2nd Generation (GE 08-13) 2nd Generation specific talk and questions here.

09 Fit using oil

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Old Dec 14, 2015 | 12:45 AM
  #21  
ezone's Avatar
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From: Digging in your fridge
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Originally Posted by Mister Coffee
You're talking about oil from the crank case that gets by the rings?
Yes.
I'm talking about oil that is used to lubricate and cool the valve train.
Cam and rocker arms don't consume oil.
Rubber valve stem seals only let a miniscule amount of oil past into the guides, relatively insignificant amounts of oil loss and stem seals are rarely ever a problem these days even at high mileages.
Valves themselves are not really cooled by oil. Metal to metal contact--heat transfer through the valve guide and seat is how the heat is removed.



maybe you can tell me why the valve lifters on my '13 Fit engine make more racket than a Tito Puente album, even though it only has 23k miles on it.
In warranty? Ask your dealer why it's so noisy.

Is it really unusually noisy?
Is it valves, or is it injectors?
Or is it something else entirely?
I cannot verify what you hear from my recliner....and this laptop is lousy at reproducing engine noises from youtube videos.

The valvetrain has no hydraulic lifters, valve clearances are manually adjusted.
It's possible they are not correctly adjusted. Doesn't seem very likely especially at that low mileage, but I've seen weirder things on occasion over the years.



Say, if you're so smart.....

Don't be afraid to offer your opinion . . . I'm wearing mink-lined undershorts and a tennis visor signed by Jimmy Connors.
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night....
 
Old Dec 14, 2015 | 01:42 AM
  #22  
Mister Coffee's Avatar
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Posts: 1,627
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Originally Posted by ezone
Yes ... oil past into the guides, relatively insignificant amounts of oil loss
That's what I meant.

Originally Posted by ezone
In warranty? Ask your dealer why it's so noisy.
You mean ask him a fifth time? A sixth? Or ask American Honda to open another, and then another, numbered case file?

Originally Posted by ezone
Is it really unusually noisy?
Nah. I just like talking to you.

Originally Posted by ezone
Is it valves, or is it injectors?
Or is it something else entirely?
That's what I keep saying.

Originally Posted by ezone
I cannot verify what you hear from my recliner....and this laptop is lousy at reproducing engine noises from youtube videos.

The valvetrain has no hydraulic lifters, valve clearances are manually adjusted.
It's possible they are not correctly adjusted. Doesn't seem very likely especially at that low mileage, but I've seen weirder things on occasion over the years.
Manually adjusted. You mean by hand, huh? Gee, they make the darnedest things these days.

Originally Posted by ezone
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night....
That's nothing. I stayed at a Holiday Inn (Local, not Express) in Phoenix in 1975. Imagine any place you have ever been. Then, subtract everything that's there, and you got Phoenix in 1975.
 
Old Dec 18, 2015 | 08:09 PM
  #23  
gruenes's Avatar
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 19
From: Bozeman
09 Has always used oil since it was new

My 2009 Fit has 120k miles on it and it has always used oil. I do notice that if I drive it hard...RPM's up a lot it will go through it faster than if I take it easy. driving hard it uses about a qt every 8k miles...otherwise about a half qt between oil changes.
 
Old Dec 23, 2015 | 08:52 PM
  #24  
J N Winkler's Avatar
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 11
From: Wichita, Kansas
As I understand it, it is increasingly common for automakers to use low-tension rings to reduce ring drag, which is one of the biggest sources of power output loss in an internal combustion engine (up to one-quarter of rated output, according to sources I have read). This increases MPG and decreases CAFE liability. However, low-tension rings coke up more readily, especially in the presence of heat and low-quality oil, and that in turn causes progressive oil consumption.

In some car models (e.g. the long out-of-production Saturn S-Series), the coking problem is exacerbated by a combination of high specific output and poor oil drainback at the pistons. There is also a tendency among automakers to engineer in poor drainback to compensate for the higher likelihood of film strength failure (leading to metal-to-metal contact) with low-quality low-viscosity oils. In the Saturn S-Series, the designers deliberately omitted piston drainback holes because 5W-30 oil was considered novel and not reliably capable of forming strong films except in synthetic formulations.

The Honda Fit has high specific output and sales in the US straddle the EPA-mandated changeover from 5W-30 to 5W-20 oil in model year 2007. Therefore it does not surprise me that many Fit owners are reporting oil consumption and in fact I suspect the family 2009 Fit Sport is burning oil--perhaps as much as one-half to one full quart between changes. I have changed the oil today and am planning to track the oil level over this drain interval to establish an oil consumption baseline.

I do not agree that it is acceptable for an engine to burn any oil, because oil consumption due to coked-up rings is inherently a disease that becomes progressively worse with heat and cheap oil. I would advise owners of oil-burning Fits to limit heat transfer to oil by using extra-long filters and keeping the crankcase slightly overfull at all times. I wouldn't use conventional oil in these cars at all, though I don't have the data to justify the added expense of a boutique API Group IV/V full synthetic oil compared to the "Walmart synthetics" like Mobil 1 Extended Performance, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, etc.

Some cases of oil consumption can be reversed through piston soaks using strong chemicals like Kreen or Berryman Chem-Dip, but it is a complete crapshoot whether those work in any given case, the risk of bearing damage is not insignificant, and improvements in oil consumption are not necessarily permanent even if good oils are subsequently used and strict crankcase filling protocols are followed.

Manufacturer statements along the lines of "oil consumption of up to one quart per X miles" are only attempts to establish a negotiating position with the customer base. The tradeoff is generally between short-term profit and reputational loss. The acceptable-consumption guidelines themselves bear only the most tenuous relationship to engineering criteria. As an example, Saturn defined the acceptable limit of oil consumption in the S-Series as one quart per two thousand miles, while the TSB laying out possible solutions to the oil consumption problem established one quart per fifteen hundred miles as the breakpoint between piston soaks and disassembling the engine to replace the rings and re-hone the cylinders.
 
Old Apr 21, 2017 | 01:36 PM
  #25  
dwtaylorpdx's Avatar
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,465
From: Portland Or
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Low tension rings absolutely like synthetic, there are some differences between Mobile 1 and some others but for a well maintained car the differences likely matter very little.

The difference between a 0w20 and a 5W20 or 5w30 is pretty small especially if your running a synthetic and not running in cold or hot weather..

You should also consider that the engine with low tension rings also has different clearances in the bearings of the crank/cam/rods, so switching to a radically thicker oil can have multiple affects over the longer term, closing rings an insufficient oil flow through bearings.. Sometimes it will raise pressure int eh pump and ht relief will open so you getting less volume through the system with a heavy oil (IE 20w50 instead of 5w30... )

Your driving style and how hard you flog the engine is probably the biggest impact..

If you look at some of my pics in the Cylinder head tour that engine was spotless internally and had been honda serviced with their synthetic since new..
 
Old Jun 4, 2021 | 10:16 AM
  #26  
Judith Marie Neuling's Avatar
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 2
From: Lakeland Florida
2010 Honda Fit sport

My Honda Fit sport 2010 has 590000 miles on it and I burn 1 quart every 5000 miles is this pretty normal
 
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