I guess the benefit of the electric is that the
force is always 250ft-lbs, versus air impact
which may reduce in strength as the compressor
attempts to keep up with the demand for more
air! Thats the prob I had, even though I had a
650ft-lb air wrench, the compressor couldn't
even keep up for 10 seconds.

t

 

Nightdude wrote:
> By the time you're ready to get a new car, the Honda Jazz will be out and I
> bet it will
> get better milleage than the Echo with nicer features.

from what ive read. its supposed to be out this september. or at least
introduced this fall, maybe for a spring '06 release. i rememer
researching the EU model, and its got some trick back seats that fold
flat. right in time for the current gas crunch, too. i bet it sells
well. so basically, good luck getting one at a sane price.

might make dealers more willing to deal on echos, though.

 

Thanks for the tip. I hadn't heard of this, so I googled. I see it's
currently a 1.4 liter engine. That's a good start, AFAIC. And 83 hp! Ha ha
ha... um, but if it gets over 40 mpg, fine. :-)

Dunno whether it's available anywhere in the U.S. yet, like you imply. The
hits I got seemed to be from Japanese and UK oriented sites, in general.

"Nightdude" <nightdude@rogers.com> wrote
> By the time you're ready to get a new car, the Honda Jazz will be out and
I
> bet it will
> get better milleage than the Echo with nicer features.

 

By the time you're ready to get a new car, the Honda Jazz will be out and I
bet it will
get better milleage than the Echo with nicer features.


"Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:AT_9e.10183$yq6.1803@newsread3.news.pas.earth link.net...
> "SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
>> Elle wrote:
>> >
>> > I have my eye on the Toyota Echo as my next car.
>>
>> no, no, noooooooo! for gods sake, no!
>>
>> at least check out the scion xA and xB. more useable room, more
>> features, and its got real 15" wheels on it. same platform and
>> drivetrain, too.
>>
>> the echo is just plain dorky and gangly looking.
>
> I think we've been over this before. I'm pretty sure it was the Echo's
> price
> and I think better fuel mileage that still makes me lean its way. Or I
> can't
> get a Scion where I live easily? Can't remember.
>
> Scion xA 32/37 mpg
> xB 31/34
>
> Echo 35/42
>
>
> Anyway, I'm aiming for around four more years on my Civic. It's doing
> pretty
> well now that I have it out West, away from those northern winters and all
> that road salt. As I've said many a time now.
>
>

 

Elle wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote
>
>>Elle wrote:
>>
>>>"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote
>>>E wrote
>>>Re loosening the crankshaft pulley bolt on Hooooooondas --
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Can you clarify? Do you mean you used a 3/4" drive socket, too? Or did
>>>
>>>you
>>>
>>>
>>>>>use an adapter to go from the 3/4" drive extension to 1/2" socket?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>3/4" > 1/2" adapter. also worth mention is that the 17mm-1/2" socket i
>>>>have snugly fits the hole in the holding tool - helps keep everything in
>>>>place.
>>>
>>>
>>>Then excellent tip.
>>>
>>>Anyone want to buy a 1/2" drive breaker bar and two ten-inch long, 1/2"
>>>drive extenders?
>>>
>>>Shucks, I likely will only do one more timing belt change on my beloved
>
> 1991
>
>>>Civic anyway. I'll just buy better health insurance for the period that
>
> will
>
>>>include when I do the job.
>>>
>>
>>but elle, you'll end up buying another honda, maybe even the new crx
>>when it comes out, so you may as well buy the tool you /know/ you
>>crave... cheaper than the health insurance too!
>
>
> Ha ha. :-)
>
> I have my eye on the Toyota Echo as my next car. (I don't think I'll buy
> anything with an engine larger than 1.5 Liter.) But, hey, do the 2005 Honda
> Civics have the same nasty crankshaft bolt setup?

unless the cam is chain driven, i guess yes. i tried the toyota corolla
& camry a while ago. perfectly decent cars, but oh so boring. and
subaru aren't much to talk about either. i tested the older style wrx
and was very disappointed. my 2000 civic handles better. i hope there
was something wrong with the wrx too because it didn't have the 0-30
acceleration of the honda at all. maybe it was just too new & too stiff.

>
> I've been presuming the last several years that whatever new car I buy is
> going to be very different from my old 1991 Civic. VTEC, maybe no
> distributor, etc.

