2nd Generation (GE 08-13) 2nd Generation specific talk and questions here.

Grinding Noises from Front

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Old Mar 12, 2024 | 12:30 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Drew21
If you have trouble rotating an axle with the brake caliper removed, you have eliminated the brakes from consideration. That's not to say that your brakes are perfect or that you shouldn't replace your rotors if they're unevenly worn (inside vs outside) or have a lip, but they're not causing your larger issues. Switching your brake pads isn't going to solve anything here.

In your first video the popping/cracking noise sounded like CV joints to me. That's why I asked if you hear the noise when turning (common when CVs start to go bad) or all the time. I suspect you have passed the "starting to go bad" stage a long time ago and are now living in the "bad and ready to disintegrate" stage. The clicking you hear on both sides is most likely worn out CV joints, but could also be slop (= wear) in the differential I suppose.

If you really want to diagnose the problem, you can use large vice grips or a pipe wrench (plus an assistant) to isolate each CV joint. Use the vice grips or pipe wrench to secure the axle (between the inner and outer CV joint) so it can't move and then try to rotate the hub like you did in the video. If you have movement and clicking, your outer CV joint is gone. Then use the vice grips or pipe wrench to rotate the axle back and forth and see if you get movement or clicking in the inner CV joints. An easier alternative if you've reinstalled the brake calipers and pads is to have someone step on the brakes to lock the axles. Then grab your axle between the inner and outer CV joints with your vice grip or pipe wrench and attempt to rotate it back and forth. If it rotates and makes noise one or both CV joints are bad.

Edit: I just watched your third video which again points to CV joint problems. You really don't want them to come apart while you're driving (around the yard would be inconvenient, on the highway would be very bad), so I would again suggest parking the car until you figure out and fix whatever problems you're having.
Thank you Drew!..........I will do those tests........What are the odds it's something inside the transmission......i.e....not CV.........vs it being CV?

And how hard is it to change the CV axles?

Also, there's only 160K miles on the car.....is it usual for CV's to go out at that mileage?

Z
 

Last edited by Zardiw; Mar 12, 2024 at 12:33 AM.
Old Mar 12, 2024 | 02:47 PM
  #22  
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160K miles of steady-speed cruising on the highway is very different from 160K miles of hard acceleration/deceleration, potholes, gravel roads, etc. Parts wear (out) much faster on a car that's beaten on than on a car that lives an easy life.

I think you're at the point where it's worth consulting a real mechanic. My dad is a mechanic so I have medium knowledge about lots of automobile issues, but not enough to fully diagnose over the internet.

With that caveat, CV joint damage seems more likely than transmission damage and it fits the noises your car is making and the play in the axles you had in your second video when rotating the hubs.

How hard is it to replace the axles? Depends on what you're comfortable with and what tools you have. I would recommend watching a couple Youtube videos to determine if it's something you want to tackle.
 
Old Mar 12, 2024 | 04:04 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Drew21
160K miles of steady-speed cruising on the highway is very different from 160K miles of hard acceleration/deceleration, potholes, gravel roads, etc. Parts wear (out) much faster on a car that's beaten on than on a car that lives an easy life.

I think you're at the point where it's worth consulting a real mechanic. My dad is a mechanic so I have medium knowledge about lots of automobile issues, but not enough to fully diagnose over the internet.

With that caveat, CV joint damage seems more likely than transmission damage and it fits the noises your car is making and the play in the axles you had in your second video when rotating the hubs.

How hard is it to replace the axles? Depends on what you're comfortable with and what tools you have. I would recommend watching a couple Youtube videos to determine if it's something you want to tackle.
Thanks again Drew.............I've already ordered the CV axles..........and wheel bearings........I'm a pretty experienced mechanic myself, and from watching some YT vids, it seems straightforward and relatively easy........

Will make some videos of the process to post on this forum......

Also, I looked up the avg lifetime of CV's........it's 70K to 130K miles.........so at 160K I've gotten some extra miles out of them......

