Hello!
Let me put the disclaimer out there that I have not learned to talk car. So keep things simple.
My 1992 Toyota Previa finally bit the dust with a blown head gasket last Thursday at over 300,000 miles. A very sad day, let us all bow our heads in remembrance. She was a hand me down from my family.
I am now looking for a smaller (though it will be an adjustment!) car with much better gas mileage. I have it narrowed down to a Fit or a Matrix, though I will take suggestions. I have a very strict budget of $10,000 including tax and fees. From what I have sniffed out, that puts me in the 07-08 years of the Fit with 60-80K miles on them, and similar mileage on the Matrix though obviously the years can go back more. I can't drive stick (I tried learning once, that was fun), so I'm looking for an automatic.
I do about 60% city 40% highway, but I do take long road trips a couple times a year, usually hauling animals (so good A/C is important).
My questions:
1) On a Fit or Matrix, what kind of repairs should I be expecting soon if the car has 60-80K on it already?
2) My family drives cars till they drop, and I want to as well, so is buying a $9000 car with 80K worth it in terms of years I'll be able to drive it?
3) How much more space is there in practical terms between a 08 and a 09 Fit?
4) A lot of cars in my price range are discounted due to accidents on their records. What should I be aware to ask the independent mechanic about these cars if I really like one?
5) I live in FL now so traction isn't a huge issue, but within the car's lifetime I will probably live somewhere with snow again. Is there any difference between how the base Fit and the Fit Sport handle snow?


If you guys can think of anything else to help me, that would be great. I'm just a little stressed trying to find and buy my first car.
Thank you!

 

Any review you get from us will be biased towards the Fit.

1 They keep their value because they are in high demand.

2.They have a very good maintenance record. Look at Consumer Reports that rates them #1.

3. The OEM Dunlop tires are junk but a car with the kind of miles on it you are talking about will have worn out the originals out a long time ago. The originals were good for about 30K miles. I have aset of Yokohama Avid Asend tires on both of ours. They are long wearing, low rolling resistance, good wet traction, OK traction on snow and made in the USA. You are going to get lots of other recommendations on tires and tire sizes.

4. Snow performance is going to be based on the tires you have on it. I would not worry about snow performance until you actually move there. If you do move you can spring for better snow traction tires at that time.

5. A sport or base is oing to give you the same handling characteristics.

6. You need to learn to drive standard trans car. It is no big deal and after a week or two you will not know the difference or even think about what you are driving. If the deal is right buy the stick car. They usually are a little cheaper. Most base models are stick and most sport models are automatic. My daughter wanter a stick in a sport model but when we finally found a good deal on one it was automatic. It is a in what you find.

Rebuilt cars can be an excellent deal or a real basket of snakes. If you know what you are doing then also look at ones with a rebuilt title. Many time they do not advertize they are rebuilt and you do not find out until you get there and actually look at the title. There are several companies on the internet that will do a records check for cheap. Definitely do this before you buy anything used.

Many times an insurance company will total one out with not much damage on it. This happens because the auction prices are very high on Fits so it does not take much to declare one a total. Also stolen undamaged ones sometimes end up at the auction because they were not recovered in time and the insurance company ends up owning them. Insurance company owned equals a salvage vehicle in most states.

If you are looking, get the VIN# and search it on Google. Sometimes you can get pictures of when it was sold at auction and a description of the damages before the damage repairs were done.

I almost flew out to California and drove a "repaired" one back here. The owner screwed up and The People's Republic of California declared it non-rebuildable so the owner could not get a repaired California title. My state said I could get a rebuilt title if it passed our inspection. The original damage (I had pictures) was only minor. So look if you know what you are doing then go for it. If not, then stay away from rebuilt ones.

Private Parties are usually a better source of used cars, Most used car dealers have no clue as to the condition of their vehicles. They have an inventory and they will push whatever they have in stock.

Those are my opinions and biases. Good Luck on your search.

I have owned and driven many Toyotas but I have never owned or driven a Matrix so I have no opinion on them.

