Greetings and salutations to all attending these proceedings. This post is a grand jury proceeding to determine if certain moderators on Fitfreak are rendering Fair and Impartial service to members of Fitfreak in violation of good business practice regulation #12345 as quoted in the FitFreak members manual.

This problem was less severe when there was only one vendor competing for the supercharger business on FF. However since vendor Doug Thorley has PAID IT'S MONEY and joined FF TO SELL THEIR PRODUCT the conflict of interest of one moderator in particular has raised it's ugly head.

Moderator JDMChris.com has openly been an advocate for one vendor, KW supercharger kits and since the introduction of products from the newcomer Doug Thorley has actively and throughly disparaged their product and endorsed the product from KW and his endorsement of the KW product has been supported by Moderator TOOL who also openly questioned the veracity of the Doug Thorley company which has been doing business in the high performance community for about 50 years much longer than the competing company.

The practice of FF moderators openly endorsing and advocating the use of one vendor product over the product of another vendor must cease and desist immediately.

This practice of moderator endorsement creates a vicarious endorsement of one product over another by the entire FF organization not just their moderators and this is hardly fair and impartial treatment of all vendors.

There are a couple of remedies that are available to the administration of FF.

1. Moderator JDMChris.com be reverted to regular member status and be instructed to apply to be vendor under KW superchargers auspices. If no longer a moderator JDMChris.com would be allowed to post his OPINIONS on FF subjects as with any other member.

2. Moderator JDMChris.com remains a moderator BUT must recuse himself from posting in either of the competing vendors posts, and all his posts after 03-15-08 in both the KW supercharger thread AND the Doug Thorley thread be deleted and no new posts by him be allowed to endorse and advocate one product over another.

a. The post by moderator TOOL questioning the veracity of the Doug Thorley company be removed or moderator tool be reverted to regular member status and free to make any comments he would like to post subject to the same regulations as any other member.


All vendors and merchants that have PAID THEIR MONEY should be entitled to fair and unbiased treatment from all members of FF administration including moderators, moderator should NEVER endorse,or advocate one vendors product over another's it in the good business practices manual and this ACTIVE AND VIGOROUS ENDORSEMENT of one company over another by FF moderators must stop NOW.

Respectfully Submitted under the authority of FITFREAK ENFORCEMENT COMMITTEE.

All Ye attending what say ye?

Incitement Yes/No................................................ ......... No true bill Yes/No

 

Just because we are mods doesnt mean we cant voice our opinion on what we thing about a product that we may in the future buy. Yeah im skeptical about a vendor who just joined, posted up a product listed a 3000$, with out much back ground or a website or much info at all on the details. Im skeptical and intrested becasue im going to drop the money on a SC soon, and want to make the best decision.
We are not robots, and have the right to voice our opinion on things just like you members.

Not a thing wrong about what i said.^ Thats a direct quote. I even give him a suggestion on how to succeed.

EDIT-I do agree that a mod should not be on one vendors side and "Compete" against other vendors. That should come to a stop. But including me in this thread is ridiculous.

Tyler

 

Not if you are a member of the administration team as moderators are. If you want to openly advocate or endorse one product over another or post remarks negative to a vendor than REVERT TO REGULAR MEMBER STATUS and post away all you want but as long as you are part of the administration "Team" you can not ETHICALLY favor one side over the other.

Gee just because YOU never heard of Doug Thorley doesn't mean they are a bad company and WOW a true internet KID just because a company doesn't have a website make it a bad company. If you had been around a little longer than a year in the high performance field you would have know about Doug Thorley and understood that they DON'T NEED A WEBSITE their reputation in Real World High Performance circles precedes them and "people that know what they are doing" (like record holding racing teams and top engine builders) do not need to look them up on the net like so many NOOBIES. They know from their past winning performance that they look no further than Doug Thorley for the quality products they are looking to buy.

But that begs the question you really really in your heart of hearts think it's a good idea for a moderator to openly endorse one vendor over another???

 

my problem here is that, yes, they have PAID to be able to sell their products on fitfreak. that means they are already in the same standing as other vendors, whether or not any member or mod endorses them personally.

mods are people too, and unless this has something to do with why you aren't a mod anymore, claymore, this just looks like attacks on people you have had drama with on other threads.

 

This has nothing to do with me or my status it has to do with the FAIR administration of this site and the treatment given to ALL vendors equally by members of the administration staff of FitFreak. It is NOT GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE for any member of that staff to disparage or endorse any product over another. If they want to continue advocating their favorite product they are free to do so AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT MODERATORS. It's a basic premise of moderating to be FAIR AND IMPARTIAL and that premise is being violated in this case.

How would you like being a vendor that had to PAY MONEY to put their produce on this site and the very first day a member of this administration, that just took your money, then turned around and said your product was no good. How about if you posted on EBAY and up popped a little box from the administration of EBAY saying DO NOT BY THIS PRODUCT IT IS OUTDATED and no good, would you like that much??? I highly doubt it and this is the same thing. I'm not saying they are not entitled to their own opinion as a regular member just like feedback from buyers on EBAY is allowed and understood, BUT not from the administrator of EBAY, This is the same thing.

