Can the New Fit Tow?
 

The 3rd generation Fit has a much more robust sub frame so the it can be used on the new HR-V. That new frame strength plus additional HP and torque should mean that the Fit might be able to tow small loads.

It would be very nice if a small trailer that could carry two bikes; or a small M/C; or a small water craft; or a family tent, etc. would be really nice.

What do you think, is this capability designed into the new FIT/ HR-V? :thumbups:

When I was in Europe EVERY car had a tow hook. Saw lots of 3rd gens with tow hooks. I don't know why people here think small cars can't or shouldn't tow.

http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/jazz/accessories/travel/

Ive towed/pulled a hyundai tiburon v6 GT several miles

a user on here towed 2200 pounds which includes the trailer.

Ive driven 1300 miles with over half a ton in the back of the car


Pretty sure the new fit will be fine lol

Maybe because the 2nd generation owner's manual says don't do it. I would not buy a used 1st or 2nd generation Fit that has a tow bar attached or signs that one was used. Would you?

Where I am from a large number of people put tow hooks on their cars, not because they intend to tow anything, but here people don't care about following distances and stopping distances, so there is a lot of bumper bashing, and the tow bar is a bit of a buffer to save your bumper, now I know that higher impacts will still cause damage.
Also a lot of people have the bolt on bike racks

I would say dont do it as the CVT isnt meant for high power / load applications.

But we had a car break down (s14 silvia weighing about 1350kg) and an old GD fit with CVT flat towed it 3 hours back no problem. So maybe the CVT isnt as weak as I had thought?

Tow bars are also used for mounting bike racks.

Attachment 15299

Any updates on this question?

I know most car makers are shying away from towing, but this car seems better equipped to handle a trailer than cars that have in the past.

Are there any real reasons a Fit should not tow a 1000lb trailer?

If you have to go in for transmission work under warranty, and they see a tow hitch receiver, it may raise questions and possibly invalidate your warranty.

I'd be concerned about safety. Sure, anything can theoretically pull a trailer, but can it stop? What if it gets windy? I've been to Europe and they tow large caravans with Mazda3s. There are also a lot of bad accidents involving caravans.

Yes
 

Hell yes you can tow with your 3rd Gen! But tow smart. There is a post somewhere on this forum from a guy that went coast to coast with a FIT pulling way more than I would. He towed smart, slow and steady. Took lots of breaks to check things, let the car cool down etc. He had an add on trans cooler. Do not try to pull too much (I'd say 1500lbs MAX). Drive 65 or less. Watch the gauges. My Civic which is less powerful than the FIT has been pulling stuff all over New Mexico, through the mountains and I have had no problem. Tow smart!

I am certain the Fit can tow a light trailer - most cars can. I am likewise sure the engine, transmission, brakes, and suspension can handle it.

This similar car has a tow rating of 450Kg with an unbraked trailer, and 1000kg with a braked trailer:

Specifications - Official Honda Australia Site

I would like to know, though, if Honda will honour their warranty if the vehicle is used to tow. If that is not the case, I can stick with my Ford Focus (about the same power/weight etc) which is rated to tow 1000lbs. Alternatively, I can get a Mitsubishi Mirage which cannot tow, but is much less expensive and more fuel efficient.

no it will not. honda sells a trailer hitch for many of their vehicles, fit included. its not a honda OEM piece for some cars, usually its a partnership with Uhaul or some other company.


They have to PROVE it was the driver hauling too much. Strain on engine/tranny mounts and CV joints will show heavy load wear and tear.


ALL cars sold today (if frame supports) can haul at a minimum half the vehicle weight.

last time I checked, the european GE fits were rated over 1500 pounds, and they use the 1.3 liter motors!

Page 307 of the US (NA?) 2015 Honda Owners Manual

Your vehicle is not designed to tow a trailer. Attempting to do so can void your warranties.

This is because of two reasons:

1. Honda wants to force Americans to buy more expensive vehicles if they want to tow. This is shown by the fact that the FIT has different towing specifications in different markets.
2. The US is infested with lawyers who sue manufacturers when owners do something stupid like try to tow an Airstream. They even contributed to the warning above by including the weasel word "can" so the statement is not definite. Heaven forbid a manual include a definite statement that could be held against them!

Since hitches are used for other purposes the mere presence of a hitch cannot be used as a sign of abuse although I'm sure that dealers will attempt to do so if the owner is gullible enough. Dealers would much rather do work at their full customer labor rates and parts markups than at the lower rates that Honda pays for warranty work. This motivates them to deny warranty claims whenever they can do so.

Most cars with hitches never see a trailer. My father installed a hitch to provide a foundation for his amateur radio antennas!

Can you imagine a Tarheel 400 (or even a 200) on a Fit?:rotfl:

http://pi.b5z.net/i/u/2016356/i/M400.jpg http://pi.b5z.net/i/u/2016356/i/photo2.JPG

edit: Would have to look better than this:
http://pi.b5z.net/zirw/0/i/u/2016356...-dsc_7306.jpeg

This has been discussed before, a hitch is available


https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/3rd-...ml#post1261209




C11406 - Curt CURT Trailer Hitch #11406 2015 Fit Alll Models - RedTrailers.com


https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/pict...pictureid=9189


https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/pict...pictureid=9190

Strangely, the European second gen Fit has tow ratings.

They must have a super reinforced frame over the USDM model. :rotfl:

Either that or what George L posted is 100% correct.

Quite a few people on here tow with their GE with no bad results, engine, transmission and brakes handled everything fine, this is towing everything from motorcycles to UHaul trailers.

