Mechanics and people that know things about cars:
I'm trying to figure out what to do and would love insight.

I have the option to repair my car for about $3000
or
not sink anything more into it and look at getting another car.

So I've been dealing with issues with my 2015 Honda fit, 143,000 miles, for the last 4 years due to a crappy new design on DI fuel injectors. I'm not a car expert but I like to know things about what I'm driving and what not.
So the original direct input fuel injectors sprayed poorly and gunked up the rail and injectors. Plus Honda had left over manufacturing gunk on the rail that some people believed hurt the engine. I had to pay about $1600 to get new injectors and of course it all comes in a kit that only Honda sells. On forums I saw that owners were having to replace them as early as 20,000 to 40,000 miles. 😮
They finally recalled the injectors a few years later and reimbursed me but I believe it has done damage to my car.

1. The carbon build up was so bad in my engine that it caused my car to almost fail on the highway and that was another $600 to get it walnut cleaned lol

2. Now the timing chain has elongated and is coming off. And will cost around $2800 to repair and Honda can't find the parts needed. I researched it a bit and found that the carbon or soot build up that occurs with the improper mixture in the cylinder from the direct input injectors can gunk up, come out and hit the chain causing it to warp or elongate. My car smells lean and the oil has been so ridiculously black even after an oil change (the black oil was before I got the carbon cleaning so I'm not sure if that's still a thing) The dealer told me this wasn't possible bc the injectors are on the inside and would not affect the outside chain but they work for Honda which doesn't seem to want to take responsibility for these injectors being poorly designed and the earth dreams engine letting too much carbon emissions go back into the engine.
I was under the impression that the timing chain usually lasts the life of the car unless there's unusual wear and tear or infrequent oil changes and I have kept up on oil changes.

I'm worried that if I do sink more money into this car that someone else will go bad due to that bad injectors/carbon build up.
I'm getting a second opinion right now but I need to get it fixed or figure it out asap because this is the only car I have access to for work.
So should I stay or should I go ?

Thank you for your thoughts❤️

 

How do you know the timing chain is "coming off"? Did someone inspect the chain tensioner? that's literally the only way to confirm (and it's not an easy process).
If that were the case, your engine would fall out of timing, leading to the valves crashing into the pistons and ruining the engine.
This scenario sounds highly unlikely...but possible if the oil isn't changed regularly enough.

Also, what's your oil change interval (how often are you changing it?).
As oil ages, it loses it's ability to protect engine components (chain included).
With the DI setup of these engines, several (including myself) are reducing our change interval drastically from what Honda recommends.

As tempting as it might be to dump it, I'm not sure how much you paid for it, but to replace it with someone equivalent will cost you much more than the cost of having your current car fixed.

 

I had the Honda service/dealership diagnose and tell me this after a few lights on the dashboard came on and I ran the code and it came up as camshaft position sensor. It has had regular oil changes/I changed it when the dash said it needed and oil change (I think it turns on at 20%)

 

Kelly, I think the problem with GK5 Fits is that if you use non-Top Tier fuel, you run into all kinds of problems. My previous generation Fit (GD3, '08 Sport) didn't have this sensitivity; I ran non-Top Tier all the time with no issues.

We've had reports here of extreme carbon fouling in GK5 Fits with as little as 10,000 miles. I'll guess that the majority of those are from running regular (i.e.,, non-Top Tier) fuel.

Seems that the difference in carbon buildup is something like 20 times greater when you run non-Top Tier.

Now I'm guessing that you didn't run Top Tier fuel for the life of the engine. That means that carbon buildup could be severe, as the dealer notes.

Since the damage is already done, I say walk away.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is what I'm seeing.

 

My mechanic said to expect a timing chain job at around 100K and that it would be expensive. I'm at 68K at 8.5 years.
years.

I also agree that Top Tier gas must be used. It's clearly in the manual. I've used nothing but once when I was almost out. My car runs very well. Of course, I can't see inside the engine.

 

The fuel quality is a big part, also how you drive it. Most Fits are city cars, where they're driven very little and not very hard. Those get carbon buildup the worst. You don't see it as badly on higher mileage cars (of course with the caveat of fuel quality as you mentioned). My 15 is closing in on 100k. Gonna have to pull the manifold off and walnut blast it soon. I'll try to remember to take before and after pics. Mine is driven ~20-30 miles a day and sees a lot of spirited driving. Oil has always been golden brown, but I change it every 3k on the dot (overkill, but I get my oil for free). I would definitely second avoiding extended oil changes on anything with direct injection. I wouldn't even use the oil life monitor, I'd just do it every 4-5k.

The GD3 and GE8 used good old port injection (far better than direct injection for 99% of daily uses), so the carbon buildup is pretty unique to the GK5s. With port injection, the fuel washes the intake valves off, preventing excess carbon buildup, even if you run shitty fuel. Direct injection definitely requires more care to be taken with preventative maintenance. And in this case, buying top tier fuel IS preventative maintenance.

