Henry Kolesnik wrote:
> On Saturday my wife and I both drove the 4 cylinder automatics and really
> like both the Honda and Toyota. I couldn't find any significant difference
> but my wife liked the looks of one better than the other and she can't
> recall which one because we also drove the Mitsubishi Galant, Hyundai
> Sonota, Toyota Matrix, and a PT Cruiser. The PT & Matrix is off our list
> and it's between Honda and Toyota because the other 2 Asian cars depreciate
> faster. Apart from emotions with prices, performace and features
> essentially the same what are factual reasons for selecting one over the
> other.

i like the matrix. sporty, 4 doors, toyota quality, hatch. insurance
companies might consider it a station wagon, meaning the rates are
lower. i like practical cars, and theres nothing much more practical
than a hatch, especially if youve ever had to make a trip to home depot
to bring home a door and a toilet.

 

In article <cvOdna83uoSMDwLfRVn-oQ@rogers.com>, "Pars"
<sdaro(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> news:elmop-F22CB0.06530602062005@nntp3.usenetserver.com...
> > In article <LeCdndVe9beqEAPfRVn-rA@rogers.com>,
> > "Pars" <sdaro(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > Hyundai is now where Honda and Toyota were in the mid to late 70s.
> > > >
> > > > Honda and Toyota better not get an attitude. Pride goeth before a
> fall.
> > > >
> > >
> > > In Canada, The 2005 Kia Spectrum was voted economy car of the year. The
> > > economy class, is the most hotly contest segment for the canucks (who
> have
> > > to put up with 15% sales tax and higher gas prices). The fact the
> Spectrum
> > > was able to take top honors is a huge success for the under dog company.
> > >
> > > Kia is a off-shoot from Hyundai and share mechanics (like the engine
> and
> > > chassis). The 2006 Elentra will probably be an improvement over the
> 2005
> > > Spectrum...and should be a car to be recon with.
> > >
> > > Hyundai is on Toyota&Honda's heels, not decades behind.
> >
> > Not technologically, necessarily, although they are building simpler
> > cars.
>
> The technology is on par. Hyundai's 4 bangers do come with the double
> overhead cam engine and variable valve timing.
>
> Hyundai doesn't have the experience or established parts producer to take
> their quality to the levels found in Toyota and Honda. Given the rapid
> improvements over succeeding generations, it shouldn't take long before they
> start becoming a player in the more influential comparisons test.
>
> Pars

Pars,
You may be right. Only time will tell. At one time in American history,
Ford and GM made the best cars. They dropped the ball. The same thing
could happen to Honda and Toyota. If they drop the ball, Hyundai and Kia
will be there to pick up the ball and run with it.
Jason

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

 

"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-0206050932250001@pm1-broad-65.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <elmop-F22CB0.06530602062005@nntp3.usenetserver.com>, "Elmo P.
> Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <LeCdndVe9beqEAPfRVn-rA@rogers.com>,
> > "Pars" <sdaro(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > Hyundai is now where Honda and Toyota were in the mid to late 70s.
> > > >
> > > > Honda and Toyota better not get an attitude. Pride goeth before a
fall.
> > > >
> > >
> > > In Canada, The 2005 Kia Spectrum was voted economy car of the year.
The
> > > economy class, is the most hotly contest segment for the canucks (who
have
> > > to put up with 15% sales tax and higher gas prices). The fact the
Spectrum
> > > was able to take top honors is a huge success for the under dog
company.
> > >
> > > Kia is a off-shoot from Hyundai and share mechanics (like the engine
and
> > > chassis). The 2006 Elentra will probably be an improvement over the
2005
> > > Spectrum...and should be a car to be recon with.
> > >
> > > Hyundai is on Toyota&Honda's heels, not decades behind.
> >
> > Not technologically, necessarily, although they are building simpler
> > cars.
> >
> > But in the consumer mindset, they certainly are.
>
> Interesting post. If Hyundai wants to compete with Honda and Toyota they
> will have to build vehicles that not only look as great as Honda and
> Toyota vehicles but also are as well built as Honda and Toyota vehicles.
> It's possible to easily get over 200,000 miles on Honda and Toyota
> vehicles if those vehicles are well maintained. When it is possible to
> easily get over 200,000 on Hyundai vehicles--at that point they will be on
> par with Honda and Toyota vehicles.

