Has anyone ever had to replace their coilpacks more than once?

A couple of years ago at the 50-55k mark, honda replaced all my coilpacks to resolve the common "stuttering" issue that has been experenced by many fit owners. Infact, at the time i took a print out of the thread to show honda so i could get the problem fixed quickly. Anyways, 60k miles later my honda is doing this again, this time unfourtunatly the car is out of warrenty. If i have to have the coilpacks replaced again, i'm going to have them replace all the plugs and coilpacks so i dont have to mess with it any further, but before i give them instruction, i want to make sure that this is the problem and people have had to replace these things more than once.

thanks,
Zack

 

Not sure what the failure mode of the Honda coil packs are, but on my old 95 Jetta VR6 the coil packs would only last 30000 mile. The potting material would start cracking and moisture would get inside causing misfires. The cure was to coat the potting with a high temperature epoxy. They would last forever after that.
2002 VW Jetta VR6 weak spark all six plugs. What's wrong and how do do I check? (Electrical Ignition Volkswagen Jetta Engine No start)

 

I'm replacing my coil packs for the first time at 101k miles but i have put up with the problem for awhile. I am going to ask the mechanic to do the following based on advice in this forum..."I didn't replace anything, either coil packs, or spark plugs need to be replaced. All I did was to buy a $4.95 Permatex 67 VR dielectric grease. Applied a thin layer with Q-tip within the inside of red rubber portions. with a little bit extra remained around rubber rims so that when you insert back coil pack to position, those extra grease would be automatically applied to ceramic portion of spark plugs, which helps insulation of moisture and eletric pulse.

Easy DIY job, the only trick is to get on the 4th coil pack due to the position, it is hard to operate, but you can still do it just takes more time."

 

So what exactly are the symptoms of bad packs? How do you diagnose? OBD? Or just seat of the pants?

 

Chairman Kaga---there are many threads about this topic and most have something in the title about sputtering, hesitating, engine mis-firing etc. At traffic lights the idle goes low enough to even die, or when you accelerate to get on a highway, it feels like the transmission slips or doesn't know what gear to go into. You may feel a loss of power when you need it and then the orange check engine light either flashes or stays on. Mine flashed 2 days ago and I went to Auto Zone as was suggested here. They plug a hand-held computer under your dash and read the code. There is a code for each cylinder (coil pack) and a fifth one that can be any of them. I had 4 codes show out of the 5 so it means i definitely need all 4 new ones. You will know. The mechanic is a little leary of me, being female and going ahead and buying the parts like I'm sure of what it is but I've read enough of this forum that I am sure about this particular issue.

 

For some reason the OBD2 doesn't always record the problem with the coil packs going bad.. There are tiny breaks in the coils that cause the engine to misfire when the engine is under load at mid revs.. The voltage is higher at idle so the problem usually as isn't noticeable at idle... This has been a problem on other cars with the same type of ignition system.. Coating the coils with some type of epoxy coating has worked well for some on a VW forum as has wrapping them with ReflectaGold tape.

 

spraying the packs with a mist of water my help find which one is bad. Arcing will occur if on has cracks.

 

The 'standard' life of coil paks is about 55,000 miles on average, meaning 50% of them fail by then. The +3 sigma, or uppedr limit is about 100,000 miles, meaning that 95% will fail by then. about 5% (-3s)wiill fail at 25k miles. Its not gaussian but askewed curve.
At 110 to 115k miles on average you can expect to replace them again if you did at 55k.

 

I'm starting to think that the coil packs are something that Honda has contracted Lucas Electrics to throw together for them....

 

lulz @ the Lucas reference, TC.

Based on my past Hondas I have to assume they've been contracting out to Lucas for awhile.

Its the one area I've always had issues with on my Hondas (electronics in general)

 

Why do the British drink warm beer???? Lucas also makes their refrigerators... I can't remember how many times I had to solder a wire that was cut too short back together in an 82 Accord we had.. It was in the steering column I think for the head light dimmer switch. That and a leaky float in the carburetor was the only problems that I had to repair on that car.. Honda parts are terribly expensive, I spent around $50 for a carburetor kit just to get a new float.. Never had wiring or electrical problems on any of my Honda motorcycles or the Fit.

