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My vehicle is 2009 honda fit sport 5dr suzuka. I bought the car with 90k and has just over 100k now. I have a teeny bit of a rough idle and ive hit the vtec a couple times yo. Honestly im mechanically inclined and all this looks straight forward. I havent set valve lash since i worked on a datsun 10 years ago though. This thread is mainly for anyone to give me any pointers or any other advice. Ive already looked at a couple how to videos, seems straightforward. Im going to take the time to give the front end a little tune up. I do have a couple questions though.
You all dont have issues using fel pro gaskets right? The honda ones are better if not cheaper but man the shipping time...
At the very least i want the valve cover gasket but do you guys do the upper plenum gasket as well right? TB gasket?
Other than that im going to be doing plugs (no coils), air filter, maf, tb clean and pcv valve.
When it comes to lash adjustment does everyone just tend to stay in the middle of the two spectrums?
Do you guys set the intake tighter clearance, exhaust towards looser clearance?
The ngks come pregapped to .052, what do you guys set this to?
Reference part no.s
Honda plenum to valve cover gasket 171115-RB0-007 (sold by 1)
-FEL-PRO MS97178 sold by 4 pack
Honda valve cover gasket 12341-RE2-E01
-FEL-PRO VS50785R
Honda PCV valve assembly 7130-PND-A01
-Are aftermarket ones shitty?
Honda [OEM] NGK plugs IZFR6K13 NGK LASER IRIDIUM #6774
-Sticking with OEM, local pricing is $14-15 each yikes. Ebay is showing up 20 bucks for all 4 but seems sus. Rockauto has em 8 a piece but wont ship til next week.
I've had ours apart 5 times now and not replaced a single gasket. The OEM valve cover and upper to lower intake gaskets are re-usable. No reason to split apart any other connections. Remove from the airbox all the way to the upper/lower intake as one piece.
The only thing you will need is a dab of gray import silicone sealant for the valve cover.
Unless there's something wrong with yours, I wouldn't bother replacing the PCV assembly or cleaning it. No reason to cause a problem where one doesn't exist.
I shoot for the middle of the accepted range for the valve clearance.
.052" is more gap than I like. The lower the gap, the better these cars seem to run and the longer the coils last. I gap ours at .040".
Do not buy spark plugs from eBay. Lots of reports of receiving fakes. Rock Auto is a great choice. I run Denso IK22's for a small boost in performance, but OEM are fine.
Any thoughts on Denso Spark Plug (SKJ20DR-M13) ?
Seems like its an equivalent of the Ngk. but cheaper and more readily available if i wanted to do it by this friday. I dont know if the plugs have ever been serviced in my car.
Denso or NGK iridium work equally well. No issues with either.
I'm glad, for your sake, that you are changing them. My good buddie's GE ejected a factory plug at around 100k miles. That had us removing the head and having it repaired at a machine shop. Not the way you want to change the plugs. Better to catch them earlier. Plug ejection is a very common issue for GD and GE Fit's.
I use a small dab of anti-seize and just turn them till they stop. Once the metal gasket flattens, they basically just come to a stop. I've changed so many plugs on so many cars that I honestly don't use a torque wrench. Not that I shouldn't, I just don't. I think the factory service manual calls for something like 13 in/lbs. That is way too light in my opinion.
As for the anti-seize, I use a small dab because you are connecting two different types of metal. Pretty much everyone on this forum and others will tell you to not use anti-seize. Once again, I've always used it and never had a problem, so I will keep with my old habits. I believe NGK even says to not use anti-seize. I have no proof of this, but I'm guessing that many use too much so the plug makers now recommend against using any. It really only takes a small dab.
If you want to keep falling down the rabbit/marketing whole, research using one heat range colder plugs. Jackson Racing found a few extra horsepower by using the IK22's. We've been running them since 2008 without an issue.
Yep i was planning on just running 1 small dab on one side, not completely covering all of the surface of thread. Ive been looking at torque specs and same thing anywhere from 13-20lbs seems acceptable although 20lbs was with anti seize instructed. Ill know its good by feeling it.
Im starting to look at the ik22 threads and will trust your judgement since youve been talking about plugs here for the better part of a decade. I do not doubt the IK22s will give a slight performance boost. So far from what i have looked at the iridium TTs have similiar specs as those who have ran ik22s vs OEM. Ive made a little comparison below of the main differences between the two plugs. Is the IK20TT a newer product? It seems to have a colder heat range than oem, but still slightly warmer than the ik22. I dont see much discussion about them. I am located in Arizona so with months of 100 degree days so i dont know if that is going to make a difference. If anything ill do the oems but who doesnt want a little more bang for their buck.
[OEM]
NGK 6774 IZFR6K13 Laser Iridium Plug $13.99
Denso 3401 SKJ20DR-M13 Iridium Long Life $12.99
[Performance] Denso Iridium TT (IK20TT) $8.99 --------- Denso 5310 IK22 Iridium Power $9.19
Ground Configuration Twin-Tip ------------ Ground Configuration Standard
Ground Electrode Material Platinum ------- Ground Electrode Material Copper
Manufacturer Heat Range 20 -------------- Manufacturer Heat Range 22
Longetivity 100k Miles ---------------------- Longetivity 30k Miles
Wanted to chime in for two things. I checked those top end gaskets, valve cover, tb and such.
After viewing aftermarket offerings online I came to the conclusion that the stock ones appear more robust.
also allow for multiple disassemblies. The ones on my 12 have yet to deform (flatten). New valve cover gasket from honda set me back 50 bucks! I just figured after three or four adjustments, cleaning off the old silicone with alcohol and reapplying, i'd give myself a break and replace it once.