 

Having owned both vehicles you mentioned, both generation of Vibes plus now a first generation Fit, I think I can help a bit.
First, let me congratulate you on getting a Previa van to last that long. That may be a record given that vehicle was the worst vehicle Toyota ever built.
As far as used cars are concerned, I think you are looking at two of the better ones. First the Matrix/Vibe. I would steer away from the first generation Matrix/Vibe. While it is an excellent vehicle, it is slow, burns oil like a typical Corolla, and the radios (earlier GM supplied Delco radios) are prone to fail. Moreover, in the case of the Vibe (and perhaps the Matrix), Toyota started removing certain safety options as the years went on (side airbags/anti lock brakes), so it can be a pain to get those options on a first generation model. Many owners don't have a clue whether their car has it or not. However, if you find one at a great price AND you happen to be looking for all wheel drive, there are bargains to be had. My Vibe is the Base model and does not have AWD, but my first generation Vibe was AWD and worked wonderfully. I'm not sure how much future snow you are looking at in your new location, but the AWD system on the Vibe/Matrix is very good (components from the Rav4). So, if you are looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix, I would definitely steer you towards the 2nd generation 2009 model and newer. The 2nd generation car is better in almost every way. You can also get the optional 2.4 liter Camry engine in the 2009-2013 Vibe or Matrix (the Vibe ended with the 2010 model). So either way, you will get all Corolla components in your car with the option to upgrade to a Camry engine and possibly Rav4 AWD components. But again, the 2nd generation is MUCH better than the first. I have owned both.
Now for an interlude between the Vibe/Matrix (2009+) and the first generation Fit (2007-2008), with the winner posted after each section.
Engine: (Corolla): Fit. Bulletproof car. Toyota engines (Corolla) have a history of burning oil, and have had some issues with timing gear, starters, and in the case of the second generation models, have their PCV valve hidden inside/underneath the intake manifold making this routine maintenance item extremely difficult to reach.
Engine: (Camry): Vibe/Matrix. The 2.4 liter engine is outstanding and will give you a LOT more power if so desired. It blows the doors off of a Fit, but it also will eat into your wallet. Don't expect great gas mileage with a Camry engine mated to a Vibe/Matrix.
Transmission: Fit. Again, bulletproof and it is a 5 speed transmission versus the stupid 4 speed Corolla transmission Toyota has stuck to for decades.
Used Car availability: A wash. While it is obvious that there are a lot more Vibes and Matrixes to choose from given they are two car models versus just the Fit model, people are beginning to (wrongly) dump their first generation Fits over the past couple of months. As such, there are quite a few bargains to be had. Find anything under 120,000 miles and get yourself a bargain. You may have to travel quite a distance to find one, but after a 2+ hour drive, I don't regret driving home with my bargain.
Safety: Fit. The first generation Fit comes with standard ABS and side impact air bags. While I had those on my first generation Vibe, again, Toyota began de-contenting the vehicles with the 2004 model and it became a guessing game as to whether your 2004-2008 Vibe/matrix had those safety features. The Fit's brakes are also superior to any Toyota components as well.
Interior Comfort: Vibe/Matrix: again, sticking with the 2nd generation model, the seats, radio, seating position, storage for knick knacks, XM radio, On Star system, all make the Vibe/Matrix a more comfortable experience inside the cabin. However, the rear leg room is far superior in the Fit, and the Fit's storage capability (while not a comfort item) is enhanced with the magic seats.
Visibility: Fit. Hands down, the Fit has much better sight lines

Let me know if there are any other categories you would like compared. In the end, the Fit is a no brainer car. It is bulletproof and you can (like I did) buy one sight unseen and almost guarantee yourself of a quality used car. If you were needing a car to drive long distances, I'd go for a 2nd generation Vibe/Matrix. The Fit is not a highway cruiser and given some comfort issues (lack of telescoping steering wheel, seat comfort), it really is relegated to being a local runabout car. And again, with the Vibe/Matrix, you also have the option of getting a larger Camry engine and/or an all wheel drive model. While I cannot yet attest to the lightweight Fit's capabilities in the snow, I doubt they are good. Anything over light snow will require snow tires.
You have chosen "two" great and very versatile models. I really like my Vibe because I can safely put a bike hitch on it and carry up to 3 adult bikes on the back. I wouldn't do that with a 1.5 liter engine Fit. My Vibe also loves when I go 80 miles per hour on the highway. While not good on gas mileage, the Corolla engine (in my case) is a pretty good cruiser. I also drove home from Sears Outlet with a large 7.0 cubic foot dryer sticking out of my Vibe's hatch the other day.
I wish you luck with your decision. Buying used is smart especially when owners get nervous about needing to get rid of their "high mileage" first generation Fit, or get rid of their Vibe because Pontiac is no longer in business. Both are ridiculous arguments; take advantage of their poor judgment.