 

"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> Elle wrote:
> >
> > I have my eye on the Toyota Echo as my next car.
>
> no, no, noooooooo! for gods sake, no!
>
> at least check out the scion xA and xB. more useable room, more
> features, and its got real 15" wheels on it. same platform and
> drivetrain, too.
>
> the echo is just plain dorky and gangly looking.

I think we've been over this before. I'm pretty sure it was the Echo's price
and I think better fuel mileage that still makes me lean its way. Or I can't
get a Scion where I live easily? Can't remember.

Scion xA 32/37 mpg
xB 31/34

Echo 35/42


Anyway, I'm aiming for around four more years on my Civic. It's doing pretty
well now that I have it out West, away from those northern winters and all
that road salt. As I've said many a time now.

 

Oh thank you mike; that's way MORE than enough to convince me not to
even think about attempting it myself! I've changed belts in other
devices (like washing machines) and thought "Hey, how hard can it be to
change a belt....".

 

Elle wrote:
>
> I have my eye on the Toyota Echo as my next car.

no, no, noooooooo! for gods sake, no!

at least check out the scion xA and xB. more useable room, more
features, and its got real 15" wheels on it. same platform and
drivetrain, too.

the echo is just plain dorky and gangly looking.

 

"Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6KN9e.9712$yq6.3430@newsread3.news.pas.earthl ink.net...

> I have my eye on the Toyota Echo as my next car. (I don't think I'll buy
> anything with an engine larger than 1.5 Liter.) But, hey, do the 2005
> Honda
> Civics have the same nasty crankshaft bolt setup?
>
I think just about all cars have the stubborn crankshaft bolt. Most cars can
be done with the "bump the starter" technique, but I did it once on a Toyota
and it was pretty scary.

Mike

 

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote
> Elle wrote:
> > "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote
> > E wrote
> > Re loosening the crankshaft pulley bolt on Hooooooondas --
> >
> >>>Can you clarify? Do you mean you used a 3/4" drive socket, too? Or did
> >
> > you
> >
> >>>use an adapter to go from the 3/4" drive extension to 1/2" socket?
> >>>
> >>
> >>3/4" > 1/2" adapter. also worth mention is that the 17mm-1/2" socket i
> >>have snugly fits the hole in the holding tool - helps keep everything in
> >>place.
> >
> >
> > Then excellent tip.
> >
> > Anyone want to buy a 1/2" drive breaker bar and two ten-inch long, 1/2"
> > drive extenders?
> >
> > Shucks, I likely will only do one more timing belt change on my beloved
1991
> > Civic anyway. I'll just buy better health insurance for the period that
will
> > include when I do the job.
> >
>
> but elle, you'll end up buying another honda, maybe even the new crx
> when it comes out, so you may as well buy the tool you /know/ you
> crave... cheaper than the health insurance too!

Ha ha. :-)

I have my eye on the Toyota Echo as my next car. (I don't think I'll buy
anything with an engine larger than 1.5 Liter.) But, hey, do the 2005 Honda
Civics have the same nasty crankshaft bolt setup?

I've been presuming the last several years that whatever new car I buy is
going to be very different from my old 1991 Civic. VTEC, maybe no
distributor, etc.

 

I need to make a decision quick between a 93 Acura Integra RS and a 96
Toyota Tercel (both about 188,000km on the odometer). I know they are
very different cars, and both have their appeal to me. I prefer the
comfort, performance and feeling of security (from accidents) you get
driving the Integra, but I like the economy (gas mileage) of the
Tercel. (I drove both around the block, and for what its worth, the
Tercel seems to have a very quiet engine and responsive steering). The
hanging question to help me decide is which car is more reliable, and
does one (ie. the Integra) cost far more than the other when it comes
to replacement parts?

I've researched reliability ratings on both these cars on MSN Autos
(the Tercel has a better record), but I'm not sure that the stats of
one site can be the final word on reliability, and there's nothing
there about parts prices. Can anyone answer these questions for
certain, from either research or experience? Thanks!

