I have a 1.2 from 2009 which is pinking under load. The symptoms are just like a car from bygones age when the condenser has failed - it will not pull, just loads of pinking, but if I ease my foot off the pedal the pinking stops and it will gradually pull away.

There are so many possible causes - I have cleaned the EGR valve and will replace the spark plugs, but has anyone got any ideas specific to the Fit/Jazz? I may have to begin replacing sensors and coils in the hope that I find the cause, but it would be good to have a clue.

 

I'm not well schooled in this sort of thing, but might the valves need adjustment? If they were to close too early, compression would happen to soon and cause knock. Perhaps too the piston tops are crudded up with carbon, which could also cause knock by increasing compression.

I'm uncertain about the 1.2L, but the 1.5L requires valves to be checked at 100K Miles I think.

 

Ping. Or spark knock or rattle......

Running very lean could cause those symptoms....When did this problem begin?

Check if trash or a small bug got caught in the MAF sensor? (assuming it uses one)

 

It has been pinking since I bought it with 50000 miles on the clock, but I thought for a long time that it was an exhaust rattle; it was only last week whilst on holiday in a very hilly part of the country that I've managed to positively identify it as pinking. All I know is that when it pinks, it loses power.

Could be a sensor, could be low fuel pressure, apparently a blocked cat will cause it, but where to start? I doubt that the valves would need adjustment at 56000, but who knows? Likewise, it should not be carboned up at this mileage but......It uses zero oil, so it is not due to fuel contamination.

 

The engine loses power when it pings, because the knock sensor retards the timing to prevent piston damage.
See if the problem goes away after you've changed the spark plugs. If not, pour a can of Seafoam into the gas tank. It dissolves carbon deposits in the combustion chamber that can cause pinging.

 

Thanks. I wonder what the equivalent of Seafoam is in the UK?

 

Possibly Techron Complete Fuel System Cleaner, or Lucas Deep Clean Fuel System Cleaner.

 

Well, I've just changed the plugs, which is a pig of a job, what with removing the top and bottom panels and very difficult access to the rear of the engine.

I found nothing wrong with the original plugs, the colour looked good and there was no obvious problems. I'll give it a test drive later, but I don't think that it will have made any difference. Next step some fuel cleaner perhaps.

 

You are not alone, Sunnyday!

I too have a Mk2 1.2VTEC Jazz from 2009 in the UK and I'm suffering with the same problem. Between 1500 and 2000 rpm I'm getting the same symptoms of pinking - lack of power and the awful sound. Once the revs hit 2000 it will recover and start to accelerate. Oddly, it doesn't tend to do it in the lower gears. 1st and 2nd are fine 3rd is better but 4th and 5th are terrible. I'm also getting an odd clattering noise (which sound like the valve tappets) at around 1900rpm. It's louder when the engine is warm and is more noticeable when I take my foot of the gas and the revs drop to 1900.

Like you, I've tried changing the plugs and that has made the car livelier but has not cured the odd noises. I did wonder about the air filter so checked it and it seemed OK but there may be an air leak in the intake as putting a hand over the air intake to block it completely didn't seem to have any effect on the engine idle. I'll have to try stuffing a rag in and revving it to test that further.

I've also tried using Tesco's 99RON fuel but that seems to have had no effect. Apart from the plug change I've also attempted an 'Italian tune-up' by driving the car hard and getting the revs up to 5-6K. It seemed to like that and it definitely improved the acceleration of the car.

The next thing to try is the valve clearances but as I'm taking the car into the local Honda garage on Thursday for the airbag recall it'll be worth quizzing them about it. I'll post up what they suggest as I'm running out of ideas and patience!

 

Don't listen to Honda just adjust the valves.. Its a solid action valve system like a bike, it NEEDS them checked regularly, especially if you drive it hard.. Honda want to present the impression that their cars need no maintenance..
The coils are between the exhaust valves on my 07, not surprised the coils last about 60K and die..

 

Well Stickshifter, I'm glad that I'm not alone! What mileage have you got on yours? It will be interesting to hear what a Honda mech has to say.

My guess is that the coils are giving a weak spark, which is breaking down under load, like the old days of condenser failure, but I'm reluctant to shell out on new coils as there are so many other things that could cause the problem, including tappet adjustment. My local Honda garage wanted £140 plus vat, to look at the car, and I did not fancy that, and this is the downside to owning a car like a Honda - not many garages and the ones that are there are very busy. The first slot that they could find to do the air bag recall was a six-week wait.

I'm a bit puzzled about the anti-knock sensor; is mine working or not? When the car pinks it loses power, probably because the sensor is retarding the timing, but then why does the pinking still persist? Shouldn't the sensor stop it?

 

The car's on about 53,000 miles now. I know the history of the car as I originally bought it for my retired dad using my old Honda Civic to get it on the scrappage scheme. He had it for 5 years then passed it onto me 3 years ago when he replaced it with a new Jazz with the same 1.2 engine. I guess he did a 50/50 mix of short trips to the shops of 2-3 miles and 'days out' of 30-40 miles. No rallying/racing! It's been regularly serviced but only the first was by Honda. I've been doing it myself the last 3 years and use Castrol Edge 0w30 synthetic oil. Maybe I should switch to 5w30 to quieten the valves down a bit.