 

Thanks a lot for both of your input!
N9cv- yes, I expected a bias. ;-) I have a bias myself towards the fit because the cargo space is more mini-van like just in terms of height, and I like the magic seats. However, I made the mistake of sitting in a matrix first, and after that the fit seats felt awful- and that's coming from a 21 year old minivan with deteriorating seats.
I really appreciated your suggestions BurntZ. I do drive for an hour or more in my car a couple times a month, and I would like to be comfortable doing so. That said, a couple years ago I borrowed my mom's 2011 fit for a week and I don't remember having any issues driving an hour and a half on it. But that was a couple years ago, I don't trust my memory.
There is a 2007 Matrix with 81,000 miles on it a couple hours away from me that (supposedly) has ABS and side airbags. It's been easy to find Matrices, harder to find ones with ABS and the mileage I'm looking for. I actually liked the older ones better in terms of looks and interior, but it's interesting you talk of burning oil. I'll have to look that up.
There are a couple 2008 Fits with mileage under 70,000 for under $9,000 near me. I'm a little skeptical of the price, but one has a clean carfax and the other has one accident. They are both about 3ish hours from me, which makes driving to test one a pain and I'd have to find an independent mechanic to do an inspection just off the internet.
Decisions, decisions.

 

Oh, I do have another question. How common is it to have the AC stop working after a couple hours and need a de-icing before running again? Here in FL, and since I haul animals, a long-distance AC is absolutely necessary. Is it common enough that I should ask if I test drive for a couple hours to see if this particular fit does it?

 

This is false.

Previa > all other vans

I've never had an issue with AC icing. I wouldn't touch a Fit without a manual transmission though.

 

Man, i hate ABS, I'd be all over a car without it. You can save yourself from collisions by screeching your tires if someone cuts you off! With ABS your car will basically slow down very rapidly and you will probably have a mild collision requiring bodywork. I can remember screeching my tires a few times in my old '93 Saturn. Saved myself of a few accidents of people cutting me off or slamming on their brakes in the middle of a main artery.

I find the Matrix and Fit too complete different beasts. I mean you are comparing Honda and Toyota. Toyotas will always be more comfortable IMO unless you look at the Civic which is pretty comfy. The Matrix has horrible body roll, an interior that is about 99% hard plastic, absolutely no visibility for about 180 dergrees behind you. However, the one I drove was a Matrix R that has nearly 200hp I believe and it hauls ass on the higway! Man you go from 100 to about 150 km/h in a split second! The seats are pretty comfy and the cabin is pretty quiet. The matrix is also a compact car and is way larger than the Fit

The Fit on the other hand is a subcompact car, has a noisy cabin, motorcycle engine that likes to be revved, tight steering and rock hard suspension. Some people even get larger tyres because the suspension is so damn hard. It's a driver's car if you ask me.

If you want a comfy car that is good on the highway and has mushy suspension that makes you feel like you're riding a cloud, Matrix. If you want a fun go kart that makes you feel like David Coulthart when you go 'round the block, Fit.

I will say that I think the Matrix is the worse car I have ever driven in winter. Absolutely hate it. It also has a seatbelt chime that makes you want to drive the car off a bridge just to make it stop. They should use that chime to interrogate prisoners at Guantanamo, I bet they would confess right away. I mean, I'm all for buckling up but if ever you need to move the car one block and get out...

The Fit is a good winter driver but does lose traction relatively easily due to its low curb weight. The negative side for me is that my windshield will instantly fog up the moment I shut off the defogger (which uses AC) so I basically have to drive with the defogger on all the time which kills my mpg.

 

I would have to agree with you on the Previa! I still see many of them around, and they stopped making them in 96 (I have heard reports of 97s though).

Mike, manual for the driving performance or something else?

 

1.) ABS is a great thing for the average driver. Locking up the brakes/tires lengthens your stopping distance considerably.

2.) I fixed your second paragraph, although not sure I'd want to feel like Coulthard of all the great names available haha.

