they call it timing the spark plug. and ya it does make a difference when running high hp. i think it would be fine on the fit without doing it unless someone has a high hp and is having problems with detonation.

 

That's what I am trying to find out. For me and you I expect there should be a significant difference.

I say this because you are already squeezing 141whp out of the little 1.5L hamster mill under the hood in hot (35-40*C) humid Jakarta weather on Indonesian fuel, which of the other members there that I have helped they tell me can be pretty inconsistent in quality. Does that sound accurate?

So that 141whp is quite impressive given the circumstances. I would wager if you did a back-to-back test between a 7 and 6 range plug you would see a significant difference in your torque output, perhaps not a huge change in peak horsepower though.

I am doing this in anticipation of going boosted on a turbo that is considerably larger than pretty much anyone else on this site, and I want to run 1.5bar boost with water/methanol injection and eventually a switch to E85 fuel.

So I am trying to give myself the best possible chance to max out a decent sized turbo on our engine. I want to make 300whp/300wtq.

For me indexing could be the difference between going boom or not. We shall see. On a stock Fit you could stand to gain a noticeable amount of area under the torque curve due to the ability of the ECU to advance timing on whatever fuel you are using. Timing is directly related to torque production, and horsepower is derived from torque. Horsepower is torque over time. At any point where you make more torque, you are going to make more HP.

 

DSM on the NGK plugs the higher the number the colder it is.

 

Gah... yea you are right thanks for catching that!

I should know better lol I use BR9ES's on the racecar

 

Any real benefit to be found by using the projected tip plugs in a N/A motor using American gas? Do the stockers have projected tips or no? I'm at 102K on my stockers and it is REALLY time for them to get swapped out, reason for all the questions.....

 

Received and installed replacement Fujita filter.

 

You're right on the spot describing the condition here. particularly about the damn fuel. i use ron95 from a global oil company, it helps a bit compared to local company. but even that, i'm still faced with knocking on high rpm sometimes.

and you've just hinted me on my problem there. ECU is able to advance timing based on fuel? is this the idle relearning i heard about? lately i've been feeling a dip in torque and sometimes knocking on high rpm. i'm going to bring the piggyback to the shop and check the timing. Do you know of a sure way to fool the ecu and turn off the relearning?

 

btw, r u sure the L15 block can survive 300whp? i was thinking 200-220 is the most i can get from a boosted L15 without splitting the block?

 

There are a couple Fit's, one of which is in Jakarta, the other in Bahrain that are both currently making more than 220whp on pump gas on tiny inefficient turbos. The gentleman in Bahrain is making about 250whp on a GT2860R in the desert heat.

I am taking my time and trying to put all the complementary bits together and I am going to slowly step it up.

So far my recipe includes:

• 35lb/min compressor with a 7cm2 turbine housing
• 30"x12"x3" Intercooler
• Water/Methanol injection
• 93oct E10 Gas/118oct Toluene
• 2.75" IC piping
• 3" exhaust
• Dumped wastegate

Run pig rich, low timing and high boost.

My goal is 300 or bust. Fortunately the L15A1's are dirt cheap as far as whole engines are concerned. I have some other tricks up my sleeve but I am still forming the rest of my attack plan.

The best part of my challenge is that I am trying to do it for less than US$1000

The ECU is able to advance the timing based on what the knock sensor will let it get away with.

Good fuel, cold plugs, cold air and a smooth combustion chamber are the key components. You could try to inject a very small amount of pure water or water/alcohol to further help fight knock.

I don't think the idle learn procedure will help you where you need it. Depending on the MON of your fuel, if I recall correctly you are using the Equivalent of US AKI 89octane fuel. Which is comparable to our midgrade, but without the ethanol, toluene and some of the other additives like detergents.

That is what I am trying to determine, so far signs are increasingly pointing towards non-projected cold plugs angled towards the flat "squish" area between the smaller two valves. But this is too soon to tell, as I have other heights and angles to test. I believe the stock plugs are projected tip.

Your plug choice should be made based on your environment, driving style and fuel.

But for reference for all of the last year I was running non-projected 6-range plugs with 93octane fuel (Both E10 and E0) in weather ranging from 102*F with 90% humidity last week to the -21F (-40F windchill!) & 20% humidity days we had in early 2010.

I have never had an issue starting up on the stock battery and no issues with fouling. In fact, the stock plugs I pulled were slightly white instead of the ideal golden tinge you want on the proper plug. I'll take pictures as I still have them for comparison to when I pull this set of Denso's next time I go in to re-orient them.

Adding up all the little gains has made for a dramatic change in driving feel.

The Fit is my secondary project car, but I commute with it since the RAV4 only does mid-high 20's MPG. So I am biding my time and collecting as much info and parts as possible before I put the GD3 down for major surgery.

I have been averaging tanks under spirited driving between 38-44mpg. This includes using the AC and spending 30 miles of my 40 mile commute (each way!) on the highway between 65-80mph which is whatever traffic is doing that day.

 

DSM, wait for me, I'm trying to catch my breath man!

 

Heh if bits of that word salad need clarification let me know vinny! It's been a long couple weeks as MNFit pointed out earlier and I may have missed something or made a mistake! I really try not to though.

