First Oil Change
Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 77
From: Dallas, TX
Good find Uncle_Gary, I guess everyone should not rely on the maintenance minder and go by what he/she feels should be serviced.
Personally I typically inspect air filter/cabin filter, tranny and coolant levels at oil changes, change the coolant every 2 yrs cause of the TX heat, change auto tranny fluid around 30-40K mark, when I get my tires rotated I inspect the brake pads (Fit has rear drums so we'll just have to wait till the squeal indicators make noise), drive with the radio off periodically listen for any unusual sounds in the suspension or engine, etc.
Just typical practices I'm sure most of us do regardles of the maintaince minder.
Personally I typically inspect air filter/cabin filter, tranny and coolant levels at oil changes, change the coolant every 2 yrs cause of the TX heat, change auto tranny fluid around 30-40K mark, when I get my tires rotated I inspect the brake pads (Fit has rear drums so we'll just have to wait till the squeal indicators make noise), drive with the radio off periodically listen for any unusual sounds in the suspension or engine, etc.
Just typical practices I'm sure most of us do regardles of the maintaince minder.
Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,421
From: Upstate New York
I guess many of us grew up with the "3000 mile oil change" drummed into our heads by oil companies, auto companies and our fathers. Now comes Honda with this new technology, and VERY long service intervals, and we're a little suspicious of their motives and engineering (at least I am, I guess).
One problem, is that Honda expects us to obey the oil change meter, but won't tell us the parameters it uses to figure oil life. There are many parameters that are known to the ECU that could be used: miles driven, total engine revs, # of cold starting days, engine operating temperature, ambient temperature, and probably others. I'm not asking for how Honda weights the various parameters, but it would make me feel more comfortable with the technology if I knew a bit more about how the meter figures the oil change interval.
One problem, is that Honda expects us to obey the oil change meter, but won't tell us the parameters it uses to figure oil life. There are many parameters that are known to the ECU that could be used: miles driven, total engine revs, # of cold starting days, engine operating temperature, ambient temperature, and probably others. I'm not asking for how Honda weights the various parameters, but it would make me feel more comfortable with the technology if I knew a bit more about how the meter figures the oil change interval.
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,371
From: NC USA
I just had my first oil change today on my 09 Sport.
I had about 7200km and oil life of 70%.
It seemed weird that the mileage was so high and oil life was still at 70%, so I asked the dealer when to change it.
They said just bring it in, so I did.
After all was said and done, I received the paperwork on the service and noticed that it showed oil change (NO FILTER).
The great part was, the service was FREE.
But what the hell, no oil filter.
This service seems almost pointless, without a new filter.
Anyone else notice this?
I had about 7200km and oil life of 70%.
It seemed weird that the mileage was so high and oil life was still at 70%, so I asked the dealer when to change it.
They said just bring it in, so I did.
After all was said and done, I received the paperwork on the service and noticed that it showed oil change (NO FILTER).
The great part was, the service was FREE.
But what the hell, no oil filter.
This service seems almost pointless, without a new filter.
Anyone else notice this?
VERY BAD ERROR: THE FILTER SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHANGED. Today's smaller filters have less capacity to hold contaminants filtered out that it is imperative to change the filter at least when you change the oil.
While the oil may be stiil a good lubricant filling the filter with gunk means unfitered oil will be circulating and that's bad news. Some of the stuff thats circulating is very bad on metal parts.
New Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9
From: canada
So, if I change the oil early, how do I deal with the other recommended services that won't show up until the "15%" point is reached on the meter. If I keep resetting the meter at 5,000 miles or 50% (or whenever) when I change the oil, I might miss other services, right? There's no mileage or time figure listed for tire rotation, air cleaner replacement, etc. They are also run off the meter.
Thread Starter
|
New Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11
From: White Rock, BC Canada
I just had my first oil change today on my 09 Sport.
I had about 7200km and oil life of 70%.
It seemed weird that the mileage was so high and oil life was still at 70%, so I asked the dealer when to change it.
They said just bring it in, so I did.
After all was said and done, I received the paperwork on the service and noticed that it showed oil change (NO FILTER).
The great part was, the service was FREE.
But what the hell, no oil filter.
This service seems almost pointless, without a new filter.
