Restaurant Workers Got Masks. They’d Also Like a Permanent Raise
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 515
From: Over There
https://www.ocregister.com/2019/12/2...um-wage-hikes/
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...the-resta.aspx
https://www.wsj.com/articles/seattle...ts-11576195087
https://www.usnews.com/news/national...wage-increases
https://www.abc10.com/article/news/l...9-130356251aaa
https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2019...wage-increase/
https://mynorthwest.com/1536621/rant...minimum-wage/?
https://www.restaurantbusinessonline...gs-study-finds
This is true and it hits home. My little daughter has special needs and I do have concerns about her earning potential later in life. She is smart, but very much behind her peers. It brings up the 'value' question. She has infinite value, but her labor will not. What she deserves in life, to me, is beyond measure, but what her eventual labor can earn is another matter. That's just how the world works and I have no utopian delusions that it can, or even should, work differently.
Thanks for the discussion so far - it is always enlightening to read the banter on various topics. My only contribution to the original topic - I remember reading an article stating where, after some employees were given a raise from the minimum wage, they requested fewer working hours. The idea was that the bump in pay would cause them to lose government benefits associated with their low-income status.
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 515
From: Over There
If you had told me twenty years ago that people could be well-compensated for posting pictures and videos of themselves online (outside of the scope of adult-entertainment), I would have pooh-pooh'd you. The world changes pretty quick these days, so there is a good possibility for your daughter's work/labor to be unencumbered by her special needs in the future. The onus is on us to pave the way for our children. I try to maintain the idea to my kids to focus on what they can do, rather than what they are told, or think, they cannot do. It sounds like your daughter has a great father who she can rely on for guidance and support.
Thanks for the discussion so far - it is always enlightening to read the banter on various topics. My only contribution to the original topic - I remember reading an article stating where, after some employees were given a raise from the minimum wage, they requested fewer working hours. The idea was that the bump in pay would cause them to lose government benefits associated with their low-income status.
Thanks for the discussion so far - it is always enlightening to read the banter on various topics. My only contribution to the original topic - I remember reading an article stating where, after some employees were given a raise from the minimum wage, they requested fewer working hours. The idea was that the bump in pay would cause them to lose government benefits associated with their low-income status.
There is a tipping point for some that when they are compensated more become ineligible for benefits. What you describe is sometimes abuse of the program but also sometimes just the economics of working the same amount but actually taking home less pay when the tipping point is reached. The issue is partly the reliance on benefits. For those that can work, they are intended to be a safety net, not long term. There are many variables that make paying for an increasingly expensive world difficult. Unfortunately, politicians only want to make everything more expensive, sometimes dramatically. This can only exacerbate the problem. (some more conspiracy-minded say that's the intent)
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 604
From: Northern Illinois
I agree to a certain extent. I also have no formal training in my field.
This is true and it hits home. My little daughter has special needs and I do have concerns about her earning potential later in life. She is smart, but very much behind her peers. It brings up the 'value' question. She has infinite value, but her labor will not. What she deserves in life, to me, is beyond measure, but what her eventual labor can earn is another matter. That's just how the world works and I have no utopian delusions that it can, or even should, work differently.
This is true and it hits home. My little daughter has special needs and I do have concerns about her earning potential later in life. She is smart, but very much behind her peers. It brings up the 'value' question. She has infinite value, but her labor will not. What she deserves in life, to me, is beyond measure, but what her eventual labor can earn is another matter. That's just how the world works and I have no utopian delusions that it can, or even should, work differently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Beach,_Missouri
Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 604
From: Northern Illinois
Getting a college degree means one can generally learn at a higher level and is capable of completing something that was started. Two skills employers look for. Everyone knows exceptions. Lazy people who have degrees, near genius who didn't finish high school. What's the point? Unless it's an internal applicant most HR people or hiring managers don't have much to go on so they go with they know.
