^we think this oil could easily exceed 15,000 miles and thats a GD






Just to scare the OP,

Originally Posted by rhyneba
If no one else has said it here, Honda recommends NOT to change the oil until the Maintenance Minder wrench illuminates at 15% oil life remaining. If oil changes are done too early fuel economy, oil consumption and engine performance may be compromised. As a senior service advisor at a dealer, we have seen nearly all newer vehicles that have either oil consumption issues or lower than average fuel economy numbers to have had an oil change done at 3000 miles or less. The Honda engineering teams we talk to on the phone say that until a small amount of breakdown occurs in the oil the break-in does not occur correctly, if rings don't seat within a certain amount of time from new it is likely they will not ever seat correctly.

 

Lyon...I don't disbelieve you. My question is, when someone goes into a Honda dealer and asks about this, they just say: "because Honda says so". No explanation, no anything. If the info were better communicated to the owners, there would be less confusion.

 

Because that's what Honda recommends. Generally speaking, I have found the owner's manual a better source of information than internet forums.

 

Ask a Camry owner who had their engine sludge or a VW 1.8T owner who's had coking in the turbo lines (or thrown a timing belt prior to the recommended change interval) if the manufacturer recommendations/intervals are always appropriate.

An ounce of prevention...

 

So you are willing to risk thousands of dollars of damage to your engine, just to save $7 on a new oil filter because you wanted to follow Honda's recommendations? I find it funny how you trust the same device the gives faulty mpg readings, and counts excessive miles. Better safe than sorry I say. I have never seen a damaged engine from having clean fresh oil and new oil filteres. Its your car, do whatever you want with it.

 

Haha, well I should make it clear I don't think changing your oil frequently will damage the car at all. I also don't think waiting till MM hits 15% is bad at all. I too change my filter at every change and use full synthetic. Even on the first oil change it shouldn't be too bad to change early, my rings seated within the first 500 miles as I never had any measurable decrease in oil. However, I have heard stories on the forum of people burning oil well past the first 5000 miles. I definetly would not change the oil until there is no oil consumption or the MM hits 15%. Besides, we probably shouldn't be so dogmatic

 

I called Honda customer service yesterday. Got to a second level guy, and explained my concern, which was that my Fits' pre-delivery check was done 11/18/08. I purchased it on 12/14/09, so the oil had been it there over a year, and the manual recommends changing oil after a year. I only have 1000 mi. on the odometer. I wanted him to approve an oil change and a refill with break-in oil. He explained that the break-in oil is put in at the factory and is not available to dealers. So I asked him"What would YOU do?" A long pause.....He said "I'd probably change the oil at 50% on the maintenance minder instead of 15%". Seeing as my minder had been going down by 10% at each fill-up(now at 60% after 4 fill-ups) it gave me pause, as I had read that, contrary to popular belief, a certain amount of break down of the oil is necessary for proper break-in. Also, Honda cautions against premature changing of the break-in oil.

Being a baker, by profession, I am well aware of the oxidation that takes place with oil. This is what worried me. This morning I called Blackstone Labs, a company that tests oil, to see what their thoughts on this situation would be. After my explanation, the gentleman gave a thoughtful response to all of the points I brought up.

1. Car companies take into account that new cars sit on dealers lots for long periods of time and put additives in the break-in oil to prevent oxidation. Rancidity that's takes place in food grade oils just does not apply.

2. Being that it is a Honda engine, follow their instructions in the manual because Honda makes some of the best engines in the automotive industry.

3. Both engines and oils have changed significantly in a relatively short period of time and the old rules simply do not apply anymore.


I will be waiting until the minder hits 20% before my oil gets changed.

 

That would give me pause too. A 10% drop per fillup is fast, to me. It takes me a lot longer than that to drop 10%, dare I guess upwards of 1,000 miles. Maybe the minder dropping so quickly is telling you something- the oil ain't great anymore. However, I'd be inclined to let the MM tell me when it's done. All I know is my MM is following my oil life very well, all things considered. Frankly, I trust it considering it's behavior. Good luck.

Dan

 

It seems that I was faced with a "perfect storm" far as oil stress is concerned. I picked up the Fit 12/14/09. I let it warm up completely, on winter blend gas, and drive 5 minutes to work. I've come to understand that these short low speed trips cause the highest stress on oil as well as the worst gas mileage and that has certainly been the case. On my latest tank, I'm getting 29 mpg, which is by far the best yet. My expectation is that with the longer, higher speed driving that I've been doing lately the minder won't be going down quite so fast. If that bears out, it would seem that the maintenance minder is working perfectly.