 

Actually, no manufacurer has anything but EXPENSIVE maintenance parts. Part of the cost is the extremely tight tolerances on fuel delivery and ignition specifications in order to meet emission regs. Spending $200 every 50k miles rather than used to be $15 on a four cylinder to reset ignition and new plugs is just part of the needs for a cleaner environment, so they say.
Just be glad you aren't driving an eight cylinder behemoth with dual spark plugs. People are beginning to check regular maintenance costs before buying.

 

For an entertaing half hour google 'lucas jokes'; there was even a published book of them and it wasn't that thin. But never had your problems with any of our 27 Hondas begining in 1976. Honda was the first company I was aware of that really applied Deeming quality methods.
Deemings was the first American thrown out of Detroit for his quality approach and when he presented it to Japan they prompted kicked Detroit way back in 10th place.

 

I remember reading about Deemings..Detroit didn't want him around... He was credited with being the one that streamlined the manufacturing of military goods and weaponry during WW2...

 

My third cylinder coil pack snapped and the motor shot the coil pack along with the spark plug. I am hoping that the threads aren't stripped and I am thankful that the spark plug didn't get sucked into the engine. So I am guessing instead of replacing that coil pack I have to replace all of them? :/ Should I go ahead and do the spark plugs too? Also is there a way to take the intake mani off to get to the spark plugs? Idk if I am talking to the right owners but I am near 82K and one shot out today and now I am car-less. :/ With $356 roughly for coil packs and like what? $20 for spark plugs? Idk, I have never bought spark plugs before so idk the price.

 

You guys talking about Deming, the king of processes, Seven Deadly Diseases? If so then yup, he's the efficiency expert. Detroit didn't want to listen so he went to Japan, they listened and the rest is history...

Sorry CFO, TC and Mahout should be able to help you out...

 

Wow. This sounds like a loose spark plug caused this. I have never seen this on a running engine that someone hadn't cross threaded or over torqued the plug on a recent installation.

What I can not understand is how a plug could unscrew that far in normal driving. I see no reason to replace the good coil packs. Since you have 82k miles, I would just go ahead and replace all of the plugs and the one bad coil pack.

While replacing the other plugs you will be able to check to see that all of the remaining plugs are in tight. If the one hole is damaged, probably only the top thread (or two) is damaged. If you can not restart a new plug in there, get a tap and chase out the threads. If it is really stripped then you will need to get a heli-coil kit and install it. Ask at a good autoparts store. They should have heli-coils.

Thread Repair Inserts - HELICOIL - Thread Insert - Grainger Industrial Supply


Oh yes, look up the torque spec and torque the new plugs when installing them. I'm guessing it should be around 13 to 15 foot-pounds but LOOK IT UP to make sure. On aluminum heads I always use a very little bit of anti-seize on the threads. Do not cover the first two threads and do not get anti-seize anywhere near the electrodes.

Lot of companies make anti-seize. You can find it at AutoZone or your favorite parts store. Get the smallest container you can find and it will last you for years.

https://www.google.com/search?q=anti...w=1024&bih=615

Search: anti seize | Lube | AutoZone.com

Good Luck

 

Ok, Unfortunately I paid for a diagnostic on my car before I heard about a coil pack and found this site. Now since it can be done by me. Can someone show me what is is and where to find it in my car so I can fix it myself. Thank you

 

The coil pak is that 'box' on top of each of the spark plugs. It is merely a single coil to fire that spark plug same as the single coil used to be switched on and off for multiple plugs. They have an avanage of being solid state electronics that 'fire' faster and supposedly more reliably. Search 'coil paks' for photos.
They wear out just as the old coils did and likewise the spark pliugs. typically about 50,000 miles is the standard to replace but reworld experience shows the life as little as 30k and as much as 125k miles. Like all things on a production line some complete better than others. And perhaps by countries as well. Based on my experience testing parts many things from China are a bit behind other countries. As China adopts Deming statistical production guidelines that will disappear but for now cheaper beats better.
PS many auto parts stores will perform OBDll diagnostics for you for free but you can also buy your own for around $50 at same stores. When codes beyond the 'usual' ones, that is, ones specific to your car model, you may have to use the net to decipher.

 

For everyone's reference here's a 3-yr. old DIY thread that Sid 6.7 posted with great pictures:
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-...tml#post706027

Hope it helps.