Z
 
Old Mar 12, 2024 | 05:07 PM
  #24  
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In your last video, I see what looks like your brake caliper resting on top of the hub and pushing the brake backing plate against the rotor. The backing plate also looks distorted and possibly worn away from what I could see in the video. I'd start by making sure the backing plate is free of touching the rotor- use a pry bar or large flat bladed screwdriver, if needed, to make clearance between the backing plate and the rotor. While you have the wheels off the ground, reach behind the backing plate and grab the axle in the middle and move it up and down and front to back to determine if there's any play or movement in the axle. There should not be any movement in it. If you find movement or clunking in the axle- it is bad and needs to be replaced.
 

Last edited by 56chevydan; Mar 12, 2024 at 05:09 PM.
Old Mar 13, 2024 | 05:16 PM
  #25  
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Update:

I got it mostly apart on both sides.......got the Driver side CV Axle out.

Working on the left side....got the hub assembly out.

So far it's been a relative piece of cake............don't know why I was so intimidate by this.......lol

Anyway, I found the Main problem so far: The Passenger wheel bearing was TOAST....

The hub wouldn't even turn......and when I pressed it out, balls went everywhere....lol

On both rows, the bearings retaining/holding ring had disintegrated and the balls were just rolling around in there loose.....

Got video of everything and will post them..........gonna be a lot of parts.....

The video started out to be an education video, so others wouldn't be scared to do this, and it may serve that purpose.......but some of the hard stuff makes it more of an entertainment vid now.

Don't know what shape the CV Axles are....gonna take them apart........

But I'm glad I'm replacing them.....cause now I got another 100K+ miles.......

And gonna have new bearings also.....

May check out the rear bearings.....but they probably are OK since they don't take as much abuse.....might just wait until they start screaming for grease....lol

Z
 

Last edited by Zardiw; Mar 13, 2024 at 05:19 PM.
Old Mar 13, 2024 | 05:17 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by 56chevydan
In your last video, I see what looks like your brake caliper resting on top of the hub and pushing the brake backing plate against the rotor. The backing plate also looks distorted and possibly worn away from what I could see in the video. I'd start by making sure the backing plate is free of touching the rotor- use a pry bar or large flat bladed screwdriver, if needed, to make clearance between the backing plate and the rotor. While you have the wheels off the ground, reach behind the backing plate and grab the axle in the middle and move it up and down and front to back to determine if there's any play or movement in the axle. There should not be any movement in it. If you find movement or clunking in the axle- it is bad and needs to be replaced.
Probably camera angle.......the backing plate is fine and not rubbing.....see above for what the cause so far is.

Z
 
Old Mar 13, 2024 | 08:32 PM
  #27  
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Got the Passenger side CV axle out..........took it apart.....just beat it out with a drift...easy peasy.....it looks fine.......

One weird thing is the wheel side grease was puke green........the other side was brown........

Looks like the only problem was the Passenger side wheel bearing..........

Z
 

Last edited by Zardiw; Mar 14, 2024 at 12:05 AM.
Old Mar 14, 2024 | 12:02 AM
  #28  
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Advice to others who have weird noises coming from the front........Check the Bearings FIRST.......lol

Z
 
Old Mar 14, 2024 | 12:12 AM
  #29  
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Some pics of the Passenger side CV Axle......seems to be totally fine.......weird the different colors though.......the second/right side is the wheel side......it won't come further apart....maybe a press fit?...........Z



