I may not know crap about manufacturing, but i know human nature. Since the Japanese historically have a MUCH better track record for quality control (c'mon, lets be honest here), partially attributed to the social expectations and traditions of the people who run and work in the auto plants, and the more refined manufacturing techniques, due to this, i think it might be a reasonable assumption that the quality could suffer with the cars manufactured in the U.S.. An example that comes to mind is with motorcycles. Why is the quality and reliability of Japanese motorcycles undisputedly MUCH better than motorcycles built in the U.S., and elsewhere in the world?

 

The Japanese have a better track record because when Edwards Deming--an American--came to them with an idea(TQM-Total Quality Management) they took it. TQM focuses on quality and the customer to an incredible degree. Honda would not have built plants in America without using TQM, it has worked and will continue to work for many years. Just as a post above suggested, the American plants have quality that matches, if not surpasses, the Japanese plants.

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

You can disagree all you want but if you looked into any Japanese Company and did not find some sort of TQM I would be quite surprised. Do you think they are genetically better and building automobiles? I don't understand your opinion. It is definitely in their culture to produce quality well, but TQM is a western idea that we didn't adopt--possibly one of the worst decisions General Motors and Ford made. Since Deming other quality 'philosophers' have influenced Japanese culture, but Deming was the first.

 

My last car was an 06 Accord EX-v6 w/ a 6 speed manual, which I believe was mostly built in the US. It already had a bunch of stuff that drove me crazy after only 24,000 miles such as numerous rattles and buzzes and the well-noted 3rd gear issue. The most annoying was when any of the windows were about a 1/4 of the way down, the window would rattle like crazy. It sounded like it was going to shatter when opening and closing the door. But of course, Honda technician 'didn't notice anything unusual.'

I just picked up my Fit on Tuesday but after a 500+ mile drive today, I'm already noticing a small buzz in the door... and it's Japanese made, right? Maybe the Honda technician will believe me this time.

 

The unfortunate thing is that defects can occur. Do you go on drives with the mechanic? I would ask him to take a drive with you and push your car a little further than you would normally, or at least a little harder than he would push it--I hope.

 

I just want to make sure I understand your argument. Are you saying that historically, American cars are as reliable as and of equal quality to Japanese made cars? The Total Quality Management philosophy may have been created by an american, but that has no bearing on the quality of American cars versus Japanese cars. I am saying that I am confident MOST people would agree that Japanese made cars have a MUCH better track record for reliability and quality than American made cars. You may get a handful of people on a message board that will say otherwise, but I am confident that the vast majority of people would agree with me. I have owned both and there has been no comparison. I have also owned both Japanese and American motorcycles, and once again, the Japanese bikes were of much higher quality and had far better reliability.

 

When I was deciding whether to buy an '08 in a non-preferred colour or wait for the '09, the salesman tried to scare me by saying the '09 would be built in North America. His trick almost worked, but I did a little research and found that to be false. If true I would definitely have bought an '08.

I don't trust North American quality, we have a bad track record. Say what you will about internal quality checks, (oh look the inspector is coming!). Can anyone confirm that domestic manufacturers have scored horribly on all their quality scores for the last decade or two? No? Then I rest my point.

The Japanese are good at taking anything we do and making it better. I'm not willing to blame a union or whatever for the downfall of the domestic automotive industry, just lack of direction, managerial bloat, poor attention to detail. They are spending too much time making things "new" and "fancier" and "improved", over-engineering and designing components unnecessarily complicated with little foresight to real world performance. All the while trying to cut costs and make things cheaper at the same time. Then it fails, the company loses money, and is forced to cut costs yet again. It's a viscous cycle. My 2¢.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.
-Albert Einstein

 

I agree with Fits of Fury 100%. I would have seriously considered another car if I found out that the 2009 Fit was made in the U.S. Surely I am not suggesting that a low-end Japanese car is perfect, just better than a comparable U.S. made car.

 

Guess where the transmission for the Si comes from... Japan!!!