 

Read my post again buddy. I said, i dont agree with one member giving the "Competition" bad rep so the vendor they like better gets more sales. I see what your coming from with that. But what i said in my post is 100% fine and ok. I dont mention KW, i just voice my opinion of what i think about there product and GB.

Tyler

 

And your talking and making recommendations based on your very limited experience in the High Performance Automotive world. Give it up TOOL if you knew what you were doing and had some more experience in the "Real world" and had actually gone to some high performance motor vehicle competition events you would not have to rely on THE NET for all your information. There is a whole world out here that doesn't have to rely on a computer to gather information.

"This guys just joined and posted that he is selling a SC for the Fit..? Do you have a Website? I mean if im going to shell out 3k+, i want to make sure i know what im getting and who im dealing with"

Your post is implying that just because a site doesn't not have a website and you never hear of them they can't be any good.

Your world are words coming from the administration staff of FitFreak and good ethics prohibit staff from disparaging a product especially using your demonstrated limited experience in making those judgments.

 

Im not trying to jump into the mix here but everyone knows that this back and fourth has been going on for some time. Yes Claymore you have a good point that Mods shouldnt openly advocate or endorse one product over another but in this case with Tool i dont 100% beleive that he was in the wrong. Tool wasnt bashing but asking a simple question. The wording may have been a bit off but if he was to edit that perticular post and re word it then no harm no foul imho. JDMChris on the other hand i could possibly see as being biased seeing that he has the KW kit but in his defense because he has the kit he can give real world opinions on his kit and could honestly compare it to the Thorley kit once people start buying them. If he does go into the red and say something about Thorleys product then that could be an issue but so far (unless i missed something) it looked clean. In other words i see both sides but the back and fourth between you guys is the bigger issue. Nothing is going to ever be resolved and is going to escalate until either someone gets banned or someone gets fired. Nobody here wants to see any of that so lets just move on before this gets bigger then it already is. Again im not trying to get in the middle and im not choosing sides just calling it how i see it. If im wrong or something in my post is incorrect then Mods feel free to delete my post.

 

I agree with jdjohnson9... i'm not going to choose sides but for real? do you seriously have nothing better to do than stir up trouble on a forum? i mean come on... stop fighting like middle school girlies.... (no offence to any one) and learn to get along!

 

Just because I point out issues that need pointing out you call that stirring up trouble.... I'm sure your like the rest of the sheep and would rather stick your head in the sand and hope this all goes away and Chris is a nice guy and all that but the problem of CONFLICT OF INTEREST among moderators is an ethical problem that needs to be solved whether or not you want to hear about it.

Simple solution to your problem .... make this your last click on this post and add my name to your ignore list problem solved. No more worrying about ethical dilemmas that make your brain hurt.

 

Im not gonna click ignore you because you do have helpful info and are not that bad of a guy claymore. I dont dislike you JDMChris or Tool. As i stated before you do have a point but at the same time because of the clashes that you have had with Mods before makes this "seem" like just anouther way to get back at them. Not saying that that is what you are doing but from the outside looking in thats what it "could" looklike to someone that has been around for a few months and seen it happen. Again you do have a good point but when it comes down to the bickering again it loses the original point of the thread. Thats all im saying and unless someone wants to pick me out of the crowd i wont post again.

 

In defence of Chris the Thorley kit HAS BEEN STATED BY CHRIS TO BE THE SAME EXACT KIT. NOW YOU ASK WHATS THE DIFFERENCE THEN. well it seems to me that KW and THORLEY at some point were in a partnership to create this kit together and durring development and testing the partnership was broken off. so the kit that THORLEY is selling is the old kit and when Chris experianced problems with the OLD kit KW made revisions to make the new kit run more efficiently and proporly. while thorley never had a chance to do this because they were no longer privy to chris' real world testing experience. So chris is bassically saying HEY i had this kit on my car. it was the original. i had complications and it wasnt running proporly. it could hurt the car in the long run. so KW fixed the problem so it wouldnt hurt the engine. and now this is the kit that we have. (wich creates more horsepower and torque by dino charts) so it would be IRRESPONSIBLE as a mod to not make it KNOWN and COMMON KNOWLEDGE THAT THIS KIT CAN HARM YOUR ENGINE IN THE LONG RUN AND KW HAS MADE THE CHANGES THAT THORLE COULDNT.

That being said id like to appologize for grammar and punctuation.

and ps.
claymore you cause to much trouble this place was much nicer when you were banned.

 

jdjohnson9, I was not referring to your post I was responding to firebatt666's rant about stirring up trouble as the only thing I do and this topic only being a web fight.

I posted the facts and options to solve the problem but TOOL took offense and started the go around. I wonder why it's always my fault and everyone feels free to make comments to me but no one dares say anything about "the moderator clique" every one treats them like gods kissing their feet and praising every "wow I love your new taillights post".