 
Old Mar 14, 2024 | 02:30 PM
  #30  
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I know I'm a little late to this party, but decided to add a little advice. I've driven front wheel drive cars since the early '80's, and the most common repairs I've done are wheel bearings and CV joints. Wheel bearings are all now 'maintenance free' and sealed, so you can't do anything with them until they get noisy, then you replace them. Some only last 50,000 miles or less, others may go over 100,000. The usual sign of failure is a howling noise that changes as you steer the car left, and right, and back again. In my experience, CV joints usually do not cause trouble unless the rubber boots covering them crack or are damaged, allowing water and dirt in and grease out. It's good to inspect the boots whenever you're under the car and especially if you see grease has leaked out. Drew 21 is correct that they can make a clicking sound when worn, especially if you make a sharp turn. There are kits to replace the boots and it has saved me money in the past, but with axles only $50, you may as well get the whole axle and be done with it. I believe the grease is different colors because different kinds are used in the inner and outer joints. And yes, the outer joint is usually locked together somehow. It may be a press fit or have a locking ring somewhere. An important thing here is to buy quality parts. I heard years ago that there are cheap Chinese made axles that are poorly balanced and cause vibration issues. You're probably fine with what you got from Rock Auto. Another tip is anytime you take front suspension apart it can affect wheel alignment so it's good to get it checked. Looks like you're on the right track and doing well.
 
Old Mar 14, 2024 | 03:17 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Kenword
I know I'm a little late to this party, but decided to add a little advice. I've driven front wheel drive cars since the early '80's, and the most common repairs I've done are wheel bearings and CV joints. Wheel bearings are all now 'maintenance free' and sealed, so you can't do anything with them until they get noisy, then you replace them. Some only last 50,000 miles or less, others may go over 100,000. The usual sign of failure is a howling noise that changes as you steer the car left, and right, and back again. In my experience, CV joints usually do not cause trouble unless the rubber boots covering them crack or are damaged, allowing water and dirt in and grease out. It's good to inspect the boots whenever you're under the car and especially if you see grease has leaked out. Drew 21 is correct that they can make a clicking sound when worn, especially if you make a sharp turn. There are kits to replace the boots and it has saved me money in the past, but with axles only $50, you may as well get the whole axle and be done with it. I believe the grease is different colors because different kinds are used in the inner and outer joints. And yes, the outer joint is usually locked together somehow. It may be a press fit or have a locking ring somewhere. An important thing here is to buy quality parts. I heard years ago that there are cheap Chinese made axles that are poorly balanced and cause vibration issues. You're probably fine with what you got from Rock Auto. Another tip is anytime you take front suspension apart it can affect wheel alignment so it's good to get it checked. Looks like you're on the right track and doing well.

Thank you Kenword...........I did buy the more expensive axles from RockAuto......and will get it aligned when it's all back together again....I never really noticed any noise from that bearing......until it got bad ..........there was a sound like brake pads going to metal, but they still had life in them when I checked......good lesson here....check the bearings first...

At any rate now she'll have all new parts.......

Z
 
Old Mar 15, 2024 | 09:23 AM
  #32  
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I'm starting to think that Honda CV Axles last a LOT LONGER than usual.........I found nothing wrong with either of them.......

Unfortunately I assumed it was the CV axles.....when in reality the only problem was the Passenger side wheel bearing......

I should have tested the CV axles as was suggested earlier to try to isolate the problem.

I noticed that the Passenger side wheel was very hard to turn when jacked up. That should have clued me in..........sigh.........

Z
 
Old Mar 16, 2024 | 11:00 AM
  #33  
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I've decided to put the original Driver side CV axle back in.

The replacement is just a one piece shaft, where the OEM one is 2 parts to the shaft.

I believe that's for balancing when they make them, and I think the one piece shaft will have balancing issues.

And CV axles don't go bad unless the boot gets damaged and they lose grease........otherwise they should last forever.

Will try to plug the small hole I put in the Passenger side boot and put that one back in also.

Found out that Loctite 401 works well for this. And the Loctite 770 Primer would help on adhesion also.

Z
 

Last edited by Zardiw; Mar 17, 2024 at 08:59 AM.
Old Mar 16, 2024 | 01:54 PM
  #34  
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Did you figure out what caused the "slop" in both axles in your second video?
 