I think any chance at meeting or even getting clost to my admittedly lofty goals on stock internals are going to require nailing down all the small stuff too.

It all adds up after all!

 

Understood....

 

@Dsm, wait, r u telling me, ur going to try to get 300whp out of stock internals? Not even forged rods? Wow, it'd be something if u can nail it. Tell u the truth, i dont have the balls nor the funds to take that risk man... Keep us posted on that project, will you?

Btw im running 95octane fuel, the best pump fuel we can get here. But i wouldn't know how to compare it to what you have there. Don't really understand the chemicals running inside that fuel.. All i know is this damn knocking just appeared recently, and my best guess is somehow my timing is off.. Second best guess is the fuel i bought is crappy... You know about our fuel problem right?

 

how many passes are you planning on making at 300whp? or are you just hoping the dyno runs down the track?

im not going to lie, im not familiar with these motors AT ALL, but 300whp seems extremely far-fetched. the d series motors with built motors can push near 300whp. even with a built motor, i'd be amazed and you would be praised a god if you could pull that off and make it even reliable for one "race season".

more power to you for pushing the platform.

 

Guys, im not positive, but I belive dsm already has rods and pistons waiting for the install. If not he is the man to pull that off, but we should not try it at home.lol

 

To double output you only need ~20% increase in cylinder pressure. It is the rod angle that cylinder pressure peaks at that is my concern. These things aren't exactly linear, but I am expecting to need a ~50% increase in cylinder pressure to hit the 200whp/liter mark.

I know all too well that all engines are different but there are more than a few engines from a few manufacturers that with the right parts can certainly support that figure. I am expecting to maybe need some tool steel rod and head bolts, but I genuinely believe this is do-able. But I don't intend to fire it up on kill mode, it will be a gradual process.

I will be pulling the oil-pan routinely to check the bottom end I should point out.

300whp/300lb-ft is what I intend to build up to and the trickiest bit is I want to do this with a stock-ish redline.

300wtq is what I really want, but that will be even harder than 300whp. I already know of two guys pushing 250whp in less than ideal conditions (fuel/atmospheric) with relatively insophisticated tunes and hardware. There is a guy with a full out build, who's name escapes me at the moment that put down 440whp in a GD3 overseas. There is a 530whp LEA (1.5L). 300whp is nowhere near that league.

That is why I am going through the process of trying to tweak every conceivable detail down to indexing the plugs and adjusting their height to try and keep temperature and pressure symmetrical as is possible.

I have already talked to a buddy who will be sourcing me some rods and tool steel wrist-pins in the event there is a failure. I expect a rod to fail first frankly due to how friggin skinny they are and that we don't have the R/S ratio I want (though I have plans to remedy that in the future as well).

Like I said though, there are engines like the Honda K and the 4G63 which can put down 300whp/liter in stock form. It's all about complementary parts, good fuel, cold charge and a smart tune.

I want to see what the baby L-series can do. Note: this is without winding it to the moon, I will be using an 7.5k redline unless it proves absolutely impossible.

Pack as much air in as possible, run pig rich with relatively low timing.. a formula I have used in much more extreme applications that suits me well. Granted I may find the motor likes to be run lean with 20* peak advance on only 30lb/min mass flow, but that is unlikely to be honest.

I will probably need at least 34lb/min, and with the compressor/turbine I have chosen at the moment that will require 20-22psi, a big intercooler and a healthy dose of meth.

With a built motor, there is no question this is do-able because its been done. Sleeves, Rods, rod/head/main bolts and maybe pistons are all you need and then the sky's the limit. There's not much of a challenge there frankly.

But 300whp or harder still 300wtq on stock internals is up in the air at the moment.

Anyone can throw in some Manley/Crower/K1/Eagle rods, Darton sleeves and some Wiseco/Mahle/CP pistons and shoot for the moon. The parts to make 400whp+ already exist. I want to see what the OE stuff can handle. And even then, until we have seen a couple hundred motors fail at the exact same point there is no established limit (or at least one that Honda has published) for the L15A1/7 internals.

If I blow up at 240whp, that doesn't mean the limit is 240whp. If I blow up at 240whp on the nose 5 times in a row, then there is a compelling case as long as it is for the same reason.

 

Hell, yeah, go for it man! You and I have the same tuning philosophy I think. You just chose to go F/I, and I stayed N/A (mainly due to lackof knowledge and funds on my part.) My commute is currently 68 miles one way, mostly highway speeds, but that may be changing in the near future. Even our average fuel economy is the same! Kinda funny actually. I wanna see the video of your test runs on stock guts fer sure...

 

Shoot at it man, just don't forget to make a thread about it and keep us posted... And I'll buy the magazine featuring your completed car

 

DSM..you said that you were an engineer by trade, however; I think you're a motivated "rocket" engineer but just haven't realized yet....

<I'm subscribed>

 

so since mid feb i still havent seen my js gt wing yet. getting really antzy. anywho i put a 12.1 flip down tv in headliner and recovered in swede. should be seeing my js racing grill and front lip in today and will install them sometime before this weekend is over. my wife painted my valve cover blue and am waiting to put it on until i order my weapon r intake manifold. that should bring the engine bay out a lot. pics soon to come.