I have a 2008 FIT Sport standard transmission with 117K miles. It's always gotten 36-38 mpg in the city and up to 41 hwy and ran like a champ.
In October 2018, the dealer did a B14 service and it began running like crap and has ever since. It was a dramatic change.
Mileage dropped to 27-31 mpg, even on the hwy, and it would hesitate on take off and wasn't as peppy.
Don't judge but I've taken it back to the dealer multiple times and they could not find the issue despite having me try fuel cleaners, different gas and new spark plugs.
I finally left it for a couple days and asked the head mechanic to look at it.
He discovered that the crankshaft position sensor had been set to "unlearned" and put it back in the right position.
It made things better but the mileage was still bad, there was still some hesitation and it still ran a bit rough.
I took it back yet again and now they tell me I have carbon build up on the valves and it's going to cost $600 to fix it.
Like I said, no judgement please - hindsight is 20/20 - I should have taken it somewhere else.
Anyway, bottom line, can the crankshaft sensor being off for 2 years cause carbon build up?
The dealer said they don't often see FITS with carbon build up on the valves.
So I'm wondering if the sensor being off caused this?
I'm thinking they should pay for this since they messed the sensor up back in 2018 when they did the B14 service.
But I can't find info on this and have nothing to substantiate that these two issues are related.
I'm due to take the FIT in for the valve service in a couple of weeks and I'm prepared to push back on paying for this if it could be related to their mess up.
Can any one help give me insight or guidance?

 

2nd gen Fits do not get carbon buildup on valves. That happens to direct injected 3rd gens. So I don't think your car has carbon on the valves.

I'd suggest getting a 2nd opinion.

 

This is what I was thinking. Carbon build-up is associated with direct injection engines. GE cars don't have direct injection. If you had any carbon build-up at all on a GE engine, I'd recommend trying a cleaner like Techron or just ringing the car out a bit.

Also, they might have screwed up something other than the crankshaft sensor.

 

Thank you, guys.
You may be right and I'll give this some serious thought.
I wanted the dealer to fix this at their cost - not mine. But I also want my FIT back to the way it was.
Can you tell me what kind of injection system the 2008, standard FIT sport has? I've tried to find info but no luck but I'm also not very versed in how engines work.
Assuming for the moment the valves do have carbon build up, is there any thing that could have caused this?
Or as hotkey said, is it pretty much impossible?
And if the carbon build up theory is wrong, are there any other things that could cause the symptoms I've described - hesitation, poor gas mileage, lack of pep.
As I said we've tried new plugs, different fuel, injection cleaners and I've had it checked over multiple times - the last time with the head mechanic.
Again, I really appreciate your help.

 

First of all, you're probably posting in the wrong section. A 2008 US model Fit is a GD not a GE.

Secondly, as stated above, the GD or GE Fit's do not have carbon build up issues in general. The fuel injection system is called "port injection" and it's the best as far as reliability.

I know you said it had the "B14" service, but did it specifically have a valve adjustment? If it didn't, that is what it needs. If it did, they probably didn't get the valves set properly and it needs one again.

 

Take the money out of the equation for a moment. Why go back to an incompetent service provider and expect that they will "fix" it? Do you believe that they learned how not to be incompetent in the last few days?

Agree with my distinguished colleague GAFIT. Either you or a qualified mechanic are going to have to sort this out by a careful process of elimination. Which is what every good mechanic does. Generally speaking, GD and GE engines don't produce carbon buildup problems. A bad sensor should be easy to diagnose because it would produce a code (Am I correct about that, GAFIT?).

 

"Distinguished?" You must have me confused with someone else. LOL

You are correct. If the crank sensor was even a little bit off, there would be a code. For that matter, if there is enough carbon build up to cause an issue, there would likely be misfire codes.

I'm sticking with my guess that they either didn't perform a valve adjustment or didn't do it correctly.

 

You guys are way more knowledgeable than me, which is why I joined FF to get more advanced advice and guidance. So please bear with me as I am learning as I go.
To GAFIT's point, I apologize if I'm not in the right section for my generation - when I joined, I knew there were different areas to post based on my year but not how to get there. I thought the info I filled out on my car would put me in the right spot.
so should I move this thread to the GD section and if so how?

Second, the valves were not touched at the B14 service.
I have the original maintenance service sheet from the date the issue started and there was no mention of the valves being adjusted or checked
But at some point in this grueling process, I do think they checked the adjustment on the valves after this issue started but said the valves didn't need adjustment.

And there were never any misfires codes re the crankshaft sensor being off.

I think that is why it took so long for them to diagnose the issue of the carbon build up - if indeed it is the issue - which now I question since the consensus is that GD FITs don't get that issue.