Anyone else notice this?
I had about 7200km and oil life of 70%.
It seemed weird that the mileage was so high and oil life was still at 70%, so I asked the dealer when to change it.
They said just bring it in, so I did.
After all was said and done, I received the paperwork on the service and noticed that it showed oil change (NO FILTER).
The great part was, the service was FREE.
But what the hell, no oil filter.
This service seems almost pointless, without a new filter.
Anyone else notice this?
It's confirmed, all they did was change the oil.
The dealer advised that according to Honda Canada they only replace the filter every other change.
This seems to me to be far to long of an interval, especially on the first change when there are metal particles etc..
As for the oil life meter, I think it's a nice trinket.
I for one will change the oil at 5000km(3000miles), if using conventional or longer interval using sythetic.
As for all other scheduled maintenance items, they will be done at the suggested mileages, which can easily be seen on the odometer, without the aid of a little wrench light.
I would rather use common sense than rely on a computer to tell me when to change the oil, etc....
Also I will be properly performing the oil change service myself, including changing the filter.
I might even open up the original filter to check out the insides, and post up some pics.
Cheers to all.
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,371
From: NC USA
My Honda Fit service manual says on pg 3-7 that symbol B means "Replace engine oil and oill filter (see pg 8-7)"
No where does it say change oil filter every other oil change nor will you find it.
Go back to the dealer and ask him to change the filter too, or show where Honda said every other oil change in writing and if he can't and won't then complain to Honda in CA.
Every lubrication engineer knows the biggest problem with the little oil filters is limited space for containing contaminants filtered from the oil. And small filters help get full oil pressure quickly on a starting engine.
PS page 8-7 merely tells you how to change the filter, not when.
Good luck.
New Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9
From: canada
Its the type a that doesn't get the filter change
Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 93
From: Pennsylvania
The only way to figure out how long YOU should change YOUR oil is to get an oil analysis. Listening to people who think they know it all, or are going by the color of their oil, or even going by the meter, aren't the ones who are going to pay the bill when your engine needs rebuilt.
If you want to put it all to bed, get an oil analysis done. That will show how the oil is performing in YOUR engine under YOUR driving conditions and habits.
If you want to put it all to bed, get an oil analysis done. That will show how the oil is performing in YOUR engine under YOUR driving conditions and habits.
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 85
From: U.S.A.
A few things...
The maintenance minder DOES evaluate driving and environment conditions - even in the older Fits. There is information on it somewhere - I know I've seen it - it may be at the Honda Ownerlink site.
Here's one video that explains a little:
Maintenance Minder
I'm pretty sure that the schedule DOES call for the filter to be changed every other oil change - which really went against everything I believed at first, and I just couldn't get past the idea.
The Fit is one of the lowest "total cost of ownership" cars there is for sale today. Maintenance is a big part of that figure - and following the schedule (by the Maintenance Minder) - helps you get there.
The 3000-mile oil change "rule" does nto apply to the Fit - or pretty much any other late model Honda.
Save yourself money, and help protect the environment - by changing your oil when it needs to be changed (not before). Honda says the filter only has to be changed every other time - and I trust that Honda - who's reputation is built on reliability - is providing the best schedule that they can.
Oh - most important: LEAVE THE FACTORY FILL IN until the Maintenace Minder says to change your oil!!! (Says so in the manual). There IS an additive from the factory.
I've spent many a obsessed night - scouring the Internet on the topics of Honda's - maintenance minders, and factory-fill oil (so have a lot of other Honda owners). There are a ton of opinions - and only one source of direction - the manual. When in doubt - follow the owner's manual. It tells you not to change the oil the first time until the minder tells you - and it tells you to follow the minder schedule, which varies depending on your driving. Drive a great car, save time, money, and the planet - and let the experts (Honda) tell you how to best maintain their product.
***Disclaimer*** - I still haven't been able to skip an oil filter change - I do it every oil change. I think I'm instritutionalized to the point of having to change it with the oil every time. I also use Mobil-1 Extended Performance oil - which is probably overkill. I guess it's that "it the most expensive - so it must be the best" dogma...
The maintenance minder DOES evaluate driving and environment conditions - even in the older Fits. There is information on it somewhere - I know I've seen it - it may be at the Honda Ownerlink site.
