Hey there,

I'm thinking it's time to do a tune up for my 2013 Fit which has 50k. Currently running a manual tranny... what does everyone recommend.

So far have done:
Oil
Alignment
Recall
Air Filter
Cabin Filter

I've noticed slight bumps at stop lights which makes me think I'm skipping, in addition noticed some longer start times in the morning. Also trying to run down some other inconsistent noises coming from the engine that I'm not sure are related to the needed tune up or that I'm using a synth oil during the summer.

Do any of you think a valve check /tranny flush is worthwhile at this stage?

 

A slight vibration is normal, especially with summer blends out now. This will also increase start times due to the lower volatility of the fuel. And, if it were missing, it would be throwing codes (check engine light) as this is a huge emissions hit and is easily detectible by the onboard computer (crankshaft speed sensor).

Valves don't require inspection until beyond 100K going by the MM. If you feel competent to check these yourself, let us know your findings. Honda will charge $400 to inspect; it really isn't cost effective. Plugs are 100K iridium tipped. There is no timing belt. Enjoy it; buy it a treat.

Many feel the urge to double or triple the maintenance on these cars. If you do, knock yourself out. I'm cruising to 100K on oil changes and filters as called for by the MM.

 

Thanks Steve.

Doesn't the fit have a timing chain? Any thoughts on when the most appropriate time to do that?

W/r/t to the bumps, there is a slight noise that I'm concerned about. Doesn't seem to sync with the engine 100% maybe it's coming from the driver side of the engine. I can hear it more on the bottom of the car moreso than peeking under the hood. Maybe some kind of pump or something, not sure. Figured I'd start with a premature oil change back to synth-blend instead of 100% full synth. Perhaps a thicker oil in the summer time might be better.

 

Usually timing chains do not need service. Change it only when the engine is torn down
for other services, like a rebuild.


Clifton

 

check your brake pads, and replace brake fluid if it hasn't been done yet.

 

brake pads have audible wear sensors. They make a metallic grinding sound when then get down to 2MM. Service limit is 1.6mm (they start out at about 10mm). Visual inspection isn't necessary unless they've been replaced with aftermarket pads that don't have the wear tabs.

Brake fluid replacement schedule is 3 years (there's no mileage component).

 

I agree with Steve. I have an '11 Sport auto. I have the oil changed at 10-15% on the MM. Usually 8k miles or so. It doesn't use any oil. I have replaced the engine and cabin air filters a couple of times. It's going in for the first brake job (rotors , pads and fluid replacement) this week at 105K. Lowest cost car to maintain I have ever owned.

 

My OEM pads didn't make noise and they were pretty worn...

 

they have to be less than 2mm for the "wear sensor" to make contact. It's really just a metal tab that contacts the rotors when there is still 2mm left. It's quite annoying if you get to that point, but there's no danger of damaging the rotors as the service limit is 1.6mm.

1MM of material is about 7,500 miles of use for an average driver. Honda started telling me to change them with over 4mm left. I stopped going to them. A year later I swapped them myself for about $40 for OE pads (vs $250 they quoted me). Aftermarket are about $20.

 

The issue is if you have a problem with your brakes, the inspection can help show it, before you get annoying screech. As well as having some idea of where you stand with pad wear, if it is even wear, and how long it takes to wear.

On my 2009, for whatever reason, the pads started grinding at 25k miles and resulted in needing pad/rotor replacement. This was because a pad was dragging or a sticky caliper. If this were examined sooner, the problem would have been caught and corrected.

Even if you do 1 "unneccessary" brake check every 50k miles i don't think you're getting taken to the cleaners in the grand scheme of things.

 

yah, just look at the pads instead of relying on the wear indicators...

 

I agree completely, but relying on Honda (or another shop) to inspect as a regular maintenance item will result in more frequent pad changes than necessary. They will advise changes with 20% or more of life left. With the premium they charge for pad replacement, $250 for what should be a $100 job, be wary.

I do my own tire rotations and measure the remaining brake material both front and back (and take notes!) carefully, using calipers and a metal ruler. I also note the condition of rotor and drum surfaces. But the majority of owners don't do this themselves. If you're unable to do inspections yourself, everything else being normal, I'd wait for the audible wear sensors to make noise.

 

Good point, but if you're so suspicious that that mechanic is is ripping you off, then that same mechanic has already taking you to the cleaners on all the other service you went to them to, so you're arguing a bit of a moot point that all mechanics are shady.

So make the assumption that you at least spent some time and found an honest mechanic who will do this for free for you or just $15 whilst they rotate your tires (and not charge you $99 to rotate tires either).
And assume they'll charge you a fair price $100 to change brake pads and aren't gouging you.

 

at 50k miles, my car will be getting another change of transmission fluid, front and rear brakes will be taken apart and cleaned, while re-lubricating the front caliper's guide pins, and visual checks all over the chassis and suspension.

do NOT forget to do a visual check on your brakes. Just because it has a wear-tab that makes noise when pad life is very low, it does not tell you if a caliper is getting sticky and wearing down one pad more then the other.


I disassemble my calipers and grease the guide pins every 25k miles, or every other oil change, whenever I have time.