As for the plugs, the story behind the ik22s was that the power they provide is the result of their resolving a hotspot. I can't vouch for it, it came from kraftwerks i believe, relayed by superstreet (then import tuner magazine). It was a geometry issue according to them, so they wanted the shape of the ik22.
Well ive emailed denso about the ik20tt. The only concern now is what to set the plug gap to. These come with .039 gap and the oem gap calls for .047 to .051. These are not stock plugs though. Ill see what they say.
Well ive emailed denso about the ik20tt. The only concern now is what to set the plug gap to. These come with .039 gap and the oem gap calls for .047 to .051. These are not stock plugs though. Ill see what they say.
.039 gap is perfect for a better running vehicle. The factory gap is too large in my opinion and is partially what leads to coil failure.
I agree with everything that GAFIT and Pyts have said. You can trust them. They are two of our most knowledgeable forum members. (Sneefy's good, too, if you can catch him when he hasn't been drinking. )
Personally, I prefer:
— OEM parts.
— I do replace the valve cover gasket.
— I do change out the plugs with OEM spec plugs. I've used DENSO and NGK. Both excellent.
— I do use anti-seize. (@GAFIT: I think I read that NGK website, too. Different metals or same metal? )
Originally Posted by GAFIT
Remove from the airbox all the way to the upper/lower intake as one piece.
I, too, got everything off in one piece. Didn't even have to remove the battery.
Originally Posted by GAFIT
I use a small dab of anti-seize and just turn them till they stop. Once the metal gasket flattens, they basically just come to a stop. I've changed so many plugs on so many cars that I honestly don't use a torque wrench. Not that I shouldn't, I just don't. I think the factory service manual calls for something like 13 in/lbs. That is way too light in my opinion.
I do this, too. It's a "crush washer." Crush that baby and you're done.
As for amount of lash: When I was running a GSX-R engine in my motorcycle, we liked to set the valves on the loose side. I think I set my '93 Toyota Tercel loose, too. But when I adjusted my Fit valves on the loose side, it was just too noisy, so I set them back a bit. I advise you to set your valves within the factory spec. Chances are the next time you do a tune-up, the valves will require less adjustment than this time, which is normal.
That is the gap I've been running for 12 years successfully. This may sound like a ridiculous proud statement, but our Fit dyno'd 98whp stock with almost 200k miles on the clock. That was with IK22's and religious maintenance since new.
So I just finished up. Total time was about 5 hours. I think I misread your guys' posts about taking the manifold as one piece. I spent about 20 or so minutes fiddling with two 3/8 coolant hoses trying to plop them off the manifold so I wouldn't compromise the tb to manifold seal. Once I started the adjustment I found out it too cumbersome to use flat feeler gauges. They would constantly bind up against the edge of the head. I drove down to AutoZone and o'reilly's and wasted another half hour only to come home and just put a bend on the ones I had.
I figured it was easier to do with 3 hands instead of two so I called my dad over n it was smooth sailing from there. I reused all the gaskets so let's hope I don't develop an oil leak at the valve cover. I took the time to clean the tb and maf. The valves didn't seem excessively out of tolerance and I don't know if I can really hear a difference in noise. From the brief start I do feel a noticeably smoother idle but I don't know if it's attributed to the valve job or the plugs or combination of everything. I do still need to do an oil change as I'm at around 50% life. I have yet to take it on a test drive. I'm dirty n tired and I just want to sleep.
Atleast now I know now the valves and plugs had a 100k mi service. This is what came out of the car and the new ones I put in. Plug no1 seemed a little bit looser than snug. Plugs 234 were just snug.
Nice! Good to have that behind you for another 90k miles or so. I should have mentioned to definitely have your battery disconnected during the adjustment. Maybe it's my imagination, but it seems our car picks up a fair bit of power after the adjustment, but I think that it's necessary for the ECU to relearn air flow after the adjustment.
Bent feeler gauges are pretty much mandatory. Or, doing what you did and bend a set.
Key for no leaks is to remove that old dab of gray sealant and apply new sealant. I've been using the same tube since 2010.
Happy motoring! Your next adjustment will take a fraction of the time.
Yeah so I didn't unplug my battery because I didn't want to reset the readiness monitors and stuff. I took extra care not to ground anything but ended up with 5 codes. Got scared for a sec but then realized the ignition had to be on accesory power because I couldn't pull the keys out with trans in N. Reset codes n they stayed off.
As far as performance goes. I do feel a little difference in the way the car pulls. Like it will pull a little more speed while not downshifting to do it, RPMs seems to stay at lower levels while doing so. Maybe I'm being optimistic. I'll see what difference it makes with my mpgs but overall the car doesn't feel as sloppy as before. Thank you guys for the help/advice.
Good job. Those coolant hoses can be a monumental pain. So, too, the male-female electrical fittings. Simple things that are sometimes hard to do. The whole feeler gauge thing is, to my way of thinking, a crude technology. I had to do my valve adjustment three times before I convinced myself that it was right. Also, I was out of practice.
With all due respect to my colleague GAFIT, don't expect big changes in performance. You said yourself that the valves weren't that far out of adjustment, and even if they were, a valve adjustment doesn't turn a Fit into a Ferrari.
I have another adjustment coming up in 50k mi. I could use some help. Can I have your dad's cell phone number?
With all due respect to my colleague GAFIT, don't expect big changes in performance. You said yourself that the valves weren't that far out of adjustment, and even if they were, a valve adjustment doesn't turn a Fit into a Ferrari.
How very true! I think my point of reference as a GD owner is different from GE owners. Our valvetrain is quite a bit different and mine have been a fair bit out of spec each time.
When I did the adjustment on my Mom's 2011 Fit at around 90k, they were barely out of spec and I noticed very little change after doing her adjustment and new plugs.
10-21-2020, 04:25 AM
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