I am probably an atypical service advisor but if the noise is a customer complaint and the vehicle is under warranty I would think it would be covered. I will be submitting mine as warranty and do not expect it to be rejected.

The trick is finding a dealership/service advisor/technician combo to get the job done. If the tech "doesn't hear it", your service advisor doesn't dig deeper and the service manager doesn't get involved, you are likely to be NPF'd. Remember, these cars are still relatively new. With typical service intervals for valve adjustment being around 100k miles or when "noisy" it would not be a first thought. Additionally, many of the cars may be out of adjustment which would make it sound "normal". The job is also MUCH more difficult than a typical i4 which makes a quick check impossible. If you have a relationship with either a service advisor or service manager you might have a good shot without getting American Honda involved.

 

Rhyneba,

Did you have to take the plastic cowl off? I'm going to go to another dealer and see what they have to say and if I get the same response as the previous dealer did, I'm just gonna go ahead and adjust it myself.

Did you also replace the gaskets with new ones? From the looks of things, the lower intake manifold gasket ( the one that meets the cylinder head), and valve cover gasket would need to be replaced.

 

Is there a short or long term risk not having this adjusted? If a dealer can't or won't get it done and it's a four hour job at my regular mechanic, that's a lot of freakin bucks. I can't imagine anything loose and rattling being good for anything though.

Dan

 

Well if it is not adjusted, it's not good for the lifters because when they are loose, it's kind of hammering on the lifters/valves because of the tiny gap between the lifter and the valve. The reason for the adjustment is to bring the gap within spec so that there is minimal clearance. You also have to remember that following the spec'd clearance is the only way to go as to compensate for when the engine gets up to operating temp because metal expansion occures when they get hot (operating temp.).

The only funny thing I can see with this is that my car and others in here are having this valvetrain noise when the engine is up to operating temp. Usually you should only hear this when the engine is first started after being parked for a while i.e. overnight when everything is cold thus giving the most amount of clearance between the lifters. IDK what's up but I'm waiting on rhyneba on his/her review if the noise has gone away.

 

In extreme cases, an exhaust valve could burn (too tight), or there might be very slight extra wear (loose). I'm surprised that Honda doesn't think they need adjusting until 100K miles; most engines go through a settling in period, after which you check the valve clearances, then they should remain relatively unchanged for a long time.

A little bit of clatter at startup might be normal with hydraulic lifters, but I think you're more likely to hear valve train noises on an OHC engine when it's warmed up, due to thinner oil. I'm not sure which direction clearances move on the Fit engine between hot and cold.

 

Not to make the whole darn thing about me, but I've listened very closely and I just don't hear this noise no matter cold or hot. But I sure am interested and will be following this thread.

Dan

 

The basic steps were:

Remove wipers (rubber covers and 14mm bolts) 5 minutes
Remove hood hinge covers (plastic, broke both clips) 2 minutes
Remove upper wiper cowling (plastic, all clips, none broke) 5 minutes
Remove wiper motor assembly (4 10mm bolts, 1 connector) 5 minutes
Remove lower cowl (metal, 6 10mm bolts) 5 minutes
Remove air box (2 10mm bolts, a few wire clips and connector for mass air) 5 minutes
Remove throttle body (4 14mm bolts) but do not remove coolant lines 5 minutes
Remove upper intake manifold (5 12mm bolts, 2 10mm bolts on back and one 14mm under throttle body) 15 minutes
Remove coil harness (connectors and snap-clips)
Remove valve cover (6? 10mm bolts) 5 minutes
Adjust valves 20 minutes
All steps reversed to complete.
Reset PCM with negative battery cable removed
Idle relearn (10 minute idle after reaching operating temp, no accessories on)

Simple lol

I replaced no gaskets, all were pliable and supple. Honda's documentation said to replace the intake manifold upper plenum o-rings and the throttle body o-ring. If it had 100k miles and were 5-7 years old I would have as they would have been brittle and crushed.

To my limited knowledge in the short term (months) there is no damage, in the long term you run the risk of "mushrooming" the top of the valve stem. We get cars in all the time that have needed valve adjustment for years, you can adjust them quiet but they will need another adjustment prematurely because of the valve wear.