One thing people forget to do is to suck out the brake fluid out of the master cylinder, adn replace it with fresh fluid. This tends to prevent the need to do a full brake system bleed. 60-70% of your fluid is in that reservoir, and simply changing that out once or twice a year keeps your brake system fresh and free of contaminates (and water. system is not 100% air tight)

 

I'm not arguing that all mechanics are shady.

A mechanic that says you need pads with over 20% usable material left is looking after his profits and not your safety. I don't think any would tell you to let it go another year. Does this make them shady? No, just businessmen looking to maximize profits. As a consumer you have the choice of going along with this or making your own decisions. Using the feature Honda (and most manufacturer's) designed into brake pads to make awful noises a few thousand miles before they need replacing is cost effective.

Doing your own tire rotations and inspections is better, but not everyone has the facility, tools, and knowledge to do this.

Do what for free? Inspect brakes? yeah they do this for free when they rotate the tires. Tire rotation is about $30 at Ed Voyles (the ones that told me I needed $250 pads with a year wear left on the ones on the car). Nothing is free.


Honda put the wear sensors on there for a reason. It's not necessary to grease the caliper guides more often then changing pads. It's not cost effective to have the dealer or another mechanic inspect them: just wait for the wear sensors to sound if you're not doing it yourself.

Replacing the brake fluid in the reservoir does not replace the fluid in the system. It doesn't circulate. Flushing the fluid every 3 years is required (read your manual).

 

While replacing the brake fluid in the reservoir can't do harm (if done competently), I disagree that it will make much of a difference. Since brake fluid does not circulate like engine or auto transmission fluid...It sits in the brake lines and moves minisculey each time the brakes are applied. Replacing the top fluid could well get rid of some condensation water in the reservoir...but not deep in the brake lines. That clean new fluid will stay in the reservoir or move a little bit into the lines as your pads wear and the brake pistons have to push a bit further for pads to contact your rotors. Any contamination like water vapor or foreign objects will remain in the lines...until a real flush is done, putting new fluid in the reservoir and pumping old fluid out at the 4 wheels. THEN the 'bad stuff' gets pushed out...and don't let the reservoir get near empty while doing this, or you can introduce air into the lines. But...if you think it will help prolong fluid life, by all means do it.

On the other hand, replacing the auto transmission fluid that will drain from the transmission is a different thing. You will only get a portion of the AT fluid to drain, but each time you do worn comes out and is replaced by new, that then mixes with the rest. So over repeated changes like that without a full flush WILL help your transmission...

And with all that...I have felt tremendous increases in effective braking and brake pedal feel when I have completely flushed the brakes until new clear fluid is coming out at the wheel cylinders...part of my routine done each time I buy a new-to-me used car or motorcycle. In a few cases I paid reduced price for a used 10-15 year old car as the owner (and I a few times) thought it "needed brakes"...but a full flush of fluid restored proper operation, and the pads rotors and drums still had plenty of meat.

 

>A mechanic that says you need pads with over 20% usable material left is >looking after his profits and not your safety. I don't think any would tell you >to let it go another year. ...

I'm not a professional mechanic. But for over 20 years I kept my, my kids', and other relatives and friends' cars going. On my own and my kids' cars I wouldn't blink at 20% brake life left.

But the further removed from my core family, the closer I was to replacing pads with more meat left on them...as I was not sure how long the driver might go before having them checked again. And I didn't want to hear 6 months or even a year later that "my brakes failed and you said they were fine" from anyone...and never did.

I guess potential liability may factor in, besides profits, when pros recommend replacements a bit prematurely.

 

honda doesnt make those pads. wear indicators are required in all OEM equipped vehicles. Aftermarket companies dont need to meet that standard.


Changing the fluid in the reservoir does indeed replace fluid in the system. if you have a brake system that has been untouched for 3 years and has accumulated a 4% water containment, removing over half the fluid with fresh fluid ready to absorb more moisture WILL indeed help. The fresh fluid will contact the old stuff and start absorbing some of its water contents.

It is easier to notice this process on clutch systems. Find a car with nasty black fluid. Suck out the reservoir and fill with fresh, and then go pump the pedal a few dozen times. That fresh fluid will look pretty nasty after those few dozen pedal pumps.


Or has Honda decided to stop following the rules of physics?

If you are still in doubt, go to a local shop that promotes their brake service as most of their profits. Its too easy to ask a question, they will give you an answer. They may deny it if they are too greedy, seeing as they would loose business if everyone knew a $5 turkey baster and a $6 bottle of fluid prevents you from a 2-3 year cycle and instead can move to a 4-5 year cycle.

By NO MEANS am I saying my method removes the need to do a total system flush. That is something that should still be done, yet I would wager less then 5% of all drivers even care enough about their vehicles to do so.

 

Except for those wear indicators, I'd agree with you.

What's annoying is aftermarket pads don't have them, so if you get them done at some shop that charges a reasonable amount, you're hooked into visual inspections.

 

On the positive side, I just got my brakes done at just under 50k miles, so the next brake job will be the next owner's problem because I don't figure to keep the car another four years. After keeping my last few cars a very long time, I will want something new in a couple of years, for a change.