

Cliffs: WI > Canada

Double Cliffs: America.

 

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehicle...2_e-215.htm#is

I guess those guys at Transport Canada (Canadian NTSB) have no idea what they are talking about. I'm not trying to argue that ABS is bad in and of itself; if it was so bad why would it be standard on all modern vehicles, right? However, I believe the way the sensors are reacting in my car is abnormal and too sensitive. They're definitely not helping me stop more quickly on snow. If you do a little searching, Edmunds is littered with comments from people that have about the same problems braking as me in their Fits. Some say that replacing the ABS sensors will do the trick.

So like I said earlier, I'd rather focus on a solution to bypass the system for snow driving. I've read in another thread on fitfreak that if you disable the ABS with the fuse then you also lose power steering. Is that why Finito disabled ABS with the line under the passenger side mat?

 

mtlian, what was your last car? you said your previous car did not have ABS. interwebz say ABS became standard in 1991. just curious =p