Timing chains are also more sensitive to oil quality than belts. Extended oil change intervals will cause premature failure. A chain should go 250-300k minimum before needing replacement if properly maintained and good quality guides and tensioners are used. For example, I had a 2009 Mazdaspeed 3. The guides in those were known to fail around 150k just due to bad design. Sold mine at ~160k with a bit of slop in the chain. On the other hand, I had a 2002 Subaru Outback with the EZ30D H6 where I replaced the original chain at 268k. That's much more in line with what I'd expect if the oil was changed when it should've been. And yeah, chains are expensive. The parts for the Subaru alone were $5-600 for OEM parts (it's a pain to get to, I wasn't gonna chance aftermarket parts) and required a lot of teardown to access. Book time is probably 8-10 hours, which will add another $1000-1500 to the bill. Granted chains are much easier to access on Hondas, and it's more like a 4-6 hour job. Still not cheap tho. Another thing to keep in mind is that basically all direct injection engines suffer from oil dilution in some quantity. This is probably what they meant.

Given both of these are happening at the same time, replacement may be the more feasible option. Just pay very close attention to the service history on whatever you buy next (unless you buy new, in which case always use the severe service interval as your baseline for maintenance).

 

So I just bought a 2017 Fit with 77K miles on it,

How often would you recommend changing oil?

Huh, I had read on here about people using only top tier fuel, but only in a hand wavy "it's better" way. Didn't know there was a concrete issue like that. Any other things a new fit owner should be aware of?

 

The new GF6a (API SP) oils which have been on the shelf now for almost 2 years were specifically created to provide better timing chain wear protection (among other things). I'm pretty sure every major oil manufacturer conforms to this spec now. The car companies aren't very forthcoming but I assume there must have been a shortcoming in the previous generations of oil we were using - including some kind of a timing chain lubrication issue..

 

I'd recommend every 6 months or 3k miles, whichever occurs first.
That's what I follow and my oil is always a soft golden amber "honey" hue when changing.
The longer the oil is run, the more likely it'll end up in the PCV system and on the back of the intake valves.
Changing it early is another method of keeping the valves clean (in addition to top tier fuel - I also run 91 octane).

 

Clearly it's not doing a good enough job since it's a routine thing across manufacturers. The problem is more so that modern engines with their timing chains, turbos, and direct injection all at once are simply not made for extended oil changes. Hence the repeated timing chain (and also turbo in many cases) failure at 100-150k miles. The best defense will always be shorter oil change intervals.

 

I'm not aware of any widespread reliability problems with timing chains. Quite the opposite. For a long time manufacturers mover away from timing chains to belts for cost and noise reasons. Now they've pretty much moved back to timing chains because the long term reliability and durability is so much greater in spite of the higher cost.

 

It's actually quite a common thing these days. Timing chains being replaced at 100-150k. I agree that it isn't normal, but I lay the blame with extended oil change intervals rather than the chains themselves. No part can withstand poor maintenance forever.

 

I decided to keep putting money in the fit because I love it so much but the guide for the chain is on national back order and the dealership has my auto mechanic in a line of over 200 people. I was thinking about looking at savages for parts but if anyone has any idea about how to get a part I would love advice so I don't drive this car into the grind waiting for the part. Right now the check engine light went off and it's running really well.

 

Good to hear on your decision.
In the meantime, I can only suggest you change your oil frequently until you find a solution to the tensioner issue.

 

The Honda dealership let me leave with low oil when they said it was in good condition and full. The second opinion mechanic that I drive straight to after leaving the Honda dealership said it was a quart and a half low on oil. Which they said was really low. My oil life was at 50%, it had no leaks, and I got it changed right before I took it in for the carbon cleaning in November. I think the dealership didn't check my oil both times and that's what messed up the timing chain based on what the second mechanic said.

 

Just another reason I strongly suggest folks with a FIT avoid the dealerships and do basic maintenance themselves.
These are literally the simplest to understand and maintain vehicles on the road in North America these days.

 

As a Honda tech myself, I never let anything leave without the oil being on the dipstick. I get this a lot with 2008-2012 cars, mostly Accords and CR-Vs with the K24 since they like to burn oil if not maintained well.

But I can't say the same for everyone. I definitely second the thought of more people being able to do at least basic maintenance. The Fit is about as simple and straightforward to service as any modern car can get. Short of maybe the injectors (I don't think it's a hard job, but I can see why some would be intimidated if they've never serviced the fuel system on a car with direct injection), everything is very accessible.

 

Define this term please.

 

Get rid of the car. Fall in love with something else.

 

This is a subject of endless and relentless debate. What it always comes down to is that cheap people say you don't have to change your oil that often. For them, oil is a cost issue, not a car issue. Car lovers say change the oil and the filter every 3,000 miles.