Hi all,

I recently picked up a JDM 04 GD1 CVT 1.3L for my SO to (re)learn to drive in. She's been off the roads for years and we wanted to get something she can scrape and dent without too much concern. We ended up settling on one with 220k km with a CVT that doesn't slip or make any weird noises, for the equivalent of around $1650usd. Drove it home and averaged a rather unbelievable 25km/L or 58mpg US.

At this price I'm not expecting it to last forever, but I did see some signs for concern when I drained the oil. I can't be certain my oil pan was entirely clean prior to draining in it (it lives outside), but here's what I found:





Some of the glitter is shiny carbon, but some is not. It's less than the pictures make it look, but any glitter is bad glitter.

I pulled the plugs and had a look. They were all the correct OE plugs and 1, 2 & 3 looked great. Cylinder #4 had a fair amount of carbon flake visible on the plug. I have observed once it's fully warm, under certain conditions, it has what sounds like spark knock (pinging), similar to timing being too advanced, which might track with what I'm seeing in cylinder #4. It doesn't happen when cold, or when coasting, or at high load (accelerating), but only at medium load (about what it'd be at when cruising), and follows engine RPM. I'm leaning toward (spark) knock but I'm not certain about that diagnosis. I could see that beating up the bearings and creating some glitter, and also putting some carbon in the oil.

Some thoughts - are the JDM engines tuned to need 95RON? The previous owner has likely been running it on 91 (equivalent to AKI 89 and 87). There's no sticker near the fuel cap to indicate the need for 95, but there wouldn't be in a country that only sells 95 and above.

Do these L13 i-DSI engines have any common failure points?

What else might the noise be? Doesn't sound like valvetrain to me as I can hear the valves whirring and the sound (which is only present at certain RPM and load) sounds non-valvetrain. I can post a video if it helps. Next fillup I'll put some high octane in and see if there
is any change in behavior. Could also be that the #4 injector isn't clean, and it's making that cylinder run lean. Not sure if I should try a soak in #4 to clear the carbon out.

 

I can't comment on the forbidden glitter other than to say I hope it's not as bad as it looks!

Spark plug neglect causing ignition coil problems seems to be a fairly common issue. See this page at Springbok Photography about interference on the crank position signal and how to modify the wiring to reduce it. I have the L13A as well and found I had to change the spark plugs after about 17,000 km, as it would start to hesitate under certain driving conditions. The EGR valve is known for getting carboned up, and the valve lash would be worth checking if you don't know when it was last done. You could give the carbon cleaning a try - just be cautious if following the instructions for the CRC intake cleaner because you might hydro-lock the engine spraying so much in at a time! Maybe run some injector cleaner through as well.

It should run just fine on 91 RON: the Japanese owner's manual specifies "Unleaded regular gasoline (Lead-free high-octane can also be used)", and I believe Japanese "regular" is only 89 RON or greater. I tried mine on 95 RON for a tank or two and noticed absolutely no difference. The engine has a knock sensor as well. 25 km/L is commendable - mine gets something like 22 km/L on the open road but it usually fares quite a bit worse!

 

Thanks for your reply. I have no indication to suggest it's running poorly at all, except for a certain sound which is reminiscent of pinging, at part throttle, and only when warmed up. Plus the glitter, and that #4 had more carbon than the others. It "feels" fine. When I checked the plugs I swapped them with the NGK iridiums called for by the hybrid 1.3 iDSI, which made no noticeable change.

It's very possible what I'm hearing is just normal operation. I have nothing to reference it against. After we finish this tank well try one of high octane just to see. Can't hurt.

Good to know about the crank sensor, I might do that preventatively. I also hadn't thought about the EGR, but it makes sense. My other car is a G1 Insight and it's exactly the same. Valve lash is on my list to check, I had a new valve cover gasket in the mail but it was lost and I'm waiting on a claim.

 

That's cool that you have an early Insight - it's great to see those still on the road! What transmission does that have?

I notice you wrote "the plug" for cyl. #4 and thought I should check that wasn't a typo, since the i-DSI engines have dual plugs and coils per cylinder. They often only get half the plugs changed, and I also wondered if both #4 plugs from yours looked in similar condition.

 

Insight is a JDM, has the JDM manual gearbox which has different (slightly shorter) ratios than the USDM version, plus the lithium plug-in hybrid conversion.