@OP: Manual because of MUCH improved gas mileage, also less to go wrong. The one auto 2008 I've driven, did not feel 'solid' at all, whereas my manual 2008 still drives like the day I bought it.

 

This is false.

Previa > all other vans

Good information Mike. Thanks for taking the time

OtterKin: if you need to find a mechanic while out of town, here's what I recommend. First, go to the NPR Car Talk website and scroll to near the bottom. The bottom right box will guide you to all the well rated mechanics in the area you are looking at a used car. After you have that list, open up a second window and go to repairpal.com
That site will also allow you to find mechanics in any area, but with repair pal, they interview car owners after work has been done to determine if their on line ratings are justified and need to be upgraded or downgraded. If I saw the same repair shop on both sites, I'd be pretty comfortable that it is OK to do business there.

 

There's a lot of good advice here but that isn't one of them. Private sellers will lie to private buyers more than to dealers ! If a dealer won't take the car on trade watch out; they are better buyers than the average buyer. Only buy from private parties if you or someone else is a knowledgeable mechainic who can realistically appraise a vehicle. More than once we've had to revitalize a buyer's car that wasn't as verbally advertised because they had no recourcse.
If you have to go it alone at least have some warranty period in your sales contract even if its just the trip home.
good luck.

 

I like my fit, but MPG is not one of it's strong points. I got the same mileage (about 28 mpg mixed) from my 2001 Subaru 2.5rs.

 

How? 10char.

 

10char? I'm guessing it's because I have a Base AUTO Fit?

 

This site requires each post to be at least 10 characters.

Base isn't your issue, the auto definitely is.

You can't say all Fits aren't great on gas, just the autos.

 

That may be, but my only experience is with the AUTO. I guess I should of put an *.

 

I get about 20 mpg in the city on MT. Then again, I'm always doing very short 4-5 mile trips. I'm gonna keep trying to troubleshoot but this is ridiculous. I'm also driving granny style now to see if it helps.

I disagree about your claim that locking the tires decrease your stopping length. In certain situations (on snow for example) looking your wheels and having them plow into snow can help. I use the handbrake when my ABS goes nuts and my car stops much faster.

 

You can still easily lock your brakes in the snow. That said, I'm talking regular real world driving, I also doubt that locking tires speeds stopping, even in snow.

 

I don't think I can! I have ABS. My first winter, I would press the brakes until my back dug into my seat, it just doesn't stop as fast. Same thing happened in my first car accident (which happened in my Fit) , stomped on the brakes, slowed down very rapidly but got no tire squeal.

I found this on Transport Canada (canadian transportation agency) under the antilock brakes and "is the stopping distance shorter with ABS":

"You should allow for a longer stopping distance with ABS than for conventional brakes when driving on gravel, slush, and snow. This is because the rotating tire will stay on top of this low traction road surface covering, and effectively "float" on this boundary layer.

A non ABS braked vehicle can lock its tires and create a snow plow effect in front of the tires which helps slow the vehicle. These locked tires can often find more traction below this boundary layer."

Source: What you should know about ... Anti-lock Braking System: How do I use ABS? - Transport Canada

Like I said, I believe that ABS is designed to prevent someone from loosing control if they attempt to brake and steer. If someone doesn't use threshold braking and slams on the brakes and turns the wheel, the car's inertia will simply keep it moving forward. Since ABS periodically relieves the brakes, traction that is dedicated to braking will be made available for steering so the driver can benefit from braking AND some directional control, instead of simply moving forward due to inertia. This is my theory, I'm not an automotive engineer and I can't read the minds of the people that designed ABS but I know that slippery conditions tend to make ABS over react and extends stopping distances. This problem is compounded further with tread wear.

 

Almost any car will freeze up the evaporator is the refrigerant is low and the outside humidity is high. This is NOT a Honda Fit issue. I have never had to fix this problem on a FIT. I have seen it many times on various other vehicles. I have it right now on one of my Blazers. It is such a minor issue that I never got around to adding R-134. All you do if it happens is keep driving with the blower on and turn off the AC. You will still have cool air while the ice melts off. When it starts blowing warmer air (less than 5 minutes) turn on the AC again. Running on recirculate reduces the amount of moisture available and delays freezing . You can always fix the problem by adding a little R-134 refrigerant.

This is not an issue on a Honda Fit any more than any other car.