So I am getting ready to overhaul my Fit Sport I got in September. Already have 13K miles on it, so I am in it a lot. I love audio and have a great sound system in my house (Yamaha receiver, Paradigm speaks and sub except for the center which is Tannoy). What I love about that setup and what I hope to get in my car is a clean sound with depth. I don't want a booming sub that rattles the mirrors. i want accurate reproduction of sound without any one frequency over powering others.

With that said, I am new to car audio and have been reading around fit freak a bunch trying to absorb as much as possible. I am planning on replacing the HU (probably Pioneer double din). I don't NEED blue tooth, GPS, or DVD functions but I am also not against it. I would like it to be iPod capable through the back of the HU, and the better the iPod interface the beter. I plan on having one sub and amp (definitely not two). I saw this thread and thought this might be a good way to go because I use all functions of the magic seats regularly.
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-...ox-design.html
Not a huge fan of having the amp in there with the spare (if I ever do blow a tire I wouldn't need another thing to do). Is there another place to put it that would be out of the way. Maybe behind a pannel? Next, I assume I should replace the speakers including the tweeter. Finally, I also plan on doing a full sound deadening job including floors, fire walls, doors, wheel well, hood, etc. I plan on going through this website that had a bunch of info.
Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information

I am debating whether to do it myself or have someone else do it. I am going to have to save up to do all this, and I assume it would be best to do it in one faul swoop.

So my questions:
What components do you recommend? I know at a certain point paying more only gives you minor improvements. So value is important, but I do want quality.

Next how much do you think this will cost me at the end of the day?

And how long do you think it would take to install (not including the building of a sub enclosure)? Bare in mind I have never installed car stereos, but am not afraid to learn, and also not against paying someone else if it is really worth it.

Thanks!

 

Alright, know right away it is going to be very difficult to get a vehicle to sound like a dedicated home theater room. Cars are naturally a very poor audio environment. There are going to be reflection trouble spots and time alignment will be an issue due to the uneven seating. Are you wanting to upgrade all four main speaker locations? Many true sound quality cars only run a front stage. So unless you have rear passengers in the car frequently, you can save some money by only upgrading the front stage and removing the rear door speakers.

The setup you are describing is what is referred to as "flat" it basically means a ruler even frequency response. To obtain this you are going to have to spend a very large amount of money and do a lot of fabrication. The good news is, in many opinions (mine included) flat frequency response sounds terrible. It gives the music no soul and makes you feel like you are listening through a wall.

Next, careful what information you gather from Sound Deadener Showdown. A lot of their reviews are out of date as most of those manufacturers update their products very frequently. If you want me to save you some time I would recommend RAAMAudio for the BXT (butyl-based mat) and their Ensolite (Closed Cell Foam) Also, pick up a can or two of the adhesive he sells. It is a great adhesive for the Ensolite and works a ton better than any other aerosol adhesive I have used.

Lastly if you are trying to keep a budget know that not everything needs a ton of sound dampening. Areas like the floor are naturally very rigid. As such something like a mass loading mat would not help you much there. On most vehicles the weakest points for resonance are usually the outside door skins and the roof.

If you are seeking true sound quality for a component system, look to Focal, Morel, DynAudio. However, be prepared to spend a decent chunk of change. Also if budget is in mind you need to do the install yourself. Shop labor tends to be a little bit of a budget killer.

My strong recommendation is you come up with a budget you are comfortable with and we can guide you from there. It is kind of one of those things where I and another person could tell you two builds. One will cost $900 total, the other will cost $6,000. So a starting point from you will be best. Try to give a comfort range for price and an absolute max.

 

I definitely hear you on the sound reflection front. As for number of speakers, I was planning on having rears but probably not spending as much on those as I will fade the sound mostly to the front when I don't have people in the back.