I didn't read all the posts in the tread so I don't know or really care what your views on auto workers are. I've supervised in an auto factory. Even though most jobs were designed to be learned in five minutes or less, I personally think they are paid a fair wage for what they were doing. It's HOT in the summer, cold in the winter, repetitious, some jobs suck such as bumper install. Try lifting and installing a heavy or awkward shaped part 650 times in an ten hour day.
You are correct. Getting a degree does not indicate you can learn anything but when you don't know the person and you are interviewing them for the first time it shows that there is a high probability that they have some aptitude. I know some very smart people that only graduated high school and I know some not so smart people that have degrees.
I'm not saying that people don't deserve a living wage I'm saying that serving food and working in fast food is not a skilled job.
I'm not saying that people don't deserve a living wage I'm saying that serving food and working in fast food is not a skilled job.
I've interviewed a fair number of folks, some fresh out of college, some older than my parents, others in between....I found zero relationship between college, work experience, whatever and how the person came across in interviews. My view on the role was that I wanted to hire the person with the best social skills & that could answer my questions with responses beyond jargon most quickly. In my experience that was the best way to do the job & do it well. College doesn't really help with that.
This is absolutely true, especially since most colleges will pass any twit that still pays their tuition. I have encountered many credentialed but intellectually uncurious people as well as many people educated beyond their intelligence.
That's not the right question. It isn't 'Should people doing X be paid a living wage'.
'Living wage' is a political, not a practical term. Especially because cost of living is highly variable and nobody can define what a 'living wage' actually means without devolving into philosophical vagueries about what people 'deserve' and begin to manufacture 'rights' out of whole cloth.
Labor has value. Staying in the context of physical labor, 40 hours per week of deep-frying potatoes does not have the same value as 40 hours of skilled welding.
The idea thrown about by demagogic politicians that "anybody that works 40 hours a week deserves a 'living wage'" is fallacious because the statement does not take into account the value of one's labor in any way whatsoever. People are paid what their labor is worth. Period. The attempt to frame it any other way is purely for intellectually dishonest political purposes.
That's not the right question. It isn't 'Should people doing X be paid a living wage'.
'Living wage' is a political, not a practical term. Especially because cost of living is highly variable and nobody can define what a 'living wage' actually means without devolving into philosophical vagueries about what people 'deserve' and begin to manufacture 'rights' out of whole cloth.
Labor has value. Staying in the context of physical labor, 40 hours per week of deep-frying potatoes does not have the same value as 40 hours of skilled welding.
The idea thrown about by demagogic politicians that "anybody that works 40 hours a week deserves a 'living wage'" is fallacious because the statement does not take into account the value of one's labor in any way whatsoever. People are paid what their labor is worth. Period. The attempt to frame it any other way is purely for intellectually dishonest political purposes.
It is just my view that someone working 40 hours a week should be able to put a roof over their head, see a doctor when they're sick or injured and feed themselves.
Preferably without the government being forced to fill the gap between what the companies pay & what the employees need (look at Wal-Mart, they pay near nothing to the government but the gov't has to pay out millions upon millions to make up for Wal-Mart underpaying its labor force).
I agree to a certain extent. I also have no formal training in my field.
I got a relatively worthless degree at a good private college. I loved it while I went to school for it, but it was not the most...practical degree.
Post-college, I've done a lot of very different stuff. Waited tables, sold cars, sold electronics, worked in highly skilled manufacturing (led my department), now work in technology.
For none of the above did I have any formal training. But the level of skill has varied wildly. My current level is a result of years of practical knowledge and experience and I'm paid for earning that and leveraging that.
It's not the degree or skilled/unskilled (traditional type) that matters in a lot of ways, but the amount of skill, knowledge, wisdom it takes to do a job well. That's what separates unskilled from skilled in many situations.
To wait tables, I mastered the necessary skills in a very short time. For my skilled manufacturing job, it took a few years. For my current position, it has taken many years of experience to gain the discernment I need to do my job well. Wages should be commensurate with the literal skill needed to perform the position. That should be obvious, but politicians don't seem to think so.