The whole point of the thread was to correct some unethical behavior not to "Get back at someone" I'm not a little kiddie that has to get back at someone I could care less what the "latchkey kid clique" thinks of me. And if it's only against mods why did I take sooo much heat for the K-20 posts no mods involved there. I call them as I see them and if that upsets the clique TS if someone doesn't like my style of calling a buffalo a buffalo then a click to the friendly "add claymore to my ignore list" will solve the problem no muss no fuss.

I guess it's because I'm a grown up that I still think business ethics, and conflicts of interest are an important subject to be debated if they involve the operation of this site. If the kiddies think it's not important and would rather avoid the "hard calls" fine go play with your x-boxes and don't click on the post and it won't bother them at all.

 

As usual SOX is having trouble reading and COMPREHENDING my post and has to resort to personal attacks to make up for his lack of reading comprehension. BUT NEVER MIND TOOL DO NOT LOCK THIS THREAD DUE TO SOX'S ATTACK I'M A BIG BOY AND HIS COMMENTS DON'T COUNT.

This is a post about his endorsement of the product not of the two products involved we will not be discussing the products themselves that is why they have their own posts GOT IT YET SOX?

Anyway for THE..... SLOW ....... READERS....... I never said Chris can't make all the comments he wants only that it's UNETHICAL to make them as a MODERATOR.

If he wants to act as an ad hoc adviser to KW superchargers be my guest but do it as a registered vendor and an ACKNOWLEDGED ADVOCATE OF THAT PRODUCT not as a moderator implying that FITFREAK As a whole Endorses this product.

You can't have it both ways either someone is a FAIR and IMPARTIAL moderator OR they are an advocate of a particular product one can not be BOTH at the same time.

 

dont you think however that as a mod it would be IRRESPONSIBLE not to make it known that this kit DOES have issues that could be potentionally harmfull to the engine?

and look whos making personal attacks lol or maybe just calling the massess slow will help get your point accross more efficiently lol.

i can agree that if they WERE two diff kits. WICH THEY ARE NOT!. it would be a conflict of interest for chris to advocate one over the other just because it was on his car or he likes one better etc. but like i said ITS THE SAME KIT. AND THE OLDER VERSION HAS BEEN UPDATED DUE TO ENGINE PROBLEMS THAT HAVE NOT! BEEN ADDRESSED BY THE NEW VENDOR.

 

like I have already said we will not be discussing the merits of one kit over the other they have their own posts for that. But for your main point I think you are confusing yourself how can they be THE SAME KIT but in the next sentence say and the older version has been updated?????

Which is it the SAME kit or one old kit and one new updated kit .....in that case they are not the SAME KIT?????

And if it was sooo much better while I as gone why are you STILL POSTING IN MY THREAD??? If it was so nice you can replicate that situation by clicking the "add claymore to my ignore list" win win

 

wow claymore, it seems as though your on your own on this one.....no one seems to want to back you up.

the easiest thing to do would be have them remove YOU from teh site rather than take away a valuble part of the administration who helps keep the site clean.

good luck, but just remember, your more dispensable than they are.

 

The way I read Tool's post in that thread is not "knocking" the kit, just looking for a little more input from the seller on the product he is selling, something that drives internet sales. You mentioned Ebay, how well will your item sell if you don't list a description of your item, and how will your item sell without pictures. Yes, SOME products stand for themselves and do not need pictures, but others, more specifically ones from less heard of companies will need pictures and a description.

And before you go on about how if I have real life experience in the high performance world, I've been doing this since I was quite young, and I'm sure I would have heard a little more about said company before now...

 

I'm new to this site and don't want to stir up trouble, but I can understand what claymore is saying.

I don't think that we need to grab a long pole, light our torches and head for the moderators door though. JDMChris was trying to convey his knowledge for the benefit of all FitFreakers. He was stuck between his role as moderator and his SOLE knowledge of the two supercharger kits for the Fit. I commend him on trying to help.

A more beneficial approach for the entire Fit population (not just the ones that are on this board) would be for him to call Doug Thorley and tell them what problems his car had. It would be wrong for him to divulge what the Jackson's did to change the kit, but it would be well within his right to inform DT what was going on and give them the chance to correct future kits. Once again, I'm not saying to harm the Jackson's by giving away their secrets or diminish all the hard work they have done. I'm just saying to tell DT what's wrong and give them a chance to either A. make changes or B. decide that the problems aren't severe enough to mess with.

Both Doug Thorley and the Jackson's have made fantastic products for many years. The primary difference is DT built their reputation on header production while the Jackson's are known for superchargers.

It's too bad that DT and the Jackson's weren't able to work together on this till the end. I'm guessing we could have had a fantastic supercharger/header combo.

 

Here's another thought...how about DT sells their kit as a "tuner kit" with only the hard parts. Then owners can either purchase a Supercard from KW or find another means of making it work.