In eight years it hasn't given any problems but the engine has always been gutless (and noisy in higher gears) below 2k rpm when accelerating so I just drop down to 3rd at the start of hills. However, after driving my dad's newer Jazz in Scotland last month it felt a lot more torquey on hills and didn't make any of the noises that my car makes. It's not fair to compare a 3yr old with an 8yr old car but I could floor the gas on his car and it would just accelerate with no odd noises. When he came round the other week I had both cars idling on the drive with bonnets up to compare the noise of the engine. There was very little difference. His was marginally quieter but his engine was probably warmer than mine. The sound of the valves was virtually identical so it leads me to suspect that there is a problem with the intake or exhaust with possibly a rattling heat shield thrown in to confuse the issue.

I'm now on a mission to restore some of the magic to the car but don't want to throw a lot of money at a car that is not worth a great deal now.

 

Mine is absolutely gutless at low revs, it has no pulling power at all, which was really noticeable in the hills of the Yorkshire Dales recently, down to first gear at times and impossible to change up to second, it would just die; definitely not right.

 

Well, just got back from the Honda garage after having the driver's and passenger's airbags replaced due to the recall. While I was there I had the clutch and brake fluid replaced as it doesn't seem to have been changed at all. Reckoned it needed it after 8 years and it was £75 for both. The clutch action and gear change seemed smoother on the way home and the brakes were better, too.

I told them about the 'valve clatter' type noise at 1900rpm and asked them to check it as I was concerned the tappets needed adjusting. Of course they couldn't replicate the noise so they have just given me a price for doing the valve adjustment of £120 which I didn't think was too bad for a main dealer. I'll have to take the car out for a better test ride into the hills before deciding if it's worth doing (either DIY or get them to do it). The service guy said it should be done every 25K miles but I'm sure Honda upped it to 62.5K from 2006 onwards. It seems we can't get a straight answer about tappet adjustment interval with different dealers giving different answers. I'm keen to do it just to have a poke about under the cover and see how out they are.

The interesting part is that last night, before the garage visit, I was having a good look at the air filter. For the past 3 (yearly) services I've just put a cheap Crosland filter in from EuroCarParts. Looking at it last night the rubber seal didn't look very good quality with a few imperfections and a crease at one point. Comparing it to last year's filter it also had fewer pleats in it but the material looked a little different so I guess that makes up for it. I'm wondering if the filter has been leaking air around the sides under heavier throttle at low rpms and this has been the cause of the 'pinging' like noise. I was sceptical at first as there was a real metallic edge to the sound but after massaging the rubber seal around the filter and carefully putting it back I've not been able to replicate the worst of the noise driving to and from the garage today. When I put the air filter cover back on I took care to hold it above the filter while pushing it fully into the circular rubber bit (to avoid twisting the filter's seal) then pushed down before clipping the box. When I took the filter out it looked like the back edge of the rubber seal had been twisted around slightly by the cover the last time I fitted it. Maybe this was causing an air leak under load and upsetting the Mass Airflow Sensor on the top of the air filter box?

I'll be giving the car a better test over the next few days but my back is playing up so just getting in and out of the car is a literal pain at the moment

 

That's interesting; I know that some people fit 'freer flowing' air filters to their cars sometimes, which results in the engine running weak, so I suppose that a pattern air filter that has different construction to the Honda original may cause similar problems. My car was serviced by the garage that I bought it from before I collected it, and they may have put in a cheapo air filter.

 

Another thing I did when messing about with the air filter was look at the mysterious cover just behind and to the right of it. I unscrewed the two screws/bolts holding it down and unhooked the lid. Underneath was an empty space linked somehow to the rest of the air chambers so it must form some resonant space for the air intake. The removeable lid of this has a rubber seal in a groove running around it. I pulled this out with a toothpick and gave it a good clean with a damp cloth then did the same to the groove and all the surfaces on the main body where this seal sits. Once it had dried it was hooked back on and screwed back down.

I'm wondering if there has been air leaking in through this seal which would bypass the air filter and thus the Mass Airflow Sensor. This would make the air/fuel mixture leaner and cause pinking which the knock sensor would pick up, retard the timing and reduce the power.

Have a look at that mystery box on yours and give the seal a good clean maybe?

 

Thank you, I'll try to have a look tomorrow. I've just ordered a new air filter (Bosch) in case the one in the car is a real cheapo. My plan is to work through the easy bits to replace and hope that I get lucky.

Thanks for your input! If I get any good results I'll post them.

 

I've had a look at the mystery chamber, and mine all looks good, but what is it for? The air intake trumpet is below it and feeds into the air filter through a separate chamber and the two do not appear to be connected. I can't imagine that Honda would want to feed the engine unfiltered air under any circumstances. A mystery.

 

It's an 'intake resonator' that tunes the air intake to control the standing waves created as a result of the valves opening and closing. Well, that's what the 'net says!

If the seal on the bottom of that looks good then also check the circular rubber pipe that the air filter lid plugs into. It'll just pull out so you can check it for signs of dust where air has leaked in. Give it a good clean and reseat it. An air leak here could also be possible as it's easy to pull it out slightly when removing the air filter lid.

Good luck in your quest!

 

Well, I've replaced the air filter which made no difference, not that I expected it to. I would say that my engine is definitely suffering from a weak mixture, which makes it hard to pull away or to accelerate from low revs; the engine just bogs down. I don't know if there is any adjustment available to the fuel injection system, but I'm taking it in to have the air bag recall done today and I'll try to ask the mechanic.