I believe the newer Hyundai can easily get over 200,000 miles or as well as
any other manufactures out there (exception being Toyota and Honda who have
totally proven themselves in that department).

This also applies to Kia and any other
> car company. Neither Hyundai or Kia has reached that point as of 2005.
>

I think they have reached 'the point', but I'm not 100% sure...I'll know
better next year. In my driving job, 3 of the other cars are Hyundai
variations from 2000 to 2005 (one bought used and the other two bought new).
Combined, they've already undergone about 160,000km with only oil changes
(the drives of those cars can't afford any of the fancy preventative
maintenance schedule, so their cars only get oil changes or break-work via
backyard mechanics). The only problem to report is a windshield fracture for
a 2004 Aveo (covered under insurance). The girl driving that car isn't happy
with the Aveo poor mileage (since we do about 5000km/month...mileage is a
huge issue) and is working on switching it for a 5 door Echo hatch. From my
calculation, she'd be saving about $60/month in fuel expense by switching to
the Toyota instead of the Kia. Which is weird considering both cars are
almost identical with similar stats and features.

Pars

> --
> NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
> We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
> We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
>
>
>

 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-F22CB0.06530602062005@nntp3.usenetserver.com...
> In article <LeCdndVe9beqEAPfRVn-rA@rogers.com>,
> "Pars" <sdaro(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hyundai is now where Honda and Toyota were in the mid to late 70s.
> > >
> > > Honda and Toyota better not get an attitude. Pride goeth before a
fall.
> > >
> >
> > In Canada, The 2005 Kia Spectrum was voted economy car of the year. The
> > economy class, is the most hotly contest segment for the canucks (who
have
> > to put up with 15% sales tax and higher gas prices). The fact the
Spectrum
> > was able to take top honors is a huge success for the under dog company.
> >
> > Kia is a off-shoot from Hyundai and share mechanics (like the engine
and
> > chassis). The 2006 Elentra will probably be an improvement over the
2005
> > Spectrum...and should be a car to be recon with.
> >
> > Hyundai is on Toyota&Honda's heels, not decades behind.
>
> Not technologically, necessarily, although they are building simpler
> cars.

The technology is on par. Hyundai's 4 bangers do come with the double
overhead cam engine and variable valve timing.

Hyundai doesn't have the experience or established parts producer to take
their quality to the levels found in Toyota and Honda. Given the rapid
improvements over succeeding generations, it shouldn't take long before they
start becoming a player in the more influential comparisons test.

Pars


>
> But in the consumer mindset, they certainly are.
>

 

In article <jason-0206050932250001@pm1-broad-65.snlo.dialup.fix.net>,
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> Interesting post. If Hyundai wants to compete with Honda and Toyota they
> will have to build vehicles that not only look as great as Honda and
> Toyota vehicles but also are as well built as Honda and Toyota vehicles.
> It's possible to easily get over 200,000 miles on Honda and Toyota
> vehicles if those vehicles are well maintained. When it is possible to
> easily get over 200,000 on Hyundai vehicles--at that point they will be on
> par with Honda and Toyota vehicles. This also applies to Kia and any other
> car company. Neither Hyundai or Kia has reached that point as of 2005.

Has anyone *tried* to get 200K miles on a Hyundai?

I smell a program opportunity here for Hyundai. They should create and
market a "club" for people to join, people who expect to keep their
cars. Make some sort of incentive for people to drive huge miles on
their Hyundai cars. Wrap it all up in a marketing campaign. Tie it in
with engineering, who can get real world evaluator cars to observe.