 

Elle wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote
> E wrote
> Re loosening the crankshaft pulley bolt on Hooooooondas --
>
>>>Can you clarify? Do you mean you used a 3/4" drive socket, too? Or did
>
> you
>
>>>use an adapter to go from the 3/4" drive extension to 1/2" socket?
>>>
>>
>>3/4" > 1/2" adapter. also worth mention is that the 17mm-1/2" socket i
>>have snugly fits the hole in the holding tool - helps keep everything in
>>place.
>
>
> Then excellent tip.
>
> Anyone want to buy a 1/2" drive breaker bar and two ten-inch long, 1/2"
> drive extenders?
>
> Shucks, I likely will only do one more timing belt change on my beloved 1991
> Civic anyway. I'll just buy better health insurance for the period that will
> include when I do the job.
>

but elle, you'll end up buying another honda, maybe even the new crx
when it comes out, so you may as well buy the tool you /know/ you
crave... cheaper than the health insurance too!

 

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote
E wrote
Re loosening the crankshaft pulley bolt on Hooooooondas --
> > Can you clarify? Do you mean you used a 3/4" drive socket, too? Or did
you
> > use an adapter to go from the 3/4" drive extension to 1/2" socket?
> >
> 3/4" > 1/2" adapter. also worth mention is that the 17mm-1/2" socket i
> have snugly fits the hole in the holding tool - helps keep everything in
> place.

Then excellent tip.

Anyone want to buy a 1/2" drive breaker bar and two ten-inch long, 1/2"
drive extenders?

Shucks, I likely will only do one more timing belt change on my beloved 1991
Civic anyway. I'll just buy better health insurance for the period that will
include when I do the job.

 

Elle wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote
> snip
>
>>in addition to the holding tool, i highly recommend a 3/4" breaker bar
>>with [most importantly] the 3/4" extension. like you, i recently tried
>>replacing my timing belt without air tools, and with a normal 1/2"
>>drive, i thought i was for sure going to break something. with the 3/4"
>>tools however, that bolt came loose immediately & without undue effort.
>
>
> Can you clarify? Do you mean you used a 3/4" drive socket, too? Or did you
> use an adapter to go from the 3/4" drive extension to 1/2" socket?
>
3/4" > 1/2" adapter. also worth mention is that the 17mm-1/2" socket i
have snugly fits the hole in the holding tool - helps keep everything in
place.

 

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote
snip
> in addition to the holding tool, i highly recommend a 3/4" breaker bar
> with [most importantly] the 3/4" extension. like you, i recently tried
> replacing my timing belt without air tools, and with a normal 1/2"
> drive, i thought i was for sure going to break something. with the 3/4"
> tools however, that bolt came loose immediately & without undue effort.

Can you clarify? Do you mean you used a 3/4" drive socket, too? Or did you
use an adapter to go from the 3/4" drive extension to 1/2" socket?

 

deleteme@posyrorer.mailshell.com wrote in
news:1114004192.954046.148650@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com:

> I forgot I had another question about this item... could I replace a
> timing belt myself, or does it require a mechanic to do so?
> I have very little experience working on car mechanics, but I'm
> competent when it comes to repairing stuff, so if its a simple job that
> doesn't require special tools or pulling out an engine block...
>


Not that hard. You just have to be very detail-oriented and do lots of
reading first. You can start here:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#crankbolt
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#beltmark

and for a pictorial howto,
http://timingbelt.soben.com/

Also an excellent idea is to buy the Helm manual and study the procedures
given there. Helm really is the very best.
www.helminc.com

Personally, I used a 250lb electric impact wrench rented for $10/day from
an industrial supply place. 30 seconds of back-and-forth and the bolt
buzzed right off. I was surprised it was so easy; not all of them are.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> <deleteme@posyrorer.mailshell.com> wrote in message
> news:1114004192.954046.148650@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
>
>>I forgot I had another question about this item... could I replace a
>>timing belt myself, or does it require a mechanic to do so?
>>I have very little experience working on car mechanics, but I'm
>>competent when it comes to repairing stuff, so if its a simple job that
>>doesn't require special tools or pulling out an engine block...
>>
>
> It is a beast. Actually, the one step that makes strong men cry is getting
> the crank bolt loose. Special tools are only part of the problem - the bolt
> is so tight that it usually takes a serious impact wrench to get it loose. I
> bought a 500 ft-lb air impact wrench and still had to buy a special tool to
> hold the crank pulley when we did the belt on my son's Acura. Of course, a
> torque wrench with 200 ft-lb capacity is required for reassembly

