Front strut/damper top mounts: how much play is too much?
My 2006 JDM GD1 failed its roadworthiness check due to excessive play in the front strut/damper top mounts. It's known that these have significant play when unloaded (such as when on a hoist supported only by the body) and I'm not convinced that the car actually has a problem. There's a note about this in a New Zealand Transport Authority advisory from 2010:
https://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt....ews-15-web.pdf
The technician demonstrated the apparent issue to me with the car on a hoist, and both sides are indeed wobbly in that condition. It did seem as if the right wheel was a bit more mobile than the left, which would suggest an actual problem with that side, but I've no idea how much play is too much. I have a month to get it fixed if I want to avoid paying for a second inspection. The garage doing the inspection has quoted approx. NZ$500 for the repairs, which I could potentially do myself for about NZ$170 in parts, assuming I only need to replace the conical bushing, the top plate, and perhaps the bearing (I would do both sides, of course). It looks like the bushing and top plate can be replaced without messing with the coil spring (I have neither the tools nor the gumption to tackle that), but I'm not sure about the bearing.
I have the car up on jack stands at the moment, and with the knuckle supported by a jack so that the suspension is loaded with the wheel off the ground, it all seems quite solid.
Thanks for any advice!
https://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt....ews-15-web.pdf
The technician demonstrated the apparent issue to me with the car on a hoist, and both sides are indeed wobbly in that condition. It did seem as if the right wheel was a bit more mobile than the left, which would suggest an actual problem with that side, but I've no idea how much play is too much. I have a month to get it fixed if I want to avoid paying for a second inspection. The garage doing the inspection has quoted approx. NZ$500 for the repairs, which I could potentially do myself for about NZ$170 in parts, assuming I only need to replace the conical bushing, the top plate, and perhaps the bearing (I would do both sides, of course). It looks like the bushing and top plate can be replaced without messing with the coil spring (I have neither the tools nor the gumption to tackle that), but I'm not sure about the bearing.
I have the car up on jack stands at the moment, and with the knuckle supported by a jack so that the suspension is loaded with the wheel off the ground, it all seems quite solid.
Thanks for any advice!
I've taken the front right strut out to inspect further. The conical bushing looks fine but the bearing underneath seems in pretty bad shape: it feels pretty graunchy and wibbly-wobbly, and there's visible rust around the top. I think the inspecting technician was correct in identifying a problem. The bump stop is also a bit split/torn at the bottom end, but maybe isn't a critical part.
I'm now thinking of buying a spring compressor kit and giving it a go myself, though I am very wary of how dangerous a loaded coil spring can be. Or is this something I should be leaving to a professional?
I'm now thinking of buying a spring compressor kit and giving it a go myself, though I am very wary of how dangerous a loaded coil spring can be. Or is this something I should be leaving to a professional?
Do you have auto parts stores in NZ? Here in the US, many auto parts stores will rent out tools like spring compressors, which can save you some money on a tool you may never use again (or at least not often).
If used correctly a spring compressor tool is reasonably safe. If you don't know what you're doing or aren't careful, you can get badly hurt. This is no different than many other tools, like automotive jacks, hammers, powered saws, etc.
If you don't want to mess with the spring compressor tool or paying a mechanic, have a look to see if you can buy a complete strut assembly which comes with a pre-assembled strut, spring, etc. It might not be a bad option for a 20-year-old car.
If used correctly a spring compressor tool is reasonably safe. If you don't know what you're doing or aren't careful, you can get badly hurt. This is no different than many other tools, like automotive jacks, hammers, powered saws, etc.
If you don't want to mess with the spring compressor tool or paying a mechanic, have a look to see if you can buy a complete strut assembly which comes with a pre-assembled strut, spring, etc. It might not be a bad option for a 20-year-old car.
Thanks Drew21 for the suggestions, especially the idea of replacing both struts entirely. I at least feel confident now that I can change them out myself if I decide to go that route.
The two main chains here are Supercheap Auto and Repco (both Australian-owned, like much of New Zealand these days!) but I'm not sure if they do tool hire - I'll ask. I did find a set of spring compressors that look identical to the Supercheap ones elsewhere for about half the price (ironically!), and I'm liking the idea of using four compressors for extra safety and to distribute the load.
I've now pulled the left strut as well and the bearing is in better condition than the right, but both are quite loose (up-and-down and tilting movement). For all I know this might be normal for this type of bearing when unloaded. The conical bushings look perfectly fine on both sides. I did notice that the bump stops are a bit torn up at the ends, but I don't think these are critical for safety inspections. Then again, if I'm compressing the springs to replace the bearings anyway, maybe I should do the bump stops too...