I changed both front and rear plugs, and I didn't look closely at the rear #4 plug like I did with the front. I'd check but I expect the plugs have already been picked up and taken to the great parts bin in the sky. Here are the pics of the (front) #1 and #4 plugs, which I thought to snap a picture of at the time:





I imagine if one cylinder is getting a lot more or less EGR, it could cause some of these symptoms.

 

Thanks for posting the photos and Insight info. When I did the valves on my Fit, I found the passages in the EGR plate were caked with carbon. That sort of restriction could well cause excessive EGR flow to other cylinders. I also wonder about piston ring condition in #4. Any sign of burning oil? An OBD dongle might tell you of any fault codes and check air-fuel ratios.

 

No smoke. The valve cover has a small oil leak (waiting on the gasket). I haven't had it long enough to have an idea of make-up oil, if any.

Good idea with the obd dongle. No lights on the dash but it might have stored codes. Are these cars wideband? I know the 1.3 in the hybrid is extremely similar, and they're lean burn.

 

I believe they're not lean burn, wideband upstream. Mine always seems to run a little rich but has never thrown a code for that.

If it might be running rich in cylinder #4, have a listen to the injectors with a stethoscope or screwdriver and see if anything sounds amiss. I'm sure you'll have checked the engine air filter already. You could try some injector cleaner too.

Valvoline's new Restore and Protect oil might be worth trying in case of stuck/dirty rings.

 

Already changed the oil with Valvoline Restore & Protect 5w30, and there is injector cleaner in the tank. Air filter looked new. I thought about pulling the injector rail and cranking it a few times to see the spray pattern, will possibly do it this weekend if I clean the EGR plate. Looks like I have a few actionable items, thank you.

 

Good stuff! I was also thinking that having a peek into the cylinders (if you have/can borrow a borescope) could be helpful in assessing how carboned-up #4 is. There might well be enough carbon that it increases the compression ratio enough to cause sporadic pinging. Whether the root cause is injectors, rings, valves, EGR, or something else I couldn't say. Hopefully you can get that valve cover soon!

 

Anyone know if the coil packs for the 03-05 Civic Hybrid are the same as the 1.3 i-DSI Fit/Jazz engine? They're both 8 coil pack L13's from the same period.

 

If it helps, these are the part numbers for the Fit's L13A engine:

Front:
30520-PWA-003
NGK U5097
Hitachi CM11-108 (U09007)

Rear:
30521-PWA-003
NGK U5098
Hitachi CM11-109 (U09006)

I went the NGKs when I replaced mine (they weren't too pricy from ngk.com, but that was about four years ago).

You might find that the Civic Hybrid uses the same NGK U5098 coils front and back.

 

Looks like they're the same. eBay and Rock Auto both have generic coils that fit for significantly less than Hitachis, but I don't know their quality.

 

Ordered a set of coils. Did the valve cover gasket, EGR plate and valve cleaning, and valve lash today. The EGR passages were fully blocked in places. The intake valves were all significantly out of spec (loose), while the exhaust were all still close.

On a test drive: Pinging reduced 99%, which leads me to believe it really was pinging, despite the engine having a knock sensor. I can still get it to ping slightly in some transitional cases at moderate load, low RPM, but it's only a quarter second or so when moving the throttle quickly. It no longer happens for any prolonged period at fixed load/RPM. I'll run a tank of 98 next and see if it goes away entirely. Still finishing up one of regular.

 

Yes! Great result, and looks nice and clean under the valve cover. That EGR plate is impressively clogged, and certainly worse than mine was. I wonder how quickly that builds up (I guess I'll find out next time I do the valves on mine).

I believe these engines are quite high compression for the era and so might be a bit prone to pinging. The only time mine ever did it was after using the CRC intake cleaner and I think there was some residual liquid in the engine. Some foaming engine cleaner in cylinder 4 might still be helpful, or just let the Restore & Protect do its thing.

I couldn't help noticing last time I was in Wellington how many 1st-gen Fits/Jazzes are still around. Good work keeping this one on the road. Hope your SO appreciates all the work!

 

Thanks for your help!

Insights are known for gunked up EGR plates. I'd say they probably need cleaning by 200k km.

I agree, Wellington has a ton of these, but a lot of them have some degree of rust and aren't too far from needing repairs to stay on the road. The moist sea breeze isn't kind to them.