<mike_pk@hotmail.com> wrote
> Elle wrote:
> > Check also for whether the distributor cap and rotor, spark plug WIRES,
and
> > distributor's ignitor were replaced recently.
>
> I'll check my records for those too.
>
> > Were the alternator and distributor coil put in 1.5 years ago both OEM?
>
> Yep, done at the dealer, OEM parts.
>
> > You might be able to rig up a plug wire so that you can just barely see
it
> > when you're sitting in the driver's seat, so you can check for spark by
> > yourself.
>
> I thought about this, but with my battery so low, I think I need to fix
> that problem first.
>
> > Dunno what a battery charger costs, but if it's under $20, I think it
might
> > be worthwhile to have and may save you having to go to a shop for this
> > particular no-start problem.
>
> Looks like it's about $30 at autozone. I haven't decided if I'm going
> to buy one or not yet. I guess they take 2-12 hours to recharge a low
> battery since they trickle charge them (I guess they're designed mainly
> for RV's and other limited use vehicles that sit idle for extend
> periods of time). I'm trying to think if I'll ever need this thing in
> the future.

Probably not. I used a motorcycle battery charger once to raise my ailing
car battery's energy to just enough to get me to the battery store. But now
I keep such close tabs on the battery's condition that I don't think I'll
ever need this again.

I would instead consider the following for $30 at Target:

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...73754?%5Fencod
ing=UTF8&frombrowse=1&asin=B0002INUMK

It's a 12-volt portable jump starter. It's much easier than asking one's
girl/boyfriend to come over with their car to give you a jump.

I used one of these before, on loan from someone. Works great.

I would think Pep Boys and Autozone have these, too.

 

Elle wrote:
> Check also for whether the distributor cap and rotor, spark plug WIRES, and
> distributor's ignitor were replaced recently.

I'll check my records for those too.

> Were the alternator and distributor coil put in 1.5 years ago both OEM?

Yep, done at the dealer, OEM parts.

> You might be able to rig up a plug wire so that you can just barely see it
> when you're sitting in the driver's seat, so you can check for spark by
> yourself.

I thought about this, but with my battery so low, I think I need to fix
that problem first.

> Dunno what a battery charger costs, but if it's under $20, I think it might
> be worthwhile to have and may save you having to go to a shop for this
> particular no-start problem.

Looks like it's about $30 at autozone. I haven't decided if I'm going
to buy one or not yet. I guess they take 2-12 hours to recharge a low
battery since they trickle charge them (I guess they're designed mainly
for RV's and other limited use vehicles that sit idle for extend
periods of time). I'm trying to think if I'll ever need this thing in
the future.

Thanks,
-Mike

 

I'll check it out, there's a target right near my house, thanks for the
advice. Probably more useful than having a charger sitting around.

I checked my records (I seem to be missing some, ah well), plugs
replaced at at least 85K miles (45K miles ago). I had the distributor
cap and rotor replaced as part of a routine maintenance at 113K miles
(17K miles ago).

I'll take that trip to target.

There's no mention on the work order about plug wires.

 

Next time you check for spark, remove ALL plugs, and the PGM-FI fuse
from the box under the hood. See if the plugs are wet with fuel. Crank
(with pedal to the floor) and watch for spark and/or fuel mist shooting
out of the spark hole indicating still flooded. Cranking like this to
spit out the fuel soup might help.

Also, have you checked your air filter and intake tube for possible
blocking/critters? What happens if you crank it with air box open or
better yet, air tube disconnected at throttle body? Just temprarily.

 

At a minimum, you should check the plug wires' resistance. Ballpark, each
one should be under 15k ohms.

A new OEM set will run you about $50 + maybe $10 for shipping from
www.slhonda.com .

Seven years is a good long life for a set of ignition wires, so yours may
very well be due, and this is not money thrown away. (OTOH I am seeing posts
here about ignition wires lasting much longer than those made a decade
ago... )

On the third hand, some fellow with a 1994 Honda was posting here recently
and scratching his head over a sputtering, jerky acceleration ride. He
ultimately slapped in new wires and that fixed it.