 

In article <elmop-F22CB0.06530602062005@nntp3.usenetserver.com>, "Elmo P.
Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

> In article <LeCdndVe9beqEAPfRVn-rA@rogers.com>,
> "Pars" <sdaro(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hyundai is now where Honda and Toyota were in the mid to late 70s.
> > >
> > > Honda and Toyota better not get an attitude. Pride goeth before a fall.
> > >
> >
> > In Canada, The 2005 Kia Spectrum was voted economy car of the year. The
> > economy class, is the most hotly contest segment for the canucks (who have
> > to put up with 15% sales tax and higher gas prices). The fact the Spectrum
> > was able to take top honors is a huge success for the under dog company.
> >
> > Kia is a off-shoot from Hyundai and share mechanics (like the engine and
> > chassis). The 2006 Elentra will probably be an improvement over the 2005
> > Spectrum...and should be a car to be recon with.
> >
> > Hyundai is on Toyota&Honda's heels, not decades behind.
>
> Not technologically, necessarily, although they are building simpler
> cars.
>
> But in the consumer mindset, they certainly are.

Interesting post. If Hyundai wants to compete with Honda and Toyota they
will have to build vehicles that not only look as great as Honda and
Toyota vehicles but also are as well built as Honda and Toyota vehicles.
It's possible to easily get over 200,000 miles on Honda and Toyota
vehicles if those vehicles are well maintained. When it is possible to
easily get over 200,000 on Hyundai vehicles--at that point they will be on
par with Honda and Toyota vehicles. This also applies to Kia and any other
car company. Neither Hyundai or Kia has reached that point as of 2005.

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

 

In article <LeCdndVe9beqEAPfRVn-rA@rogers.com>,
"Pars" <sdaro(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Hyundai is now where Honda and Toyota were in the mid to late 70s.
> >
> > Honda and Toyota better not get an attitude. Pride goeth before a fall.
> >
>
> In Canada, The 2005 Kia Spectrum was voted economy car of the year. The
> economy class, is the most hotly contest segment for the canucks (who have
> to put up with 15% sales tax and higher gas prices). The fact the Spectrum
> was able to take top honors is a huge success for the under dog company.
>
> Kia is a off-shoot from Hyundai and share mechanics (like the engine and
> chassis). The 2006 Elentra will probably be an improvement over the 2005
> Spectrum...and should be a car to be recon with.
>
> Hyundai is on Toyota&Honda's heels, not decades behind.

Not technologically, necessarily, although they are building simpler
cars.

But in the consumer mindset, they certainly are.

 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-992E64.21250630052005@nntp3.usenetserver.com...
> In article <qONme.2524$Ag1.770@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>,
> "Henry Kolesnik" <kolesnik@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > To me depreciation or aging faster means you get less for it when you
sell
> > or trade. In time Hyundai will catch up and Honda and Toyota will feel
the
> > pinch.
>
> Hyundai is now where Honda and Toyota were in the mid to late 70s.
>
> Honda and Toyota better not get an attitude. Pride goeth before a fall.
>

In Canada, The 2005 Kia Spectrum was voted economy car of the year. The
economy class, is the most hotly contest segment for the canucks (who have
to put up with 15% sales tax and higher gas prices). The fact the Spectrum
was able to take top honors is a huge success for the under dog company.

Kia is a off-shoot from Hyundai and share mechanics (like the engine and
chassis). The 2006 Elentra will probably be an improvement over the 2005
Spectrum...and should be a car to be recon with.

Hyundai is on Toyota&Honda's heels, not decades behind.

Pars

 

In article <I9Vme.1715$_Q2.1671@fe11.lga>,
Sparky Spartacus <Sparky@universalexports.org> wrote:

> Also, my '03 Accord EX sedan had a power drivers seat, so I assume the
> '05 does as well.

It was as late as 02 that "power driver's seat" in the Honda brand meant
a little switch that controlled the height. Back and forth was still
manual, and there was no separately controlling the front and rear
height.

And as late as 02, Honda had the balls to market that as a "driver's
power seat".

There are plenty of little annoying things with Honda and its cars.

I can say this, because I'm a Honda guy from way back.

 

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <PBOme.17615$cP2.17440@fe06.lga>, "stevie" <sf@dum.org>
> wrote:
>
>>I don't think the Honda steering wheel controls are lighted. This might
>>have a bearing on you decision. To me, it doesn''t make sense to not have
>>lighted controls.
>>
>>May not be true in 05 models.
>
> And it may be that LX doesn't have lighted controls, but EX does. Honda
> does silly things like that.