I'm not quite looking for flat as I am wanting to avoid the boomy flabby sound so many people seem to want now a days. rather I am looking for a sound that envelops a person, the lows are low enough to feel but not so much that they shake or annoy other motorists, and highs that aren't shrill, tinny, or harsh. I certainly want the soul, as you say, of the music to come through. how do you recommend achieving this. I listen to a wide variety of music from indie rock to Aerosmith to Glitch Mob to Mumford and Sons. I generally use Peter Gabriel's "Up" album to gauge the quality of a system as the recording is amazingly produced.

The RAAMAt definitely sounds good. As far as sound deadening goes, I am under the impression that you only need to cover 25% of a panel with something like RAAMmat to dampen vibration but the more you can cover with the mass load vinyl the more you will block out sound from the outside as well as contain sound inside the car. Is that right? The RAAMmat products seem to be more in line with sound dampening rather than sound deadening. In other words preventing vibration rather than keeping sound from leaving or coming in. Am I being unreasonable in want to get sound deadening? I realize this might be the most expensive part, but it also seems like one of the biggest factors in improving sound.

As far as budget is concerned, I was wondering where people would recommend spending money, and where not too. you certainly pointed out some areas with the sound dampening. I was thinking probably around $2,000 with an 8" or 10" sub. But I have a feeling that with sound dampening and deadening that might be a bit low. Would $3,000 be more practical. I think i will install it myself. Obviously the cheaper the better, but I still want good quality, but it doesn't have to be absolute top of the line. Comfortable price rang would be $2,000 or lower, and absolute highest would be $3,000.

Thanks again.

 

contact circa40

he'll be able to guide you. he competes and has done a build on his GE, so he can point you in the proper direction and what not

 

$3,000 will get a very nice SQ oriented setup. In my honest opinion "sound deadening" is a very subjective term as you can really only dampen sound. Mass loaded vinyl and butyl products are often used for the same purpose which is as a mass loading product. Either way by making a panel heavier you are going to lower its natural resonance and reduce its vibrations.

You will need to utilize a few different types of dampening in order to get the full effect. A mass loading item as well as a closed cell foam will both need to be utilized in order to dampen the majority of outside sound frequencies. This will, as a by-product lower the amount of noise other motorists hear as well. Eventually with dampening your glass & seals will become the weak point which there is little you can do about in a daily driven vehicle.

As far as coverage, this varies wildly with your goals. 25% makes a noticeable difference in most panels. I usually use the method of knocking on a panel and listening for resonance. I dampen areas until I no longer hear that resonance.

Do you know if you want to utilize active or passive crossovers?

 

Honestly, I don't even know what active and passive crossover is. Basically learning as I go and reading up on what ever info I can find. Recommendations are definitely welcome though.

 

Audio crossover - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a lot of reading but a good start to learning about crossovers.

I would say at your level to get a 2-Way component set for the front with passive crossovers. This will be the simplest and closest to plug and play setup you can start with besides a co-ax setup.

However, read into crossovers a little bit and see what your opinion is. Nothing wrong with either setup. I have made great setups using both.

 

Active sounds like I will be able to fine tune the sound a bit easier. Am I correct in understanding that each woofer and tweeter would need its own dedicated amp, or would it be possible to do one amp for driver side speakers, one for passenger side, and one for a sub?

 

Each would need its own channel, not neccesarily its own amplifier. With a 4 channel amplifier you could run 2 tweeters and 2 mid-bass drivers.

With a 5 channel you could run a front stage 2-way and a sub-stage.

Active crossovers will allow you to change their crossover frequencies and the rolloff of the drivers. This does allow for fine tuning as well as for a bit more headache.

 

Haha. I always seem to strive for more control... but I know what you mean by it causing a headache.

 

If you want to go active you are basically going to have to go front stage only. If you want to run rear drivers you will need to go passive. So here is your first crossroad.

 

Just threw this together as an example.