 

I would agree with you too... (for the most part) BUT... a car put together in North America by a Japanese company is still a "Japanese" Car since it's still put together using all of the same philoshphies (and parts).

 

I think some of the problem with the Big 3 is attitude: ie: we're American and Americans will buy our cars - regardless of quality. Detroit seems (to me) to have had that attitude for years. Now it's bit them and look where they're at. Ford seems to be the only one who is improving the quality of their cars. I've wondered lately if Honda & Toyota are getting an attitude of their own. Hey, our cars have a rep for quality, and we can coast now. Toyota has gotten black eyes for quality in the last couple of years and I see the same thing with Honda. People who have problems with their Hondas have gone to Honda of America and they get nowhere. No car is perfect and cars will always have problems, but I just wonder if the quality of Honda and Toyota has gone down. I had a trusted mechanic who did Hondas, and he told me that the quality of the US built cars wasn't as good as the Japan built cars. This was based on repair work he did. Still, with all that's been said, a 10 year old Honda will be in the same shape as a 5 year old domestic, and that is what I'm looking for in a car.

 

No, the Japanese have a better track record for quality. The reason they have this is their steps toward quality and also management decision making; their decisions are made on facts and data rather than gut feelings.

I agree with you that the Japanese have better quality but what I am saying is that their quality makes it over to the states as well. A company like Honda prides themselves on quality--they have too much to lose to bring production over here and have it fail.

 

I will definitely agree with you. I think Ford is doing a great job of digging themselves out of the hole. The new Fiesta is only going to make things better for them.

I will also agree with you about Toyota, not Honda. Is it just me or does Toyota have no attractive cars?

 

Yep but ... it`s built in the good ol` U S of A

 

Yes but you were quoting the Si's transmission issues as an example of a car built in North America being inferior to a car built in Japan... and the transmission comes from Japan... Most of the engines come from either the engine plant in Ohio or sometimes Japan as well. And just to correct you further it's not built "in the good ol` U S of A" all Si's are built in Canada Eh!

 

Hmmmmm I`ll play this game... And what year are you refering too..??

 

The fact is, only time will tell if the American made Hondas will stand the test of time as the Japanese ones have (historically). I am confident that the test of time will prove that Japanese built cars last longer. I am not saying that they will be perfect and without any problems, just better than the american made ones. People can use the argument that the American ones will be made to the same standards etc., but that argument tdoesn't hold water, in my opinion. Most American products (companies) focus on cutting cost, to make a quicker profit, as opposed to building up your quality and reliability over time, as Japanese car makers have done in the past. There are many old (10-20 years) with crazy high mileage, Toyotas and Hondas floating around, with original motors that are still going strong. Only time will tell if the American made ones will hold up as well. I must say, I think this is a silly discussion, because it is widely believed that most (not all) American made cars, have crappy build quality and questionable reliability. Anyboby who wants to argue that point, have fun, but I am very confident that the overwhelming majority would agree that the build quality of Japanese made cars is better, not perfect, but better.

 

Current 8th gen (06-09) Civic Si... What Si are you referring to?

Please do your research first if you're going to try to tell me the Si is built in the US, I've only been working in the Canadian facility where all Civic coupes including the Si (plus all Si Sedans) are exclusively built for the last 11 years.

 

Yeah.
I want to know where to 'look it up'. can't find it in my TSB logs or in Consumer Reports from thousands of owners,

I took a class under Deming which began my SQC career, supplying Honda and Toyota parts. Deming was thrown out of Detroit as too costly.
But honda and Toyota lived his TQM system. ("soo solly, Mr Engineer, you had 4 defective parts in 22 million and we expect max of 2. And delivered to door no. - within 3 minutes of schedule.
'.
Every time I went to Detroit, the goal was lowest price below target; quality be damned. ("yes we know the part won't be as good at that price but that's what we have all those lawyers for.")
In Detroit's 'defense' most parts are shoddy designs; those don't provide much support to quality assembly either.

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