IIRC the EX controls are lighted in '05.

Also, my '03 Accord EX sedan had a power drivers seat, so I assume the
'05 does as well.

FWIW, I've always been happy with the unlighted steering wheel controls
- I use them by feel, not sight.

 

Kevin McMurtrie wrote:

> Saying that Mitsubishi and Hyundai "depreciate faster" is a nice way of
> saying that they age rapidly. They wouldn't be fun to own for long.

my mom had a 93 eagle summit- a rebadged mitsu mirage, but with a 1.8l
16 valve engine. the engine was nice in such a light car, but the fit,
finish, trim, etc sucked. pieces fell off, the motorized mousebelt
jammed, various switchgear broke, like the O/D switch, headlight switch
etc. it was a cheap car, and felt like one.

 

In article <qONme.2524$Ag1.770@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>,
"Henry Kolesnik" <kolesnik@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> To me depreciation or aging faster means you get less for it when you sell
> or trade. In time Hyundai will catch up and Honda and Toyota will feel the
> pinch.

Hyundai is now where Honda and Toyota were in the mid to late 70s.

Honda and Toyota better not get an attitude. Pride goeth before a fall.

 

In article <PBOme.17615$cP2.17440@fe06.lga>, "stevie" <sf@dum.org>
wrote:

> I don't think the Honda steering wheel controls are lighted. This might
> have a bearing on you decision. To me, it doesn''t make sense to not have
> lighted controls.
>
> May not be true in 05 models.

And it may be that LX doesn't have lighted controls, but EX does. Honda
does silly things like that.

Has Honda gotten around to lighting the window switches? For a long,
long time, they saved a penny or two by not doing that. Stupid.

 

oops-I may be wrong about steering wheels controls.
"Henry Kolesnik" <kolesnik@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:6npme.55$RV5.7@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
On Saturday my wife and I both drove the 4 cylinder automatics and really
like both the Honda and Toyota. I couldn't find any significant difference
but my wife liked the looks of one better than the other and she can't
recall which one because we also drove the Mitsubishi Galant, Hyundai
Sonota, Toyota Matrix, and a PT Cruiser. The PT & Matrix is off our list
and it's between Honda and Toyota because the other 2 Asian cars depreciate
faster. Apart from emotions with prices, performace and features
essentially the same what are factual reasons for selecting one over the
other.
tnx
Hank

 

I don't think the Honda steering wheel controls are lighted. This might
have a bearing on you decision. To me, it doesn''t make sense to not have
lighted controls.

May not be true in 05 models.
"Henry Kolesnik" <kolesnik@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:6npme.55$RV5.7@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
On Saturday my wife and I both drove the 4 cylinder automatics and really
like both the Honda and Toyota. I couldn't find any significant difference
but my wife liked the looks of one better than the other and she can't
recall which one because we also drove the Mitsubishi Galant, Hyundai
Sonota, Toyota Matrix, and a PT Cruiser. The PT & Matrix is off our list
and it's between Honda and Toyota because the other 2 Asian cars depreciate
faster. Apart from emotions with prices, performace and features
essentially the same what are factual reasons for selecting one over the
other.
tnx
Hank

 

We'll were leaning toward the Camry because it's a little less costly and
has a drivers side power seat along with steerin wheel controls for the
radio. I also think it's quieter on the highway.
To me depreciation or aging faster means you get less for it when you sell
or trade. In time Hyundai will catch up and Honda and Toyota will feel the
pinch.