This is true and it hits home. My little daughter has special needs and I do have concerns about her earning potential later in life. She is smart, but very much behind her peers. It brings up the 'value' question. She has infinite value, but her labor will not. What she deserves in life, to me, is beyond measure, but what her eventual labor can earn is another matter. That's just how the world works and I have no utopian delusions that it can, or even should, work differently.
I got a relatively worthless degree at a good private college. I loved it while I went to school for it, but it was not the most...practical degree.
Post-college, I've done a lot of very different stuff. Waited tables, sold cars, sold electronics, worked in highly skilled manufacturing (led my department), now work in technology.
For none of the above did I have any formal training. But the level of skill has varied wildly. My current level is a result of years of practical knowledge and experience and I'm paid for earning that and leveraging that.
It's not the degree or skilled/unskilled (traditional type) that matters in a lot of ways, but the amount of skill, knowledge, wisdom it takes to do a job well. That's what separates unskilled from skilled in many situations.
To wait tables, I mastered the necessary skills in a very short time. For my skilled manufacturing job, it took a few years. For my current position, it has taken many years of experience to gain the discernment I need to do my job well. Wages should be commensurate with the literal skill needed to perform the position. That should be obvious, but politicians don't seem to think so.
This is true and it hits home. My little daughter has special needs and I do have concerns about her earning potential later in life. She is smart, but very much behind her peers. It brings up the 'value' question. She has infinite value, but her labor will not. What she deserves in life, to me, is beyond measure, but what her eventual labor can earn is another matter. That's just how the world works and I have no utopian delusions that it can, or even should, work differently.
Why? Just because you want the people making it to have a nebulous 'living wage'?
And object sold has a value that is the sum of everything that goes into producing it.
If those costs raise the price beyond the perceived value of the buyer, they will stop buying the product.
Personally, I'm not going to buy a $12 Big Mac out of the goodness of my heart. It's objectively not worth that.
Raise the price beyond the point at which the customers are willing to pay, then the company folds and nobody has a 'living wage'.
And object sold has a value that is the sum of everything that goes into producing it.
If those costs raise the price beyond the perceived value of the buyer, they will stop buying the product.
Personally, I'm not going to buy a $12 Big Mac out of the goodness of my heart. It's objectively not worth that.
Raise the price beyond the point at which the customers are willing to pay, then the company folds and nobody has a 'living wage'.
I'm not asking for them to be a non-profit, but there's room to avoid that while letting your employees contribute to the economy.
My cousin was a product of Times Beach. She has an IQ of 140 but rides her 3 wheeled bicycle to work at the local grocery store where she has worked as a bagger most of her life. She reads allot and has an outstanding vocabulary, can do any math problem with ease but struggles with normal life issues / stress. Last time I had seen her she had a mini breakdown because she couldn't find her favorite wash cloth. Society seems to have a distaste for lower skill level jobs and those employees making anything over minimum wage doing it. Typical response is that's a starter job, learn a skill, go to college or whatever and get a better job. The new trend is replace those jobs with a order kiosk or self checkout so they can still buy their "hamburger" for $1. Anyway, not everyone is born or equipped to do more than basic jobs. An extra $100 a week would go along way to increasing the quality of life of workers like my cousin. I don't really know where I was going with this, but can empathize with your situation. She's my cousin and it bothers me, I can't imagine what it would be like if it were my child? Sorry for the ostentatious pontification.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Beach,_Missouri
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Beach,_Missouri
Getting a college degree means one can generally learn at a higher level and is capable of completing something that was started. Two skills employers look for. Everyone knows exceptions. Lazy people who have degrees, near genius who didn't finish high school. What's the point? Unless it's an internal applicant most HR people or hiring managers don't have much to go on so they go with they know.