I know you have a no-start, but maybe the battery is just too weak right
now(like you were implying) to come to anymore conclusions.


<mike_pk@hotmail.com> wrote
> I'll check it out, there's a target right near my house, thanks for the
> advice. Probably more useful than having a charger sitting around.
>
> I checked my records (I seem to be missing some, ah well), plugs
> replaced at at least 85K miles (45K miles ago). I had the distributor
> cap and rotor replaced as part of a routine maintenance at 113K miles
> (17K miles ago).
>
> I'll take that trip to target.
>
> There's no mention on the work order about plug wires.
>

 

So I got the jump starter from target (had to get the next model up,
400Amp, they were out of the smaller one). Hooking it up, the cranking
is back to normal speed but still no fire. I had one quick sputter
while testing and that's it. I held down the throttle for a minute, as
suggested by Tegger, but it still wouldn't fire. It's raining pretty
bad now and I don't know if I want to be setting up plug wires to check
for spark in the rain. :) Hopefully it will clear up later. I
definitely smell gas though while trying to start it.

Somthing odd I noticed,
I noticed that with the key in the on position, some kind of "servo
sound" was running intermittely in the dash (like behind the vents and
what-not), the heating/cooling system is off so I thought that was
strange. I took the fuse for the AC system out and the servo sound
stopped. I doubt it's related, but trying to start with the fuse out
didn't work either.

 

mike_pk@hotmail.com wrote in
news:1129317036.895516.191880@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:

> So I got the jump starter from target (had to get the next model up,
> 400Amp, they were out of the smaller one). Hooking it up, the cranking
> is back to normal speed but still no fire. I had one quick sputter
> while testing and that's it. I held down the throttle for a minute, as
> suggested by Tegger, but it still wouldn't fire. It's raining pretty
> bad now and I don't know if I want to be setting up plug wires to check
> for spark in the rain. :) Hopefully it will clear up later. I
> definitely smell gas though while trying to start it.



How old are your plug wires?

Sounds an awful lot like (now that I know you've got heavy rain) the HT
current is leaking off to ground before the plugs.

Go get a can of WD-40. Wipe off the plug wires and distributor cap with a
dry cloth or paper towel, then spray the WD-40 liberally over the wires and
the cap.

Does it start now? Try with your foot off the pedal first, then with the
pedal to the floor if it won't fire up.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

So miraculously I tried starting the car today with the jump-starter
and bang it fired right up, no playing with the throttle or anything. I
was going to test for spark, now that our new england monsoon has ended
(7 days of straight rain) but since it fired up, obviously it's getting
spark.

Now however I have a new problem. I was going to let it run for a while
to charge the battery but the idle suddenly went "wacky". The car
sounds like it's reving the engine, idling between 1k and 2k RPM again
and again in a pulsing fashion (reeer... reeer.... reeer...). The
exhaust looks a little smoky (white smoke) but not too bad. What could
be causing this strange idling behavior? Did I bork the main relay
somehow by reflowing the solder? Is there any way it could cause this
kind of behavior. My understanding is that once the relays click open
(and the car starts) it's out of the picture.

I tried starting the car a few times and it fired right up each time,
but still idled in the same pulsing fashion. I held the throttle open
for a while and it seemed like it responded ok, but as soon as I let go
the car resumed it's pulsing idle.

I checked the computer, still no error codes or pending codes.

Again all help is really appreciated!

-Mike

 

<mike_pk@hotmail.com> wrote
> So miraculously I tried starting the car today with the jump-starter
> and bang it fired right up, no playing with the throttle or anything. I
> was going to test for spark, now that our new england monsoon has ended
> (7 days of straight rain) but since it fired up, obviously it's getting
> spark.

Like Tegger was suggesting, it's getting spark when it's dry, so the
ignition wires are suspect. Replace them, and report back. :-)

Also, with the engine completely cool, top off the coolant level in the
radiator. Then warm the engine up and fill the reservoir to its maximum
line. Do an air purge on the cooling system if there's any question that air
may be in the system. Air in the system or an underfilled system will not
properly cool certain engine RPM yada control components, resulting in
erratic idling.

