I noticed this "squirrely" also the other day.
back end doesn't feels stable at all.
but today i put my other rims and tires on and
wow. what a differance. 205/40/17 tires and
17X7 rims 42 offset makes.
the back end squirrely went away almost completly.
night and day diff.

so i guess that stock 55 side wall has alot of play
then.
just my experience.

 

Good! I have some stickier tires on order. To me, there is too much "flopping around" before it takes a good set. Stickier tires should help it reach a set quicker with less drama.

I hope the aftermarket steps up with some gargantuan front and rear sway bars for the Fit Sport, as this will help with the sloppy feeling and reduce the considerable body roll. I don't want to lower it or stiffen it up any more since I'm not the only one driving this car.

niko3257, what tires did you go with?

 

If you think having the rear step out "under hard braking while turning the wheel a bit" is a problem, then there is only one place to look: the mirror. Any car that isn't a complete understeering pig (and even some that are) is going to do exactly the same thing. Better tires aren't going to change this behavior. In fact, they will probably make it more abrupt.

This was always the best go-fast strategy in my Integra GS-R: back it in gently on the brakes until it rotates just enough, then quickly (but smoothly) transition to a bit of extra steering angle along with the go pedal to pull it through the turn.

 

Did these fit without rubbing?

 

Are you sure you are comparing apples to apples? Have you carefully measured the bar to see that the leverage (mount points) and effective torsional spring rate (the length of the bar) are the same as the 08?

 

You obviously don't know what I'm talking about. I've had 7 sports cars thus far. This squirrelyness I'm referring to is during PANIC BRAKING. Read the thread first before you comment. This car's rear is lively and unsettled when weight transfers to the front. Now imagine panic braking while on a decline while turing the wheel, and when I say turning the wheel I mean just a little to avoid the car in front of me that just slammed its brakes.

Grippier tires WILL help here.

 

Turning the wheel and braking hard is a recipe for swinging the rear around. Back in my delinquent days I could do a 180 in my 1987 CRX Si (my first autocrossing car) without the handbrake that way... with A008R mounted. Grippier tires will increase the limits, but won't fundamentally stop the rear from coming around with the type of inputs you describe. Even my STI will get "squirrely" when driven like that... just the way it should.

In any case, I'll find out soon enough. 09 Fit Sport MT with Nav. should be here in about two weeks and I'm sure I'll want better tires. Looks like I'll need wheels too since not much interesting is available in the stock size.

BTW, tirerack lists three OEM tire sizes including 17" and 18" options. Anyone know what Honda is going to be offering that has them listing these sizes?

 

Nope, just eyeballed them as I said. The understeer in an 08 Fit is so ferocioua that even with a slight increase in arm length or decrease in metal torsion on 09's would absolutely require a rear bar. The increased weight of the 09 rear would minimize the strength of the rear bar but the one I drove is only moderately better than the 08. Worse, the 08 with no bar is far better than the 09 with both bars.

 

As others point out, your squirreliness is your tires, not the suspension.
Front weighted cars are always supposed to have much less rear traction when the weight transfer on braking, leading to immediate oversteer when turning as others pointed out.
I translate your squirreliness into the tires wavering or wobbling when unloaded, the way a loose wheel on a grocery cart does.
The problem is the SP31 tires which we have always found to be as cheap and flimsy a tire as ever made. You can virtually squash the tire in the palm of your hand. So reducing the weight load on the tire leaves it flabby and because of the weak sidewall no directional stability at all.
As others pointed out here, too, exchanging the tires is an immediate solution. But changing antisway bars won't solve the problem.

 

So deactivate the front bar.

 

nothing special
continentals all season
extreme conti's

 

there is lots of space around the rim
and tire. no rubbing at all whats so ever.

probably have to watch out when lowering though.
but not 100% sure yet. also depends on drop.

 

mahout, I think your stating these as "facts" is a bit tentative. The new Fit Sport is tuned differently, and the tires are a different model. While the tires seem fair, by no means would I characterize them as being the cause of squirreliness in my Fit.

Based on some of my basic measurements and some mild flogging, there appears to be too much slop (for my taste) in the suspension before it takes a set. Granted, I am probably a lot more picky about this than most. The Fit Sport is not too bad once the suspension is fully loaded up, but getting there is sloppy. I am able to intentionally drift the rear out, and it is behaved once it gets there.