I didn't read all the posts in the tread so I don't know or really care what your views on auto workers are. I've supervised in an auto factory. Even though most jobs were designed to be learned in five minutes or less, I personally think they are paid a fair wage for what they were doing. It's HOT in the summer, cold in the winter, repetitious, some jobs suck such as bumper install. Try lifting and installing a heavy or awkward shaped part 650 times in an ten hour day.
I didn't read all the posts in the tread so I don't know or really care what your views on auto workers are. I've supervised in an auto factory. Even though most jobs were designed to be learned in five minutes or less, I personally think they are paid a fair wage for what they were doing. It's HOT in the summer, cold in the winter, repetitious, some jobs suck such as bumper install. Try lifting and installing a heavy or awkward shaped part 650 times in an ten hour day.
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 547
From: Sacramento, CA
An extra $100 a week would go along way to increasing the quality of life of workers like my cousin. I don't really know where I was going with this, but can empathize with your situation. She's my cousin and it bothers me, I can't imagine what it would be like if it were my child? Sorry for the ostentatious pontification.
What you mentioned in regards to this extra $ for the workers is also what I was suggesting. The money received would be going back into the economy for the most part. This ends up benefiting far more people than just the receiver.
I was more so talking food workers in a non-fast food environment as skilled labor.
I've interviewed a fair number of folks, some fresh out of college, some older than my parents, others in between....I found zero relationship between college, work experience, whatever and how the person came across in interviews. My view on the role was that I wanted to hire the person with the best social skills & that could answer my questions with responses beyond jargon most quickly. In my experience that was the best way to do the job & do it well. College doesn't really help with that.
I've interviewed a fair number of folks, some fresh out of college, some older than my parents, others in between....I found zero relationship between college, work experience, whatever and how the person came across in interviews. My view on the role was that I wanted to hire the person with the best social skills & that could answer my questions with responses beyond jargon most quickly. In my experience that was the best way to do the job & do it well. College doesn't really help with that.
Also some jobs pay more just based off of what you are responsible for. I work in a manufacturing environment and the line operators don’t have to do much physical or mentally challenging work but they do have to sign off on papers that the FDA and OSHA keep track off. They could be responsible for a massive recall if they do not do their job correctly.
Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 515
From: Over There
My cousin was a product of Times Beach. She has an IQ of 140 but rides her 3 wheeled bicycle to work at the local grocery store where she has worked as a bagger most of her life. She reads allot and has an outstanding vocabulary, can do any math problem with ease but struggles with normal life issues / stress. Last time I had seen her she had a mini breakdown because she couldn't find her favorite wash cloth. Society seems to have a distaste for lower skill level jobs and those employees making anything over minimum wage doing it. Typical response is that's a starter job, learn a skill, go to college or whatever and get a better job. The new trend is replace those jobs with a order kiosk or self checkout so they can still buy their "hamburger" for $1. Anyway, not everyone is born or equipped to do more than basic jobs. An extra $100 a week would go along way to increasing the quality of life of workers like my cousin. I don't really know where I was going with this, but can empathize with your situation. She's my cousin and it bothers me, I can't imagine what it would be like if it were my child? Sorry for the ostentatious pontification.
Having a special needs child is more difficult for my wife than me. I care less about what other people think. We both believe my daughter is exactly as she is made to be. She's an absolute joy to us and everyone who meets her. I wouldn't change a thing about her for my own sake, only to save her from any grief she may encounter in life. I feel not a shred of pity towards her because she's friggin' wonderful.
That. Yes.
Thank you.
Absolutely true. I'm the department head at my place of employment. High responsibility.
Manufacturers of specialized equipment like medical devices must follow critically important procedures, standards, and regulatory frameworks, otherwise people die. The assembly may not necessarily be work of the highest skill, but the processes must be very tight. That costs money and the work must be near perfect. That kind of responsibility rightly demands higher pay.
Last edited by sneefy; Apr 10, 2020 at 05:23 PM.
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