I would not suspect the main relay at all at this point.

> Now however I have a new problem. I was going to let it run for a while
> to charge the battery but the idle suddenly went "wacky". The car
> sounds like it's reving the engine, idling between 1k and 2k RPM again
> and again in a pulsing fashion (reeer... reeer.... reeer...). The
> exhaust looks a little smoky (white smoke) but not too bad. What could
> be causing this strange idling behavior? Did I bork the main relay
> somehow by reflowing the solder? Is there any way it could cause this
> kind of behavior. My understanding is that once the relays click open
> (and the car starts) it's out of the picture.
>
> I tried starting the car a few times and it fired right up each time,
> but still idled in the same pulsing fashion. I held the throttle open
> for a while and it seemed like it responded ok, but as soon as I let go
> the car resumed it's pulsing idle.
>
> I checked the computer, still no error codes or pending codes.
>
> Again all help is really appreciated!
>
> -Mike
>

 

I wouldn't necessarily call it "erratic" idling. It's more like a
regular pulsing (at a fixed frequency) between 1 and 2k RPM. I'll
fill/check the coolant levels.

I did some reading and a "pulsing" idle can be apparently caused by a
leak in the vacuum lines. More interestingly I read that the AC/heating
valves are sometimes run off these lines (vacuum motors?), and I'm
wondering if the erratic "servo sounds" (opening and closing) I was
hearing behing the dash are another symptom of this.

Thanks for the advice!
-Mike

 

mike_pk@hotmail.com wrote in
news:1129474829.587107.139110@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:

> So miraculously I tried starting the car today with the jump-starter
> and bang it fired right up, no playing with the throttle or anything. I
> was going to test for spark, now that our new england monsoon has ended
> (7 days of straight rain) but since it fired up, obviously it's getting
> spark.



Or the wires have dried off enough to allow starting.


>
> Now however I have a new problem. I was going to let it run for a while
> to charge the battery but the idle suddenly went "wacky". The car
> sounds like it's reving the engine, idling between 1k and 2k RPM again
> and again in a pulsing fashion (reeer... reeer.... reeer...).



Massive air leak!! Check ALL hoses!





--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

Well I finally broke down and took it to a mechanic. After I got it to
start, and it would move, I decided to try and get it somewhere before
I had to have it towed. The mechanic said the "Idle Air Control", IAC,
valve wasn't working properly which was causing the surging/pulsing
idle. I read up on it, and it sounds like it could have been the cause
of my no start as well. This has been quite a learning experiece and I
appreciate all the help from the people who've posted here! Thanks!
They replaced the IAC and according to the mechanic (I haven't picked
it up yet) "it's running great", the total is about $300, which
considering I had them fix a leaking tire as well I guess isn't too
bad.

The only thing I wonder is why this didn't set any error codes in the
computer, since I've read in other places that a stuck or
malfunctioning IAC can set codes (and/or light the MIL).

Hopefully this little saga is over, thanks to all,
-Mike

 

Did you ever purge the cooling system of air?

I had idle problems last year not unlike yours, took apart the IAC valve,
and in the process found the cooling chamber was full of air.

Purged the system. Car ran like a charm.

<mike_pk@hotmail.com> wrote
> Well I finally broke down and took it to a mechanic. After I got it to
> start, and it would move, I decided to try and get it somewhere before
> I had to have it towed. The mechanic said the "Idle Air Control", IAC,
> valve wasn't working properly which was causing the surging/pulsing
> idle. I read up on it, and it sounds like it could have been the cause
> of my no start as well. This has been quite a learning experiece and I
> appreciate all the help from the people who've posted here! Thanks!
> They replaced the IAC and according to the mechanic (I haven't picked
> it up yet) "it's running great", the total is about $300, which
> considering I had them fix a leaking tire as well I guess isn't too
> bad.
>
> The only thing I wonder is why this didn't set any error codes in the
> computer, since I've read in other places that a stuck or
> malfunctioning IAC can set codes (and/or light the MIL).
>
> Hopefully this little saga is over, thanks to all,
> -Mike
>

 

mike_pk@hotmail.com wrote in
news:1129577754.311454.203220@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:

> Well I finally broke down and took it to a mechanic. After I got it to
> start, and it would move, I decided to try and get it somewhere before
> I had to have it towed. The mechanic said the "Idle Air Control", IAC,
> valve wasn't working properly which was causing the surging/pulsing
> idle.