Alpine CDA-117 $250
RF T400-4 $270
RF T500-1BD $240
Wiring $200
JBL C608GTI MKII $225
JBL P662 $75
Sundown SA8 $135
Box if you build yourself $50
Sound deadening $300-$400 depending on brand
Install Kit/Harness $30

$1875 before tax and shipping, all online purchases. The C608GTIs are what I run and they are very very nice, because they are older they are only available on ebay. If you want a double din deck then you can safely budget another $250 for a good one not some off-the-wall brand. So $3000 is probably easily doable for a very nice sounding system. I chose the RF amps because they have a very small footprint and would make installation easier. Sub is very capable of doing some bass for you, if you want larger the 10" is $179. You don't have to spend a fortune to get good sound, but you can't expect $1000 for everything to be amazing, you can find good deals out there but for the most part you get what you pay for.

 

Funkster, could I simply put coaxials in the back, or would it make sense to put actives in that back as well. Why I ask is because when I have been in cars that don't have the back speakers (and there is a back seat) it usually feels as if something is missing, while with back speakers it fills in the sound and helps to create that envoloping sound. So, any way to have active fronts and some kind of rears?

Fit4Spl, thanks for showing me your setup. I do plan on building my own enclosure, but want as small a footprint as possible, thats why I was planning on an 8 inch. Any advice on keeping it small would be great. Also, how did you choose your speaker/sub pairings. I find myself hesitant as speakers can take on so many different types of sounds (i.e. warm, tinny, harsh, boomy, etc.).

 

You can certainly run coax in the rear however if you do active front stage, rear coaxials and a sub-stage you are going to need a 7 channel amplifier.

I would say just go passive in the front. Then you can run front, rear and sub-stage all off of a 5 channel amplifier. You can do plenty of fine tuning with time alignment and equalizers. A good component setup is going to have a pretty decent crossover in it for the drivers in use anyway.

 

That's just something I came up with, I am running a RF T400-2 to my components, JBL C608GTI MKII's. I have a JBL GTO1200.1 II running to a Sundown SA12 in a custom ported box I built. My headunit is a CDA-9835 2004 model but one of the best made by Alpine in the past 10 years. I have listened to, judged and installed many different brands of speakers, from Focal to your average everyday alpine coaxial. The JBLs give a very nice sound, and the mid is very capable of putting out midbass like a champ.

My best recommendation on the mids/highs is to make a Test Disc with music you listen to a lot and like. Take it to a audio shop that carries several brands and audition those speakers, you will see at least at a glance what you like and don't like. It will sound different in the car, but the "warm/tinny/harsh" will not change.

 

Fit4Spl, how much sound deadening did you do.

So, right now I need to go to a shop and listen to some speakers (probably passive) and subs. How about head unit and amps? What should I be looking for? I am assuming one dedicated amp for the sub and one for the speakers? Do they make dedicated equalizers or are those generally built in to the head unit? The ones built in to the HUs I've seen never seemed to be that great.

 

Headunits are generally nowadays personal brand preference, I prefer Alpine they have always lasted me a long time, hence my 2004 model in my car. And they pack the top end units with features, the CDA-117 I recommended has plenty for you feature wise including a EQ. The days of external EQs are over, they are now all done internally on headunits and Crossovers are built into amps now as well so no external crossovers are necessary. I personally do not like doing a 5channel amp for a total system, however I have built them and they do sound good but just not as good to me as separate amps. Subs again, as long as you are not buying "walmart" brand are mostly brand preference, I prefer sundown because you get a LOT of sub for low cost and the support from them is stellar.

As for deadening I have only done my floor, being unemployed has put a damper on doing the rest, the front doors and the hatch, possibly the roof. I would at least do the doors in your case, anything else would just be overkill or just to lower road noise which you can do easier by getting different tires, the factory ones are very hard and I will be going to a wider softer tire.

 

IMO, get a nice headunit, amp, and components for the fronts and sound deaden the front door tight and solid and also your trunk and you are good to go.

 

Ok, so i am thinking I will probably go with this reciever: Pioneer AVH-P4300DVD DVD receiver - Hands-on Research at Crutchfield.com

With the amps, a 2 channel for the one sub and a 4 channel for the components?

 

Depending on the subwoofers power requirement. However, I would think any decent 2 channel amplifier bridged would run the kind of subwoofer you will be looking to use.