I think this car is too new to draw general conclusions on parts that are not yet made or have not yet been installed. I want to thank niko3257 for supplying his/her datapoint on some of the first Fit Sport suspension/tire modifications posted. I also appreaciate mahout for some first impressions and comparisons.

 

+1
Those CRXs and A008Rs were sure fun in their days!
Looking forward to your impressions/comparisons!

FWIW, I'm putting on 205/50R16s. As you noted, there is "nothing" in the stock size. The 205/50s have a higher load rating which I don't like compared to the +1 and +2 17" and 18" options. Note that the TireRack tire selector is wrong. It lists 225/45R17. This should be 205/45R17. (The wheel selector tire size is right.) For completeness, the 18" are 215/35R18. At this point, I would seriously question the suspension's ability to cope with a 35-series tire, so 18" are probably more bling. I know I'm asking for trouble with that blasted TPMS as the 205/50s will likely need lower tire pressures than stock, and I'm already dropping the stock rear tire pressures since they are over-inflated. My tire temps are notably higher in the center. I am going to be TPMS light-limited unless I decide to screw the TPMS.

 

That' exactly what I've been saying all along! I want to mitigate the tail from coming around during even mild panic braking with this car. All my other cars didn't have this trait, not by a long shot. Ergo, 205/50/16 summer tires.

 

This sounds pretty discouraging since even my new STI understeered far too much for my taste when stock. Any guesses as to how to tune out some understeer on the 09? I can't believe they welded the rear bar at the ends... that really sucks. Bolting on parts is one thing, but I don't want to get into welding on suspension bits.

 

Don't know the weight distribution specs on both cars, but any increased rear weight would give more weight transfer in the rear. So, I'm not sure what you're implying by "minimize the strength of the rear bar". You would need less, everything else being identical. Further, if the '09 Fit is structurally more rigid, that will also affect more rear weight transfer.

Far better in terms of final understeer/oversteer or exactly what? I gotta imagine that without any swaybars, it's got to roll around like a pig in the mud.

 

I think the squirreliness that you're describing is not the same as mine. Panic braking while turning is going to have much of the same effect you describe. It's going to be hard to completely mitigate.

Going to stickier tires may even cause more weight transfer and worsen the problem for you. The stickier tires, in less than panic conditions, however should raise your limits of adhesion and keep things more in check before you exceed those limits.

One thing you might try is checking your rear toe. You may even be able to get your dealer to check it and give you a print-out. I don't know what the tolerances are, but the rear is spec'ed at 0.10" toe. If you're running this, then run this + the tolerance or possibly more. The downside may be increased rear tire wear (and slightly decreased mileage), but if you're not able to avoid these turning, panic stops, it will be cheaper than body work. Note that you will likely not be able to get a precision rear alignment at some "garden variety" alignment shop. You will probably need a shop experienced in race alignments and even then it might be difficult because they will not likely have any experience with '09 Fits. Heck, I don't even know how to adjust the rear toe on this torsion beam suspension, but it's got to be adjustable for toe since it's such an important alignment spec.

 

Acually the springs and shocks control adhesion. Antisway bars merely balance the handling on the ends of the car by changing the tire contact patch.
Antisway bars appear to let the vehicle ride flatter but actually function as means to lift the inside tire away from the pavement. Thjt reduces traction - and cornering. The premise of good handling is to keep tires in contact with the road as long as possible which leads to minimizing the antisway bars.
The 08 without bars is faster than the 08 with bar simply because turn-in is much improved, ultimate cornering power is improved, and response is much improved. The 08 with bar 'plows' in every turn and gets away weakly compared to the no bar 08.
Coud it be better? You bet. A little lowering (1") would help, as would stiffer rear springs/shocks. Just don't have the time.

 

I don't understand how a wider grippier tire back there will exacerbate the twitchiness. More weight from the wider tire? Some other poster here mentioned they put their 205/45/17s on and the stability was vastly improved, night and day.

About alignment, does anyone know what alignment adjustments CAN'T be done on these 09s? Camber? Caster?

If (for example only) rear camber is non-adjustable, how easy is it for this non-adjustable suspension to be knocked outta wack in regards to camber? Is it more difficult than an adjustable suspension?

Not that I hit many big potholes, but just in case, I don't want to drive around in a car with alignment all off.