2010 Crosstour... DEAD!!!
 

I was on my way to O'hare International Airport when suddenly my 2010 4WD EXL Crosstour with only 19K miles suddenly stalls and dies in the middle of the street...
car won't start, engine won't turn and is literally dead. Good thing I was still on local street... no one behind me and have not jumped on I90 yet.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5239246_n.jpg

3 hours later, I got a call from Honda service... battery good but car still dead.
Now here's the kicker... the ECU did not throw any code whatsoever so they don't have a clue of what going on.


and my courtesy car... 2011 CRV #23 awd leather with 90 miles on it... LOL and I thought I was done with CRVs...

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6002807_n.jpg

Damn - sorry to hear. That's a nice car, and hope they treat you right at the dealer.

wow man...thats messed. i know how you feel. my fit died on me back in august. hope all goes well.

oh, and at least you have a honda for a loner car.....i got stuck with a jetta....

is this the dreaded "lost motion spring"???

Is this the J35Z engine? which cylinder head?

Any chance you know if they gave it the Ridgeline (Z5), Pilot (Z1,Z4), TSX (Z6) or Accord (Z2,Z3) heads?

I'm pretty positive it's a J35Z but not sure which head are in it. They do have the same engine as the sedan... 271hp 3.5 v6

Looking into this...

When you went to crank the motor over after it died did it make any noise? Could you hear the starter or any relays click? Or the fuel pump priming?

not even a squeak or a click... it's almost look like a dead battery but will that was not the case said the Honda tech. It was neither electrical they say...

Did all of your lights and dash function with the key on? Or literally everything died at the same time?

That sounds suspiciously like a bad ECU ground even though they are saying it is not electrical.. or a dead fuel pump or a failed relay somewhere.

instrument lights acted like everything was normal when in on, off and when trying to start

Hmm... that would still put me at the stage of diagnostics where I would be checking relays/fusible links and grounds.

If you dropped one of the lost motion springs the starter, fuel pump, etc. would all still try to crank the motor.

So you'd hear all the clicking and whirring.

With a bad ECU ground, depending on which ground lead, you could have all the symptoms you are describing. Or absolutely nothing would work.

With a dead fuel pump, you would've heard the starter pop the gear in place and click against the Ring gear on the T/C.

But with a blown alternator fuse, or starter fuse you would get no click. The blown alternator fuse would simply run down the battery till accessories stopped working, lights dimmed than the car would die.

With the starter fuse/relay or the Fuel pump fuse/relay gone you would have all your electronics working but no clicking or whirring..

Bad grounds can have any number of goofy effects depending on what lost contact or corroded.

For the car to just die and not even attempt to turn over or prime, but all the electronics function as normal.. there are no direct mechanical issues that would do it, but fail-safes or limp/safe modes resulting from a detected sensor or mechanical failure would do that.

A disconnected MAF, MAP, TPS or O2 sensor can cause this as well through they would throw DTCs... maybe not though... weirder things have happened.


When do you get to hear about your car? I am really curious to see what they find.

I'll update as soon as I get more word from the dealer. What's bugging me tho is that the ECU did not throw any code.

Dealer harness hack job?
 

Does it have the KARR imobilizer hack job harness installed?

If so, I only ask because many of those dealer add-ons add a ton of spaghetti to your harness and create a lot of failure points under the dash. For example, they splice right into the main ignition power supply and use crimp connectors to bypass it. That spaghetti is still there even if you don't buy the brain when buying the car.

good luck and let us know :)

no, there is no dealer add on

I knew it... I knew it... I knew it!!! omg i'm freaking out!!!
 

I was on my way to the dealer around 4pm as I left some keys in the crosstour. As I was on my way, phone rings and it was the dealer head mechanic... they still can't get the engine to turn... crank wont turn and said it's mechanical and internal and is at the bottom part of the engine he added. I then told him about the conversation we had about the LMSpring recall on the Fits and how symptom turned out to be exactly as the recall notice described. He still did not tell me that it was that but I'm 90% sure it is. When I arrived at the dealer, I showed him the FIT recall thread and the picture I posted of the Lost Motion Spring https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-...tml#post964464. He kept his silence and went on to entertain my point (as any responsible and informed mechanic should) and proceeded to look into picture as I pointed on the spring. Still without agreeing or confirming what specifically the problem was... he told me to don't worry as the needed part should be here Wednesday and all should be fine.

Got no qualms with the tech and would actually commend him on how he handled himself, the situation and my already freaked out self.

So... what are your thoughts?


this is what I showed to the tech:

Did you purchase your Honda's from Schaumburg Honda? I've been there twice and couldn't stand it for one bit. I'd say for any future problems, which there hopefully aren't any, take it up to MotorWerks in Barrington. Not the biggest Honda dealership, but their service guys know their shit. Thats where I bought mine at and thats where I take it for any service.