I will be driving it home tonight, I will post the results of the noise. I will attempt a better DIY instructions at some point once I'm done my oil filter study.

FWIW,

b

 

Even though I check valve clearances on my boxer every 6000 miles, I think I'm going to take the Fit to a dealer when I suspect the valves need to be adjusted. Rhyneba, since you work for a dealer, can you give us a book estimate for how many hours this would be charged?

For folks who plan to have a dealer adjust the valves, keep in mind that the adjustment needs to be done with a cool engine, so you either need to leave it overnight, have plans to do something else, or bring plenty of reading material with you. Allowing for cooldown, I would guess minimum of 4 hours elapsed time from start to finish, even if all hours aren't all billable. I'm sure I could do a more precise job than a dealer, since time would not be a concern, but as I get older, I get lazier.

 

All true. Warranty pays 1.8 book hours, flat time, ADP shows 2.7 hours. As for precision, I have techs who build 700-800hp Civics and Integras, precision isn't a question.

 

Rhyneba,

Do you think I can get away w/o removing the throttle body off the upper intake plenum? can I just take the intake plenum off together with the throttle body?

Are these the right spec for the clearance of both intake and exhaust valves:
Intake: 0.15-0.19 (0.006-0.007 in);
Exhaust: 0.26-0.30 (0.010-0.012 in).

I got those from a thread for the GD3 valve adjustment. Just wondering if it's the same for GE8s.

Thank you for providing us a lot of info!!

 

rhyneba, do you hear any more noise after the valve adjustment?

 

The specs you have are what I have for the GE8. As far as removing the throttle body from the upper plenum the issue is the length of the coolant lines. There isn't enough room to easily flip the upper manifold over with the throttle body still attached. It was very easy to remove, regardless.

b

 

Rhyneba,

Ok, so they have the same spec. Thank you!!

I'm sorry for all these questions, but would also like to ask you how did you turn the engine over to line up each piston to it's TDC position? Did you go the crank pulley route? I know I should have consolidated all my ?s in one post. Again sorry.

 

The noise is gone . The vibration is gone I can hear my little Honda motor, now, even that little "piston slap" sound when it's cold and under load. I can hear wind noise I didn't know existed and still hear the trans whirring/hissing but the frenetic tapping sound is gone.

I love my Fit even more now. My wife is not amused.

b

 

Crank pulley, turned the wheel hard right and used a 30" extension and a 1/2" ratchet. There was a place I could thread it through without removing any plastics or the wheel.

 

^^^ Sweet!!! Will be doing it this weekend. I can't stand it anymore and the noise has got to go!!!! Thank you for all your help.

 

Does anyone have an audio file of the 'before' sound?

 

Does anyone know why Honda still has mechanical lifters in this day and age? Come to think of it, are there any Honda engines that have hydraulic lifters?

But at least our cars have timing chains so they're not that ancient.

 

I actually noticed this noise before looking at this thread. I had the windows down. Noticed the slight knock/tick while accelerating at 5-10mph. does not happen during other gears, or I just cant hear it then.

 

Pharmpk,

I think recording an audio file of this said sound might be hard hearing over the speakers as the noise can be masked out by the sound of engine rev.

Mtunofit,

It bothers me too to think at this time honda still uses among majority of their engines (if not all) solid lifters instead of hydraulic lifters. Maybe it's their way of not putting too much strain on the oil as hydraulic lifters, from it's name itself means the lifter is functioning with the use of oil pressure. This is just "what could be among the reason".

I really don't mind checking the lifter clearance if it weren't for the removal of the wipers, wiper assembly, upper and lower cowl, upper intake plenum, yada yada yada. It's not mind blowingly hard by all means (for some it may be hard, at least to me it's ok), it just makes it a little bit more involving compared to let us say a K20 or an S2000 engine (F20/F22?) where you just remove the valve cover, some wires here and there, a little jiggling of hoses and then you can knock yourself out adjusting the valves.

Mdbrich,

Try paying more attention, it might still be present, you just don't hear it because of some road noise. At what RPM range do you hear it?