The two main chains here are Supercheap Auto and Repco (both Australian-owned, like much of New Zealand these days!) but I'm not sure if they do tool hire - I'll ask. I did find a set of spring compressors that look identical to the Supercheap ones elsewhere for about half the price (ironically!), and I'm liking the idea of using four compressors for extra safety and to distribute the load.
I've now pulled the left strut as well and the bearing is in better condition than the right, but both are quite loose (up-and-down and tilting movement). For all I know this might be normal for this type of bearing when unloaded. The conical bushings look perfectly fine on both sides. I did notice that the bump stops are a bit torn up at the ends, but I don't think these are critical for safety inspections. Then again, if I'm compressing the springs to replace the bearings anyway, maybe I should do the bump stops too...
A small update: I've bought two pairs of 370 mm (15 inch) spring compressors and ordered new OEM damper bearings and bump stops from jp-carparts.com. I also have a Honda bulletin that states that there is no specification for free play when the front suspension is unloaded, as that is not the correct condition for checking for play. I'll bring a copy of that when getting the car re-inspected.
In preparation, I've greased the spring compressors with Castrol lithium complex grease (extreme pressure rated) and plan to use some zip ties to secure the compressors to the spring (and to each other) to reduce the risk of anything slipping out of place during use. I'll try to use three or four compressors when compressing each spring. I think it will be a couple of weeks until the replacement parts arrive.
In preparation, I've greased the spring compressors with Castrol lithium complex grease (extreme pressure rated) and plan to use some zip ties to secure the compressors to the spring (and to each other) to reduce the risk of anything slipping out of place during use. I'll try to use three or four compressors when compressing each spring. I think it will be a couple of weeks until the replacement parts arrive.
I understand your idea of 3-4 compressors for safety, but I'm not sure you will be able to get that many to fit on the spring. Regarding your Zip ties, I'm not sure they're necessary or will actually add to your safety margin. Once the tools are under compression they can't really move (if the ones you have are at all like the basic ones I have used). If you want a scare, you can find videos online where folks do this project using only (a bunch of) Zip ties. Some real Darwin Award winners there.
1) You have to mount the spring compressors so that the extension that occurs when the spring compresses happens downwards (if you imagine the spring/strut still mounted on the car). If the extension instead goes up you create a lot of difficulty accessing the nut at the top of the strut. I suppose you could still do it, but it would be a lot more work.
2) So, your extension is in the downwards direction, except on every car I have personally messed with (admittedly, haven't done my Fit yet), the plate on the strut that the spring sits on is quite large and somewhat offset. In practice, this means that the spring compressors can only be mounted on certain parts of the spring to avoid hitting that plate when you compress the spring. I guess if you didn't care about chewing up the paint/coating on the strut this might not be an issue, but I live in a high salt area so never want to create exposed metal.
This will make more sense once you have all the bits in hand and start the job,
It is good that you're thinking carefully about the process. Take your time and you will be fine.
1) You have to mount the spring compressors so that the extension that occurs when the spring compresses happens downwards (if you imagine the spring/strut still mounted on the car). If the extension instead goes up you create a lot of difficulty accessing the nut at the top of the strut. I suppose you could still do it, but it would be a lot more work.
2) So, your extension is in the downwards direction, except on every car I have personally messed with (admittedly, haven't done my Fit yet), the plate on the strut that the spring sits on is quite large and somewhat offset. In practice, this means that the spring compressors can only be mounted on certain parts of the spring to avoid hitting that plate when you compress the spring. I guess if you didn't care about chewing up the paint/coating on the strut this might not be an issue, but I live in a high salt area so never want to create exposed metal.
This will make more sense once you have all the bits in hand and start the job,
It is good that you're thinking carefully about the process. Take your time and you will be fine.
When I’ve done shocks, I rented a lift in a shop that gave me access to a professional spring compressor. These are nice.
i also bought my own spring compressors. The sketchy thing about spring compressors in general is that they will usually be uneven when installed on opposite sides (as they should) since suspension springs have such a large pitch. Mine have pins that go on the inside of the spring such that notching can go flinging if they were to slip. The safest way in my opinion is to go slow and steady and tighten each side incrementally, even using a ratchet rather than a power tool if you are not 100% sure you can make very short bursts.
KYB struts have been great to me but next time, I think I would just go with quick struts. I don’t think KYB quick struts were available for the GD Fit which is why I replaced just the struts. In my opinion, the bump stops and bellows from KYB were super cheap compared to OEM. I would reuse these if you can; just one OE bellow is more than 40$ CDN if I remember correctly.
i also bought my own spring compressors. The sketchy thing about spring compressors in general is that they will usually be uneven when installed on opposite sides (as they should) since suspension springs have such a large pitch. Mine have pins that go on the inside of the spring such that notching can go flinging if they were to slip. The safest way in my opinion is to go slow and steady and tighten each side incrementally, even using a ratchet rather than a power tool if you are not 100% sure you can make very short bursts.