Then it was stuck WIDE open, or the gaskets were leaking severely. You've
had an unusual occurrence.



> I read up on it, and it sounds like it could have been the cause
> of my no start as well. This has been quite a learning experiece and I
> appreciate all the help from the people who've posted here! Thanks!
> They replaced the IAC and according to the mechanic (I haven't picked
> it up yet) "it's running great", the total is about $300, which
> considering I had them fix a leaking tire as well I guess isn't too
> bad.
>
> The only thing I wonder is why this didn't set any error codes in the
> computer, since I've read in other places that a stuck or
> malfunctioning IAC can set codes (and/or light the MIL).


The IAC valve will set an error only if it stops responding. If the gaskets
were leaking or the plunger was stuck and not moving in response to the
motors' commands, a code will not be set.

A stuck IAC points to either a defective assembly, or severe contamination
of the throttle body. Be nice to know some details of what he found.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

TeGGeR® wrote:
>
> The IAC valve will set an error only if it stops responding. If the gaskets
> were leaking or the plunger was stuck and not moving in response to the
> motors' commands, a code will not be set.
>

Well that makes sense, thanks!

> A stuck IAC points to either a defective assembly, or severe contamination
> of the throttle body. Be nice to know some details of what he found.

His exact words were, the IAC was "completely flat" and not pulsing
properly. I'm too much of a newbie in this car stuff to have asked the
right questions I guess. :)

Do you think I should be concerned about the IAC being stuck? The car
has almost 150k miles, this isn't something that usually wears out? You
think this could be an indicator of something more serious?

Thanks!
-Mike

 

mike_pk@hotmail.com wrote in
news:1129639864.233532.182350@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:


<snip>


>
> Do you think I should be concerned about the IAC being stuck? The car
> has almost 150k miles, this isn't something that usually wears out?
> You think this could be an indicator of something more serious?



The IAC is NOT something that normally "wears out".

It is generally either 1) mechanically/electrically defective, or 2) gets
clogged with sludge.

If the former, well, you've just won the reverse lottery. It's highly
unlikely you'll ever see this problem again.

If the latter, you've got much more serious problems than a plugged IAC.

You need to make sure your mechanic confirms the cleanliness of the
throttle body, and the cleanliness of the PCV system. This is so basic and
critical that it's beyond question.

Failure to change the engine oil in accordance with YOUR PERSONAL driving
habits is what causes sludge. Forget the "normal" and "severe" service
schedules in the Owner's Manual: *EVERYBODY* meets the "severe"
requirements, no matter what the automaker marketing departments want you
to believe.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

Hmm I'm fairly religious on changing the oil in my car. I've
occasioanlly gone 4k miles, but rarely (the car's at 140k miles and
almost all of them long highway drives commuting, it's had quite a few
oil changes). I'll have a mechanic check the throttle body and PVC
system. The car seems to be running great now, but what would be
symptoms of those being dirty?

I had an ignition switch/ignition coil issue about a two years ago that
caused a long chain of cascade failures.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...8dfaa26be02bf0

The exact chain of events is a little murky but it was something like
something in the starter system died that fried, my alternator, that
caused my battery to discharge after the dealer replaced the alternator
and battery the engine misfired and stalled quite a bit clogging the
EGR ports and screwing up the catalytic converter. The dealership that
did the repairs (suspisciously) did a bunch of work for free because
they initially just replaced the alternator and battery and told me I
was all set.

Could all of that been a precursor to this issue?

Thanks for the advice, tegger!

-Mike