Howdy folks, hope this finds you well.

I am posting this today to warn of something concerning I've found for the GK5. Recently here in PA it's become quite cold some nights 40F and under. What I've noticed is my catalytic converter is now having efficiency problems (started around 188,000 miles) when I started running at night during camp outs. I took a look at my scanner and sure enough, the car runs rich and has trouble keeping warm under 40F it seems, so it may be wise to minimize idling in this range and lower to keep the catalytic converter from becoming loaded. I know some of the older Insights had the same issue, but wanted to save you all the hassle- especially with CARB cats well into the $1000+ range. Cheers

 

Except it's actually NOT recommended to EVER sleep in your car with it running because of the exhaust fumes. It needs to be moving at least 15 mph to exit the fumes properly away from the vehicle. Because Carbon Monoxide can in fact easily kill you.

Google it. lol

 

Running your car for heat is both dangerous (CO, fire risk if parked over flammables) and highly inefficient. Small 4-cyl engines don't generate that much heat at idle. Plus, as you're noting, they're not meant to idle for extended periods.

I used to car camp a lot in a mid-1990s Ford Escort Wagon. The key is to have a good camping pad (or pads) to avoid convection heat loss through your backside, plus good blankets or a quality sleeping bag. I slept quite comfortably in the 0-10F range without ever running the car. I also thought I was going to die on a 40F night when I forgot my camping pad. Do crack some windows to keep from saturating the interior of the car with condensation.

If you really need supplemental heat, you would be better off with something like a Jackery or EcoFlow battery and an electric blanket. Put the heat where you are and you'll need a lot less of it.

 

No one said anything about sleeping in a running car, or even running your car for heat.
Just idling in cold weather... while inflating a sleeping pad, for example.

 

Hopefully the OP clarifies. They did state that they were running the car at night while camping in the cold. But, you are correct that I assumed they were sleeping in the car which may be incorrect.

More generally, I'll stand by what I said: idling is highly inefficient, whether you're trying to generate heat inside the car, generate 12v electricity to inflate your sleeping pad, or warm up the car prior to driving. It's also potentially dangerous for persons/pets in or around the vehicle and can create a fire hazard. And, as I was taught by my mechanic dad and the OP has stated, it's not great for the car either.

 

How you guys went straight to trying to make assumptions and trying to be the concern police is way beyond me.

I've slept in my car lots of times- but perhaps it would be best to understand basic fluid dynamics and physics before "trusting the Google" lol. Your car doesn't randomly catch fire idling over asphalt or rocks; maybe over thick grass touching your exhaust yeah. Exhaust fumes don't just hover all the time- it naturally disperses and expands outward- diluting the air. In enclosed spaces, that's a nono, but atop a hill with a breeze or with an expanse of air (the outdoors) it does spread out through dispersion. Just don't sleep in valleys or divets of earth. Not having enough fresh air/ventilation IN the car is more of a concern than anything. But whatever. This is FitFreak not reddit. Thanks for understanding 👍🏻

 

Also if your cats are full of unburnt gunk give them the ol' Italian tune-up. Those things need to get real hot regularly.

 

The OP did actually refer that. As there would be no other reason to run it in the middle of the night for no reason at all.


"when I started running at night during camp outs..."

 

Result is correct, but reasoning is not so. It is correct that GK5 1.5-liter engine doesn't really warm up when idling even extended times. But it's not because it's small, which it actually isn't, nor because it's 4-cyl. Low (or lousy) heat generation is because it is modern, fuel-efficient low friction engine, which is optimized to utilize the heat energy from the fuel for creating crankshaft power and to avoid heat losses. I've had several older cars with 0.8...1.3-litre engines, and they all heated up reasonably well when idling 15 minutes or so in freezing temperatures. But by doing so, they also consumed more fuel. I'd love to have separate heat up mode of the engine for my GK5 for cold mornings, but that's not in the interest of any manufacturer.

 

Interesting idea. I'd imagine a piggybacked Arduino could do this. Just a bit of programming and EE. Maybe an overseas guy could help you.

 

My previous car was a diesel. There's a considerable market in keeping those warm in the winter. I wonder if a block heater or dipstick heater would give the engine enough of a boost to warm the engine and transmission faster. (The problem with idling to warm up the car, of course, is that it does not warm up the suspension or the other bits.)

 

If it is too cold get a better sleeping bag, idling your car overnight is a bad decision for you/the car/the atmosphere.

 

For some points of clarification -
1) I wasn't worried that your car would catch on fire - your car, your business. I was concerned that your idling car would catch the camping area on fire. Is it likely? Probably not. Does it happen? Yep. Do you want to be responsible for starting a fire in a campground that might damage property or injure other people? I know I don't. I'll note that the (2010) owner's manual says:

While not explicitly stated, I think most of us would extend this idea to letting a car idle in similar conditions, such as might be found where someone is likely to camp, which is the scenario laid out in the original post.

2) I'm a Duck Duck Go guy, so I definitely don't trust Google. I also refuse to LOL as I find it undignified. When amused, I allow myself a single internal chuckle like a proper Catholic Midwesterner.