In MHO, I think you all are very distinguished in your knowledge and you've given me some solid advice and direction for which I am very grateful.

I agree with MC and hotkey that it's time to go elsewhere - in hindsight I feel like a fool and should have done this a long time ago. I just wanted to believe that this was a puzzler and they'd get to the bottom of it. And I've been going there since I got the car, working with the same service rep, and felt like I could trust them.

But MC was right - I'm thinking that their competency leaves something to be desired. After all the symptoms and time they've had to get to the root cause, if the mechanics were logical and methodical in evaluating the problem this should have been fixed a long time ago. Again, hindsight is 20/20 - one hopes.

SO, I'm going to line up a second opinion, demand the top mechanic to look at it, gather all my related service records since the date this all went south, do my homework on first generation Honda engines and their injection systems so I can talk intelligently and hope I get someone who knows what the heck they're doing.

Is there anything else that you guys can think of I should have checked or anything else I should do?

 

To add to your knowledge bank...valve adjustments per the maintenance minder are to be performed about every 60k miles on the GD Fit. Our 197k mile Fit has now had the code pop up 3 times.

Each time I have checked the valves they have been out of spec. Last time it was by a fair amount. My point to this is that, if your valves have not been truly adjusted, they would be considerably out of spec.

Also, there is really no such thing as "checking" the valve lash. To "check" the valves, you have to remove the valve cover and manually rotate the motor to each cylinder and use feeler gauges to check the clearance on each of the 4 valves for each cylinder. At that point, any shop is charging you for an actual valve adjustment.

Poor/idiot mechanics and shops think you can "check" the valve lash by listening to the motor while it runs. This is zero help as the exhaust valves in our L15 motors lose clearance over time. Valves with too little of clearance make zero sound, but are even more of an issue than loose valves. Tight valves lead to burned exhaust seats, worn valve guides, etc.

I suspect they are blaming carbon deposits when the real issue is that it needs a valve adjustment and, possibly, new valve seals due to them not performing the correct services over the life of the vehicle.

 

Thanks, GAFIT.
I really think you're on to something.
At the B14 service, which according to the maintenance minder codes indicates that the valves should be checked, there is nothing on the sheet indicating they did this.
Yet something happened because immediately, the car started to display the problems.

So what ever happened, I'm thinking it did involve the valves and for some reason - maybe incompetence or they were covering their butts and didn't want to admit that they screwed something up - they had me go down a rabbit hole of trying dumb ass remedies for the past 2 + years!
God, it hurts to even say that I've put up with this BS for two years.

And in hindsight, I always took the car in on a Saturday and the same mechanic has usually worked on it.
And I always worked with the same service rep.

It wasn't until I got a different service rep when the original one was out for months that he suggested I have the head mechanic take a look.
And it wasn't until I dropped the car off during the week and picked it up the next day that the chief mechanic looked at it and diagnosed the "unlearned" crankshaft issue and supposedly fixed it. Which didn't.
Which, BTW, how the heck does the Crankshaft sensor get set back to unlearned all by itself?

And the chief mechanic is the same one who now says it's carbon build up on the valves.

So, going into conspiracy theory territory, I'm thinking that the Saturday mechanic is a bone head and messed something originally.
And the service rep may now be a bone head too for not pushing hard enough to get to the root of the problem or suggest someone else look at it.

And because of these mess ups, and along with probable incompetence, they're now trying to say it's carbon build up which totally takes them off the hook for the problem.

But the hole in this theory is that the chief mechanic found that the CS was set to unlearned so either he was lying or it really was and he didn't look any further for a problem. In which case, he may be incompetent too.

This is making my head spin.

So I'm thinking I should still take it somewhere else. But if they do diagnose it as the valves do I let them fix it or take it back to the boneheads?
Never mind, the minute I wrote that I slapped myself.

Thoughts?

 

You have more than enough "thoughts" going on already. Just find a good mechanic -that's the hard part- and go from there.

 

Good point.

Calling All Freakers: Is there anybody in the Rochester area that can recommend a good mechanic or two for LittleOne? Let's help this guy out.

 

Thank you all for your help and suggestions.
And yeah, I do think about and analyze everything in great detail........
There are 3 dealers in the Rochester area so I contacted the one with the current best service rating.
I did my homework and I realize that GAFIT was right about the "port injection" system not lending itself to having carbon build up on the valves.
I spoke to the Service Mgr. for about a half hour explaining the issue and history and I have an apt this week, 4/19, to drop the FIT off for a second opinion.
He agreed that you rarely see carbon build up on the valves for this vehicle.
Not sure what will happen but thanks to you guys at least I'm a bit better educated about fuel injection systems and hopefully will be better able to spot any further BS.
I'll keep you posted as to what happens.
Thanks so much for your help!