in addition to the holding tool, i highly recommend a 3/4" breaker bar
with [most importantly] the 3/4" extension. like you, i recently tried
replacing my timing belt without air tools, and with a normal 1/2"
drive, i thought i was for sure going to break something. with the 3/4"
tools however, that bolt came loose immediately & without undue effort.
[it was disapointing in a way because i'd even gone to the trouble of
buying a 5' "torque amplifier" just in case!] anyway, i wondered if i'd
perhaps loosened it with my 1/2" drive efforts earlier, but i did my
other civic a couple of weeks later & again, the bolt came loose
immediately with the 3/4" drive. very worthwhile investment. the 3/4"
extension bar is nearly 1" diameter solid tool steel. no torque-robbing
wind-up in that puppy!

>
> Important note: you can't use the shadetree trick of bracing a socket handle
> and bumping the starter to break the crank bolt loose... the engine turns
> the wrong way.
>
> But if you can get a shop to break the %^$#!! thing loose and retighten it
> enough to get you home, it isn't awful. Attention to detail - especially
> getting the belt on the same way it came off, not one tooth off on one
> sprocket even though the cam wants to turn - is important. If you get it
> wrong, or don't get the belt tensioned properly, you can do really serious
> damage (or at least have to start over).
>
> All told, you should give it a lot of thought if you want to DIY. I put it
> in the category of replacing a clutch - one with a *really* tight bolt
> holding something!.
>
> Mike
>
>

 

<deleteme@posyrorer.mailshell.com> wrote in message
news:1114004192.954046.148650@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
>I forgot I had another question about this item... could I replace a
> timing belt myself, or does it require a mechanic to do so?
> I have very little experience working on car mechanics, but I'm
> competent when it comes to repairing stuff, so if its a simple job that
> doesn't require special tools or pulling out an engine block...
>
It is a beast. Actually, the one step that makes strong men cry is getting
the crank bolt loose. Special tools are only part of the problem - the bolt
is so tight that it usually takes a serious impact wrench to get it loose. I
bought a 500 ft-lb air impact wrench and still had to buy a special tool to
hold the crank pulley when we did the belt on my son's Acura. Of course, a
torque wrench with 200 ft-lb capacity is required for reassembly

Important note: you can't use the shadetree trick of bracing a socket handle
and bumping the starter to break the crank bolt loose... the engine turns
the wrong way.

But if you can get a shop to break the %^$#!! thing loose and retighten it
enough to get you home, it isn't awful. Attention to detail - especially
getting the belt on the same way it came off, not one tooth off on one
sprocket even though the cam wants to turn - is important. If you get it
wrong, or don't get the belt tensioned properly, you can do really serious
damage (or at least have to start over).

All told, you should give it a lot of thought if you want to DIY. I put it
in the category of replacing a clutch - one with a *really* tight bolt
holding something!.

Mike

 

<deleteme@posyrorer.mailshell.com> wrote in message
news:1114003984.556962.151530@l41g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...

Can you know that the timing belt needs replacement by looking at it
for signs of wear, or do you just replace it every so many miles even
if it looks in perfect condition? I was told by a mechanic to replace
the timing belt immediately after any car purchase, so that I could
have a receipt that showed the date and mileage when it was replaced,
so I could know when to replace it the next time. But it seems to me a
grand waste of money to replace it if it is still in perfect working
condition.

Sometimes the belt shows signs of wear before it fails, but not often enough
to bet your engine on. Following the stated replacement intervals is the
only reasonably safe way to go - and even that has a finite risk. The
specified interval is probably the best balance of costs.

The big problem is that the belt doesn't usually break, but more often the
teeth break off. The layer that fails just isn't visible (even with the belt
off) so going by belt appearance is no more reliable than going by
appearance of the accelerator pedal.

I changed the belt on my (non-interference) Volvo engine way later than it
should have been. There were some tiny cracks in the outside surface, but it
looked good otherwise. However, I could pick the teeth off with my
thumbnail!

Mike

 

I forgot I had another question about this item... could I replace a
timing belt myself, or does it require a mechanic to do so?
I have very little experience working on car mechanics, but I'm
competent when it comes to repairing stuff, so if its a simple job that
doesn't require special tools or pulling out an engine block...