Here's one video that explains a little:
Maintenance Minder
I'm pretty sure that the schedule DOES call for the filter to be changed every other oil change - which really went against everything I believed at first, and I just couldn't get past the idea.
The Fit is one of the lowest "total cost of ownership" cars there is for sale today. Maintenance is a big part of that figure - and following the schedule (by the Maintenance Minder) - helps you get there.
The 3000-mile oil change "rule" does nto apply to the Fit - or pretty much any other late model Honda.
Save yourself money, and help protect the environment - by changing your oil when it needs to be changed (not before). Honda says the filter only has to be changed every other time - and I trust that Honda - who's reputation is built on reliability - is providing the best schedule that they can.
Oh - most important: LEAVE THE FACTORY FILL IN until the Maintenace Minder says to change your oil!!! (Says so in the manual). There IS an additive from the factory.
I've spent many a obsessed night - scouring the Internet on the topics of Honda's - maintenance minders, and factory-fill oil (so have a lot of other Honda owners). There are a ton of opinions - and only one source of direction - the manual. When in doubt - follow the owner's manual. It tells you not to change the oil the first time until the minder tells you - and it tells you to follow the minder schedule, which varies depending on your driving. Drive a great car, save time, money, and the planet - and let the experts (Honda) tell you how to best maintain their product.
***Disclaimer*** - I still haven't been able to skip an oil filter change - I do it every oil change. I think I'm instritutionalized to the point of having to change it with the oil every time. I also use Mobil-1 Extended Performance oil - which is probably overkill. I guess it's that "it the most expensive - so it must be the best" dogma...
Thread Starter
|
New Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11
From: White Rock, BC Canada
[The only way to figure out how long YOU should change YOUR oil is to get an oil analysis. Listening to people who think they know it all, or are going by the color of their oil, or even going by the meter, aren't the ones who are going to pay the bill when your engine needs rebuilt.
If you want to put it all to bed, get an oil analysis done. That will show how the oil is performing in YOUR engine under YOUR driving conditions and habits. ]
If you want to put it all to bed, get an oil analysis done. That will show how the oil is performing in YOUR engine under YOUR driving conditions and habits. ]
I'd rather pay for oil and a filter a little more frequently than having to rebuild an engine earlier than necessary.
I still believe that the more frequently the oil is changed the longer the engine will last.
There is certainly no way it can hurt to change the oil & filter earlier, other than monetarily.
Being a person who has rebuilt a few honda engines, it's not so bad (except for down time).
however try to rebuild one in a weekend when it's your primary vehicle and you way to work on monday (been there, done that) I'd rather spend a few extra bucks on oil & a filter more often.
In the end, to each their own.
Last edited by rhecht; Jun 17, 2009 at 02:21 AM.
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,371
From: NC USA
Well, I'll be darned. So it does.
However, I've never seen a symbol A either. And not one engine lubrication engineer would accept that. Chalk another wives tale up to marketing. If saving $20 every 5000 miles is going to break your budget you shouldn't own a vehicle.
Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 70
From: Miami, Fl. USA
The factory fill oil is "special" it contains high amounts of moly to help break-in. I'm a tech at an Acura dealership and was one at Honda, there's actually a service bulletin explaining it because the oil tends to look dark and dealerships were changing it to early.
But I also don't agree with leaving the oil in there until the minder says to change it. Someone here had an oil analysis done on the oil from the first oil change that was done at 6K miles I think and the oil analysis company said it was a good time from what showed up in the oil.
Just because honda designed the maintenance schedule doesn't make it the best; there's lots of stuff they designed that has problems. I'd rather be safe than sorry.
But I also don't agree with leaving the oil in there until the minder says to change it. Someone here had an oil analysis done on the oil from the first oil change that was done at 6K miles I think and the oil analysis company said it was a good time from what showed up in the oil.
Just because honda designed the maintenance schedule doesn't make it the best; there's lots of stuff they designed that has problems. I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,371
From: NC USA
The factory fill oil is "special" it contains high amounts of moly to help break-in. I'm a tech at an Acura dealership and was one at Honda, there's actually a service bulletin explaining it because the oil tends to look dark and dealerships were changing it to early.