 

I'm in the same boat as you here. My daily trips to work round trip is only a mere 20 miles- no highway. I just went through an extreme winter too. I get between 30 and 33 mpgs city, depending on how much fun I want to have zipping around. But this is why at 6,100 miles I'm at 20% oil life. I expect a couple more 80 mile trips on the highway will push me to 15% and then I'll get it changed. But like I said, considering my driving profile I'm comfortable with the MM being accurate. No hard facts mind you, but it seems quite reasonable how it's tracking me.

Dan

 

It's your car and do whatever makes you feel better. Whatever problem that might come up or won't come up, your brain will associate or disassociate to fit your preconceptions anyway.

My only useful 2cents is that if you're in the "follow the mm" crowd, why are you changing at 15%.

If you believe that Honda has done their homework, you might as well go down all the way to 0%. I don't see the logic in stopping at 15% other than you let nervousness and the change at 50% crowd get to you. You're likely already using an oil superior (syn) then the minimum required, in addition to the leeway that Honda already puts into their intervals.

My dealer during delivery actually gave us a crib sheet with some of these things, the main ones he highlighted as you can go down to 0% and that you have a timing chain (no belt change needed). I guess this was a dealership that is "honest" and not out to pad his wallet unnecessary maintenance.

 

The term "garbage" here seems to have set everyone off. I can see why someone would say the MM is garbage and why someone would be pissed off that they said it.

In any event, I've taken the MM down to 0% before on a couple of my oil changes so I will let you guys know if I have any engine problems down the line. So far I'm only at 65k. (And averaging 33MPG w/ AT)

I'm with QBMurderer on one thing, though, what's the point in NOT changing the filter when you do your first oil change??? Is it really plausible there could be a reason? That's one thing that just seems too silly to follow the MM by, considering the cost is so minimal.

Also, the people who change oil more frequently, are you changing it yourself??? That could have something to do with the differing attitudes. When you start doing the work yourself you get more of a dope reward from your brain and might feel like doing it more often. Haha, I don't know, that could be a stretch!

 

Secondspassed. One of the few times I agree with you. I change my own oil, and it takes about 10 minutes on the Fit. Full synthetic and a GOOD filter, and the cost is less than $25. Yeah, I do get a reward in doing it myself. Dealer wants $65.

 

My dealer/salesman didn't discuss this with me.
I was just thinking today that I wished he would have.

 

I used MM for this change with M1 0W20 and it took me out to right around 10,500. No worries. Look at those wear levels in that UOA. This little engine's pretty smooth on oil. Found a bucketload of old stock M1 5W20 EP on closeout. Using that for the current fill. Oil is not a worry with this car. After a couple of SAABs, wanting to worry less about oil was one reason I got this car. You should see my oil bunker...

And to the OP, the break-in oil is fairly high in moly, either b/c it's "special" or b/c of assembly lube. The internals were sufficiently coated for the time they needed to be. That moly isn't all going to instantly shed the second you change the oil anyway.

 

Hi guys,

The Brazilian Fit does not have a MM.

So, what Honda says about oil change? The use manual says to change oil each 10,000km (about 6,250mi) in normal condition and at 5,000km (3,125mi) in severe conditions. And it says severe conditions are when you drive in short distances (engine does not heat in full), heavy traffic (1st and 2nd gear all times), etc...
The manual says to NOT use syntetic, and to change oil filter each 10,000km.

I will stick with changes at each 5,000 (3,125mi) and will change filter too. I think that not changing filter every oil change is like having lunch in a clean dish, but using a dirty fork.

If you want to change oil earlier than recomended, there is absolutely NO problem; your engine will like it and will last long. The oposite is not recomended and your engine will not live long.

 

Aye Honda does recommend shorter intervals for non-european non-us markets.

 

My MM is now nagging me at 15%. I could go the distance true, but I suspect it'll drop more rapidly now so I'll be doing an OC shortly.

Dan

 

I think the oil recomendation is the same. Honda oil 10W30 SL. Can you confirm?
But as our gasoline is not so good as yours, and it is mixed with 18% of alcohol, this could be the reason for shorter intervals.
The fact that our engine can use gas or alcohol in any proportion can be one more reason for that.
But Honda DO NOT recomend syntetic oil here.

 

To be honest, I think it's just that 5000km and 10000km is easier to remember than 8000km and 16000km!