Professionally handled and dealt with. I think you're revealing the true value of this site and our love of the Honda Fit. You went in well prepared. One or three steps ahead of dealer/service dept.

As the tech said, not to worry.

kudos to you!!

are you on any crosstour forums?

i was checking one out. this one looks like the most active...
Honda Crosstour Forums

you could probably create quite a stir over there.

I forgot about that forum LOL I'm in on that but it was so quiet back then and I went back to driveaccord.

I'll post...

UPDATE: it's not LMS
 

Just got a call from service... CT is done and ready for pickup. Here's what happened, they said one of the valves broke. They replaced valves, the shortblock... basically the bottom port of the engine and change the belt/s too. I will get more detailed report when I pick it up.

Oh well... if it breaks... it breaks and this car isn't even driven hard. Only alot of short distance drives as it is used for home health care only this winter. Which of course do alot of stress on the engine... but nothing like this had happened on my 99 accord, 08 crv and the FIT.

I'm wondering why it wouldn't even crank when it was a valve. That doesn't make any sense.

Well according to this post he didn't actually have a valve train related issue


The mechanic was intimating that TEO's issues in the Crosstour are with the bottom end or rotating assembly... but to answer your question..

A valve issue, in the case of the affected Fits.. the spring can cause the rocker, the cam and the valve to jam in place keeping the starter from cranking the engine.

Which is why the one Fit that did turn up with a broken (as opposed to just bent) Lost Motion Spring that failed during operation on the rocker assembly completely ate that #3 cylinder section of the camshaft because the valvetrain siezed which cost him all 16 valves, camshaft and 4 pistons, so ultimately a whole new longblock was swapped in.

That is how a mere valve can throw a figurative wrench into the works and keep the engine from starting.

This is frustrating for the 2nd time I'll give them another chance to make this thing run right. I still am feeling vibrations when it's about to change gear and and in gear 1st to 3rd is where it's most felt and from a standing stop. With this vibration is a groaning sound. One selling point is how quiet the crosstour is and now it's getting to be real frustrating. There was an improvement from the first time the returned the car but that's about it, an improvement. I need this thing fixed and run as it should.

What should i do? Who should I call? I'm ready to pop a fuse which I'm trying not to.

Call Honda USA, if it was a bottom end engine issue, and it is still not resolved after it sounds like you need basically a new short block. And you can bet they (the dealer) doesn't want to have to eat a 6-8k engine.

But they should. It is a brand new car. I would also demand they tell me exactly what the issue was.

Hey EvilOne,
Im sure there are plenty of us who feel your pain. It sucks to have car problems, especially motor related ones.

I had a similar instance to yours in my 1996 V6 Audi several years ago. I was driving down a road at a normal pace (not WOT or anything like that) and suddenly the engine cut and the CEL came on. I tried starting her and no luck, no crank noise. The electrics all worked, just a big exclamation on the OBC.

It had to get towed to the dealership. After a couple days I got the car back and was told the timing belt snapped causing the valves to run into the piston heads. Luckily for me only two valves were damaged and not any pistons. The mechanics found and replaced the two damaged valves and gave me a new timing belt.

The car ran fine afterwards. I was just pissed off that this happened right after the 100,000 km (60,000) mile service warranty expired. Needless to say that was the last time I took it to the Audi garage.

The techs should have found a broken belt on your car though. Are the valves even operated by belt or are they driven by chain. My car only had 12 valves and didn't have any fancy variable valve timing systems either, making it easier to diagnose and solve.

Unfortunately with OBD systems, electric faults are often well diagnosed but anything mechanical goes unseen until something major happens.

If worse comes to worse look at a section of your owner's manual for your state's lemon laws and contact Honda as Diamond suggests. Be very polite and explain everything extremely clearly to them and they will make things happen. Even if you have to take your car to another Honda dealership.

Good luck
and may the force be with you.

I still say take it up to MotorWerks in Barrington. They are great up there. Call ahead and let them know the situation. Let me know if you want to and I'll see if my buddy up there can do anything for you.

^^ thanks Cowboy_Fit, maybe if you could give him the link to this thread it would be great.

anyway, here's what's done... still having the same grinding, vibrating and groaning sound :/

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5250320_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6059897_n.jpg

:(

Uh.. they made you re-use the front cylinder head?

That's kind f*cked up.

They should've given you a new long block redressed with you original accessories from the get go in a car this new.

I feel they were going to bother to re-use parts why didn't they just re-bore it .20" or .40" over, put some new slugs and bearings in and call it a day?

you guys just can't imagine how my headache is for this particular problem... it's just so frustrating. I'm so ready to just ship the car and drop it off in front of Honda corporate office/building.