But I also don't agree with leaving the oil in there until the minder says to change it. Someone here had an oil analysis done on the oil from the first oil change that was done at 6K miles I think and the oil analysis company said it was a good time from what showed up in the oil.
Just because honda designed the maintenance schedule doesn't make it the best; there's lots of stuff they designed that has problems. I'd rather be safe than sorry.
But I also don't agree with leaving the oil in there until the minder says to change it. Someone here had an oil analysis done on the oil from the first oil change that was done at 6K miles I think and the oil analysis company said it was a good time from what showed up in the oil.
Just because honda designed the maintenance schedule doesn't make it the best; there's lots of stuff they designed that has problems. I'd rather be safe than sorry.
How about the TSB number and date.
My Type A minder just lit up today. I'm at 8400 miles. I've NEVER let a car run that long without changing the oil, but this is my first new car and since its under warranty I'll do what they asked so they have to fix it if necessary. From here on out, will change every 5k miles.
New Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9
From: canada
It was actually from a shop talk document for November 2006. This is the text from it:
At PDI, does the factory-fill engine oil seem abnormally dark? Don’t
worry, there’s nothing wrong with the engine. The engine oil looks
that way because of molybdenum (that’s “moly” for short), a special
lubricant applied by the factory to critical engine components during
assembly.
When the engine is test-run, that molybdenum mixes with the engine
oil, turning it a dark metallic colour often within the first 5
minutes of running. And just how dark that engine oil turns seems to
vary between vehicle models, engine types, and engine assembly plants.
What’s really important to remember here is this: Don’t change the
factory-fill engine oil because it looks dark; just make sure it’s at
the right fluid level. To ensure proper engine break-in, the
factory-fill engine oil needs to remain in the engine until the first
scheduled maintenance interval
Nov 30, 2006 issue no. 11-06
At PDI, does the factory-fill engine oil seem abnormally dark? Don’t
worry, there’s nothing wrong with the engine. The engine oil looks
that way because of molybdenum (that’s “moly” for short), a special
lubricant applied by the factory to critical engine components during
assembly.
When the engine is test-run, that molybdenum mixes with the engine
oil, turning it a dark metallic colour often within the first 5
minutes of running. And just how dark that engine oil turns seems to
vary between vehicle models, engine types, and engine assembly plants.
What’s really important to remember here is this: Don’t change the
factory-fill engine oil because it looks dark; just make sure it’s at
the right fluid level. To ensure proper engine break-in, the
factory-fill engine oil needs to remain in the engine until the first
scheduled maintenance interval
Nov 30, 2006 issue no. 11-06
Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 76
From: Sacramento, CA
Well,
I did my first oil change recently, my mileage was a bit under 1800miles, the car said 70%. I bought the car 6 months ago, so I thought it would be a good time. I don't drive the Fit much and the I thought the oil was sitting long enough in the car. I know about the high moly break in oil but at the rate I'm driving, I didn't feel comfortable leaving in the factory oil for about a year. I switched the oil to 0w-20 mobil 1 and the mobil 1 filter. There's a sale going on at autozone for $30 for 5Q with filter and then the $10 rebate from mobil for the 0w-20, so $20+tax, not a bad deal.
The one thing which is very subjective is that I think the car quieted down after the oil change. In the mornings when I first start the car up, I get to my first stop light and the car rumbles pretty loud. I really think the engine noise did go down but then again, people claim these things all the time.
I did my first oil change recently, my mileage was a bit under 1800miles, the car said 70%. I bought the car 6 months ago, so I thought it would be a good time. I don't drive the Fit much and the I thought the oil was sitting long enough in the car. I know about the high moly break in oil but at the rate I'm driving, I didn't feel comfortable leaving in the factory oil for about a year. I switched the oil to 0w-20 mobil 1 and the mobil 1 filter. There's a sale going on at autozone for $30 for 5Q with filter and then the $10 rebate from mobil for the 0w-20, so $20+tax, not a bad deal.
The one thing which is very subjective is that I think the car quieted down after the oil change. In the mornings when I first start the car up, I get to my first stop light and the car rumbles pretty loud. I really think the engine noise did go down but then again, people claim these things all the time.