--

73
Hank WD5JFR
"Kevin McMurtrie" <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:mcmurtri-D21A75.16390330052005@corp-radius.supernews.com...
> In article <6npme.55$RV5.7@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>,
> "Henry Kolesnik" <kolesnik@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday my wife and I both drove the 4 cylinder automatics and really
>> like both the Honda and Toyota. I couldn't find any significant
>> difference
>> but my wife liked the looks of one better than the other and she can't
>> recall which one because we also drove the Mitsubishi Galant, Hyundai
>> Sonota, Toyota Matrix, and a PT Cruiser. The PT & Matrix is off our list
>> and it's between Honda and Toyota because the other 2 Asian cars
>> depreciate
>> faster. Apart from emotions with prices, performace and features
>> essentially the same what are factual reasons for selecting one over the
>> other.
>> tnx
>> Hank
>
> Saying that Mitsubishi and Hyundai "depreciate faster" is a nice way of
> saying that they age rapidly. They wouldn't be fun to own for long.
>
> The Accord and Camry are both good cars. Generally Honda has stiff
> suspensions while Toyota has very soft suspensions. Not much else is
> different in the standard trim models.

 

In article <6npme.55$RV5.7@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>,
"Henry Kolesnik" <kolesnik@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> On Saturday my wife and I both drove the 4 cylinder automatics and really
> like both the Honda and Toyota. I couldn't find any significant difference
> but my wife liked the looks of one better than the other and she can't
> recall which one because we also drove the Mitsubishi Galant, Hyundai
> Sonota, Toyota Matrix, and a PT Cruiser. The PT & Matrix is off our list
> and it's between Honda and Toyota because the other 2 Asian cars depreciate
> faster. Apart from emotions with prices, performace and features
> essentially the same what are factual reasons for selecting one over the
> other.
> tnx
> Hank

Saying that Mitsubishi and Hyundai "depreciate faster" is a nice way of
saying that they age rapidly. They wouldn't be fun to own for long.

The Accord and Camry are both good cars. Generally Honda has stiff
suspensions while Toyota has very soft suspensions. Not much else is
different in the standard trim models.

 

In article <6npme.55$RV5.7@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>,
"Henry Kolesnik" <kolesnik@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> On Saturday my wife and I both drove the 4 cylinder automatics and really
> like both the Honda and Toyota. I couldn't find any significant difference
> but my wife liked the looks of one better than the other and she can't
> recall which one because we also drove the Mitsubishi Galant, Hyundai
> Sonota, Toyota Matrix, and a PT Cruiser. The PT & Matrix is off our list
> and it's between Honda and Toyota because the other 2 Asian cars depreciate
> faster. Apart from emotions with prices, performace and features
> essentially the same what are factual reasons for selecting one over the
> other.

Quite honestly, I think it comes down to which dealership do you like
the best.

We have nothing but scummy Toyota/Lexus dealers here in town; on the
other hand, my Honda dealer is golden. Hence, I buy Hondas.

That being said, a Lexus dropped into my lap awhile back; I've been
driving it ever since, and let the local garage do all the work. But if
it were my decision, and I was paying the big $$$, I'd buy a Honda.

But that's in this area. If I move, I'll look carefully at the Honda
and Toyota dealers in that area and decide then. I won't automatically
go Honda.

 

On Saturday my wife and I both drove the 4 cylinder automatics and really
like both the Honda and Toyota. I couldn't find any significant difference
but my wife liked the looks of one better than the other and she can't
recall which one because we also drove the Mitsubishi Galant, Hyundai
Sonota, Toyota Matrix, and a PT Cruiser. The PT & Matrix is off our list
and it's between Honda and Toyota because the other 2 Asian cars depreciate
faster. Apart from emotions with prices, performace and features
essentially the same what are factual reasons for selecting one over the
other.
tnx
Hank

 

Tush Smells Bush Kills!!!!!!!!!!! wrote:

> GM controls majority stake in Daewoo and parts of Suzuki.... why
> wouldn't it be GM/Chevy?
>
I know GM controls both. I only implied that the Aveo has Suzuki or Daewoo
running parts, rather than domestic GM parts.


> You sound like those retarded Saturn owners who used to claim it wasn't
> GM, even though it was owned, funded and run by GM.
>
Not me. I always knew that Saturn was all GM, even though their minivan has
a Honda engine. :-)


> Regardless, Aveo is not KIA.

Correct. However, all Korean car brands, including Hyundai, lag behind
Honda and Toyota in fuel economy. And I believe that is what the other
poster was talking about as it pertained to the Aveo.