KYB struts have been great to me but next time, I think I would just go with quick struts. I don’t think KYB quick struts were available for the GD Fit which is why I replaced just the struts. In my opinion, the bump stops and bellows from KYB were super cheap compared to OEM. I would reuse these if you can; just one OE bellow is more than 40$ CDN if I remember correctly.
Thanks everyone for the great suggestions and support! I did the work on Saturday with no mishaps, and used three spring compressors spaced uniformly around the coil to get it done, using strictly only hand tools and working gradually (all the instructions on using those "widow-maker" compressors stress never to use power tools!). I only compressed just enough to get things loose, and it was only at the very end that I started to feel any significant resistance (and I can see how important it is to grease the threads!). Each side needed to be compressed and decompressed twice, since I had to take the top spring seats off to replace the bearings and bump stops.
I used a gear puller and a small wooden puck to push out the old bearing, and my woodworking vice to press in the new one. The right bearing was indeed a bit damaged, and felt slightly "lumpy" when rotating, though I don't see how it could cause excessive play. Left one was fine (as smooth as the new ones) but I replaced both sides. One bellows/dust cover had a small split in one side but I didn't think it was worth replacing. Both dampers gave smooth resistance throughout their travel, but neither one showed much self-extension/rebound, so it might have been a good idea to replace those as well, sigh. I also tweaked the front camber slightly negative by installing the thinner adjusting pinch bolts in the upper positions.
The car feels fine on the road and goes in tomorrow for reinspection. I'm thinking to install rubber rings above the body strut towers as described here just to decrease the unloaded play a little more. I'm still bothered that the initial inspection wasn't done correctly though.
I used a gear puller and a small wooden puck to push out the old bearing, and my woodworking vice to press in the new one. The right bearing was indeed a bit damaged, and felt slightly "lumpy" when rotating, though I don't see how it could cause excessive play. Left one was fine (as smooth as the new ones) but I replaced both sides. One bellows/dust cover had a small split in one side but I didn't think it was worth replacing. Both dampers gave smooth resistance throughout their travel, but neither one showed much self-extension/rebound, so it might have been a good idea to replace those as well, sigh. I also tweaked the front camber slightly negative by installing the thinner adjusting pinch bolts in the upper positions.
The car feels fine on the road and goes in tomorrow for reinspection. I'm thinking to install rubber rings above the body strut towers as described here just to decrease the unloaded play a little more. I'm still bothered that the initial inspection wasn't done correctly though.
Well, it passed inspection, but I think the technician wasn't very happy about the additional rubber rings at the top (like me, he didn't see that they'd make much difference to the ride or solve the looseness issue). However, he did mention finding information online that up to 10 mm of gap at the strut tops when on the road seemed to be normal, and mine measured about 8 mm (not counting the rings).
What was interesting was that he'd interpreted the "old vs new" photos in the NZTA and Honda bulletins as saying that the conical bushings could become compressed and loose over time, whereas I'd thought it was talking about an updated part design (the new part being slightly taller). His main safety concern was that going over large bumps could result in the suspension becoming momentarily unstable. I'm still wondering if I should have replaced the bushings, which did appear to be perfectly fine. Maybe I'll seek a second opinion. At a later stage I might still replace both bushings and dampers with new ones.
After doing some driving in the wet, I've decided to set the camber back to stock. While the steering is more nimble with the slight negative camber, I think the cheap tyres need all the help they can get in terms of grip! Next time I'll upgrade to something better (maybe Michelins or Continentals).
What was interesting was that he'd interpreted the "old vs new" photos in the NZTA and Honda bulletins as saying that the conical bushings could become compressed and loose over time, whereas I'd thought it was talking about an updated part design (the new part being slightly taller). His main safety concern was that going over large bumps could result in the suspension becoming momentarily unstable. I'm still wondering if I should have replaced the bushings, which did appear to be perfectly fine. Maybe I'll seek a second opinion. At a later stage I might still replace both bushings and dampers with new ones.
After doing some driving in the wet, I've decided to set the camber back to stock. While the steering is more nimble with the slight negative camber, I think the cheap tyres need all the help they can get in terms of grip! Next time I'll upgrade to something better (maybe Michelins or Continentals).
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
paanta
2nd Generation (GE 08-13)
2
Aug 13, 2016 02:49 PM
ewong12
General Fit Modifications Discussion
14
Jan 11, 2012 01:38 AM
gmanfit
Fit Suspension & Brake Modifications
3
Feb 22, 2010 11:00 PM