Old Mar 16, 2024 | 02:56 PM
  #35  
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It appears that one side of your pass side axle has contaminated grease in it. Unless someone had that axle apart in the past and used different grease to re-pack the cv joint on one side- which doesn't make sense,, the grease in both sides should be the same color..

Considering the relatively inexpensive cost of axles, the fact you have 160,000 miles on the originals, the cost of an alignment when you've put the car back together, and the need to, at a bare minimum, totally clean and re-grease the cv joints and install new boots on both ends of both axles , it would, in my opinion, be a good investment to install both rebuilt axles you ordered.

The one axle that is two piece includes the fixed sub axle that compensates for one axle being longer because of the placement of the engine and trans in your car.. Front wheel drive cars have an engine on one side and the trans is mated to the back of it on the other side. One axle is naturally longer to make up the distance from the hub to where it goes into the trans. Good luck- I hope you get it back together soon.
 

Last edited by 56chevydan; Mar 16, 2024 at 02:59 PM.
Old Mar 16, 2024 | 03:28 PM
  #36  
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Throwing in an extra penny's worth: blown suspension can lead to premature failure of cv shafts. their deal is maintaining rotation at an angle, and blown suspension allows a lot more and more aggressive (un-dampened) fluctuation in that angle.
I just did CV shafts on another vehicle and I even had to replace the intermediate shaft. I'd replaced one of the CV shafts about 3 years back but wasn't greenlit for refreshing the front end. Same shaft 3 years later started making a racket every time the car took a turn.
additionally, the intermediate axel shaft (two-piece affair) was out of round/wobbled in rotation coming out of the trans, causing a trans fluid leak from the related output seal. Pretty big deal!
All that stuff works together When one part can't carry its load, the conjoined ones bear it to their detriment.
 
Old Mar 17, 2024 | 08:58 AM
  #37  
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Ok. got her all back together again and she's driving fine now.

Z
 
Old Mar 17, 2024 | 09:00 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Drew21
Did you figure out what caused the "slop" in both axles in your second video?
There really wasn't any slop. That was just normal back and forth play in the axle/trans gears I think.

Z
 

Last edited by Zardiw; Mar 17, 2024 at 09:02 AM.
Old Mar 17, 2024 | 09:08 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by 56chevydan
It appears that one side of your pass side axle has contaminated grease in it. Unless someone had that axle apart in the past and used different grease to re-pack the cv joint on one side- which doesn't make sense,, the grease in both sides should be the same color..

Considering the relatively inexpensive cost of axles, the fact you have 160,000 miles on the originals, the cost of an alignment when you've put the car back together, and the need to, at a bare minimum, totally clean and re-grease the cv joints and install new boots on both ends of both axles , it would, in my opinion, be a good investment to install both rebuilt axles you ordered.

The one axle that is two piece includes the fixed sub axle that compensates for one axle being longer because of the placement of the engine and trans in your car.. Front wheel drive cars have an engine on one side and the trans is mated to the back of it on the other side. One axle is naturally longer to make up the distance from the hub to where it goes into the trans. Good luck- I hope you get it back together soon.
She was bought new, so nobody changed the grease in the axles.

And both sides are 2 piece. I think that's a construction process where they match up the 2 sides for better balancing. No other reason I can see to make them 2 part.

Each side works differently.....the wheel side has 3 'wheels' and a long channel that they move in. The other side has ball bearings. I don't see how any contamination got in.

Are you sure that both sides should have the same color grease?.......and if so, which side do you think has the contamination? The puke green color or the brown color?

Neither axle had Any detectable play........right now the Driver side has the original OEM one, and the Passenger side has the after market one. BUT after I fix that hole in the OEM boot, and re-band the boots, I'm planning on putting the Passenger side OEM one back in.

Z
 
Old Mar 17, 2024 | 09:11 AM
  #40  
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I've started a YouTube video series on the whole process. It's LONG, and wll have about 12 parts when it's all done.

Part 1:

Z
 



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