3) I used to know a lot about physics in my college days and could have shown you some whiz-bang calculations about the dispersion of one gas into another, but I don't remember much of that anymore. What I do know, based on many winters of observation, is that exhaust (helpfully visible in the cold air) regularly builds up around an idling car. Yes, even outside, on hills, in the woods, or at stoplights. I will also note that there are interior-to-exterior vents located under the trim in the back of the hatch area, precisely where exhaust builds up when a car is idling. While they have rubber flaps that are mostly closed when the car isn't moving, they're not tight seals and some exhaust gases can get in, especially if a car is sitting still and the exhaust is allowed to build up... and we have now entered a circular argument.

4) However, you are correct that in a strong wind, such as you create when you drive, the exhaust gases will disperse quickly. I suppose that's why the exhaust pipe comes out of the back of the car instead of poking out of the front bumper. As you have clearly studied the subject and I have not, can you give me a better idea of the necessary wind speed and direction (relative to my exhaust pipe) I should look for to insure safety? Do I need a weather station for precise measurements or can I guesstimate by sticking a wet finger into the air? What if the wind speed or direction shifts?

I'm not trying to be the "concern police," just trying to give some helpful advice (and maybe poke a little fun because I am a smart ass). If someone makes a post to tell me that idling a car for extended periods is bad, which I assumed was common knowledge, I tend to assume (there it is again) that they might benefit from some helpful tips to stay safe. Perhaps you don't need those tips but maybe others do.

 

This sort of illustrates the point I made earlier: idling is not an efficient way to warm up a car. If you start your drive (gently) the car will warm up much faster than at idle. Even at temperatures in the 10-20F range my Fit hits operating temperature in 1-2 minutes of gentle driving.

If you live somewhere with winter temperatures colder than that, it's quite easy to install a block heater in a Fit. I have thought about doing it on mine but have been lazy and cheap.

 

I live in Finland, and I do have a block heater, and an interior heater as well, and it's all good if you plug them in an hour or two in advance. But quite often you just don't know beforehand when you need to go. Or the car is parked in a public area, where there is no possibility to plug in. And when the car is cold, you need to scrape the ice off the windows before you can start driving.

 

My Fit has the block heater which was installed by the dealer (mandatory here) when I bought it new. I have never used it. I did install a battery blanket (80 watts I think) which wraps around the battery and which I had left over from my previous car. The blanket was fine on the small OEM 151R battery but when I installed the larger 51R battery the blanket would no longer fit in the now extremely tight space around the battery so it just sits on a shelf unused, not that I really used it when it was installed..

A long time ago I had a 1967 beetle which had a gas heater installed under the back seat. This was a small gas powered engine whose sole purpose was to burn gas and produce hot air from that which could be circulated through the interior of the car and keep the driver and passengers from freezing to death since the normal engine heater produced so little heat as to be useless in the subzero temps normal here in the winter. The fact that it could easily malfunction and also leak carbon dioxide/monoxide into the passenger compartment was always something to think about.

Things like a block heater are solely intended to warm up the engine just enough so that it will easily turn over and start up. This really dates back to the days when 10W30 conventional oil was the standard and in cold temperatures was equivalent to molasses unless some heat was provided to allow it to flow better and spin the engine faster at startup. The block heater is not intended to provide warmth to the driver and it is really irrelevant now with 0W20 (and thinner) synthetics which flow easily in the coldest temps.

 

No one (in this series of posts) has suggested that a block heater provides warmth to people in the car, only that it helps the engine reach operating temperature more quickly. That is valuable even with modern engines and modern oils, especially if the alternative is prolonged idling, which as the OP stated and others have agreed with, is not great for your car.

However, we know that the faster the engine warms up the faster it can provide heat to the occupants of the car. You can warm the engine up more quickly by driving (vs idling) and/or using a block heater to pre-heat the coolant or oil, depending on the system used in your car. In other words, using a block heater does (indirectly) provide faster heat availability inside the car.

 

you can also add - the Fit has direct injection and it's my understanding that long periods of idleing will tend to dump a certain amount of fuel into the crankcase

 

I'd consider something like this if car camping in cold weather: https://www.mrheater.com/little-budd...a-version.html

It's suppose to have an oxygen sensor so as not to gas you. I have the buddy heater and it works well.

 

I wouldn't use them in something as small as a fit, especially considering if the Oxy sensor fails, but yeah they do look nice. I'm gonna be getting a larger one for my slumlord rented garage soon. Will see how it turns out.

Also a refute to those who would rather just "trust the science presented by google" vs. real world experience- last night I effectively slept in 13°F weather- of which approximately 5 hours with the car on, possibly 6, I am still alive and well- though norovirus has been trying to keep me down, not happening. I was parked atop a hill (think strip mall side parking lot), dropoff at 35° approx. 15 feet away, trees less than 50ft away, etc. etc. It amazes me to this day how people would rather trust a company that has a vested interest in agendas and exploitation of it's users, than doing the experiments, seeing how things turn out... egos aside.

That being said, if it really was such an issue, people would be dying left and right in the insane stop and go 3 lane traffic as witnessed in California, Texas, etc. There is a reason California has higher emissions requirements... I'd assume this to be a part of it, along with vested agendas, however I'm still not sure why you'd take the stance of trusting a dishonest platform over RWE., doing science, Take that as you will, truth plows over perception always in the real world. Cheers.