This is common practice in Europe. They just want you to buy a crossover. They don't even try to sell those to the Europeans I don't think lol

Yes. And that is the entirety of page 307!

But on page 305, point #6 it says "If your vehicle will be towing a trailer, load from your trailer will be transferred to your vehicle. Consult this manual to determine how this reduces available cargo and luggage load capacity for your vehicle."

Here is the on-line manual link too in case anyone needs it.
http://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/p...u/5A1515OM.pdf

Given that motorcycles and bicycles can tow trailers, and something like the Yakima Rack-n-Roll trailer with a kayak might weigh the same as one large person, I think prohibiting trailers completely must be for the non-technical reasons others have suggested above.

I was reading the owners manual & remember reading the Fit was not designed to tow. I'd guess if you pull into the dealer with a drive train issue they'll look at your hitch & say sorry charley. They could also void your entire warranty.

That being said I bet the Fit would tow 1000 pounds or so just fine.

Maybe, maybe not. If the problem looks like it was caused by towing, it's much more likely they would deny coverage (and quite reasonably so, IMHO).

Not legally in the US. The use of aftermarket or unapproved parts and accessories (such as trailer hitches or trailers) cannot cause you to lose warranty coverage except if those things specifically caused the problem in question. If you have a broken windshield wiper motor, they'll fix that under warranty regardless of whether you have a trailer hitch or not...and if they don't, you have legal recourse.

I completely agree with this; the only uncertainty in my mind might be how well the CVT would do under towing conditions, but I would guess it would be fine with a modest trailer sanely towed.

I recall that the Toyota Corolla had a 1500lb towing rating last time I checked . . . well, the second last time. I just checked now and it is the same thing in the Toyota Manual - "not designed for towing". The Mazda 3 is also not designed for towing.

The Mazda3 is a C-segment sedan that weighs about 2700lbs, has 155hp and similar torque, and 4 wheel disc brakes. Can't tow 1000lbs though. Nope. Wouldn't be safe. Void the warranty. Maybe you would be happier with a big SUV or truck to tow the odds and ends that won't fit?

I've towed 3 canoes on a lightweight trailer, empty rain barrels, leaves/yard waste and other light things all without needing the 300hp or so the industry now seems to think is required!

I'm thinking I should just keep my 2003 Ford Focus, as clearly it is a much stronger and more robust vehicle than these modern lightweights!

I had a hitch on my 2010. I used it for a bike rack. I also used it to tow a log splitter and a small uhaul to do dump runs. I'm planning on putting a hitch on my 2015 as well. Never had a problem with the old one. Never had a warranty issue, no questions when I traded it in, nothing.

There were many hitch option for my 2010. I tried to limit weight, and will do the same for the new one.

They need to prove the hitch caused the damage.

So basically nothing has changed with the 2015 Fit from previous 2 generations-- In Europe and probably Asia there is no warning about towing, but the USA Honda manual says towing not recommended & will void warranty.

If you're in Ontario, take your Fit to Can-Am RV in London. They'll have you pulling an Airstream in no time:

Mini towing an Airstream

They've been doing this kind of stuff for years.

LOL! That was a very early classic Airstream 1-axle trailer. I was referring to something more like this:

http://www.twopaddocks.com/assets/pi...airstream1.jpg

I cannot believe the 3rd gen USDM fit owners manual has no towing in it.

I wonder if dealerships are allowed to print their own version of manuals. That would explain it perfectly.


the 3rd gen fit has a slightly stiffer chassis, more power, and slightly better suspension.

It will tow even 2000 pounds just fine.

the hitch is usually limited to 200 pounds tongue weight, else it pulls everything just fine.

To void a warranty, they MUST prove WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that the trailer caused it. They cannot say "well it didnt HELP" and then precede to screw you over.

My comfort zone would end at about 1000 pounds, unbraked, but others might go higher.

It all boils down to whether a person treats the car reasonably well. Even though the Fit's engine makes 130HP, the cooling system isn't designed to support that power level for more than a few minutes.

On the Scion forum one member told his tale of woe. He had an xD with a 1.8 liter engine. He installed a hitch, hooked up a U-Haul trailer and proceeded to cross the country with it. He did fine until he hit a strong headwind in the midwest and put his foot to the floor to maintain 65MPH. After a while, things got hot. He ignored the warning light and boiled the car over. After that it didn't run the same again. He was bad-mouthing Toyota's engineering.

You obviously can't do this with a small car. He was asking the engine to do a lot more work than normal hauling that big slab-front trailer against the wind and the radiator couldn't keep up. If he had backed off to 50MPH or waited for the wind to abate he would have had no problem but he didn't think of that.

One could size the radiator to allow continuous WOT operation, but then the front of the car would look like a Chevy pickup!

Yeah, he should have slowed down and turned the heater on full blast. Even still, I have hard time imagining the cooling system could not prevent overheating on a moving vehicle. Was the outside temp over a 100? Or perhaps something was wrong with the cooling system.

Not GK's but pics show an aussie Jazz moving a house and a JDM with a teardrop camper. Both pics pinched from MCM.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...3fa780d5899ab1

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...044ab3b5398314

This is what is tickling my fancy...

MyPod Max - Teardrop Camper/Trailer - Little Guy

Not hard to imagine at all. Look at the radiator of a vehicle that is designed to tow. It will be are huge compared to a typical car radiator. That is because the radiator is designed to dissipate the heat generated by the engine producing its rated power.

A typical car radiator is designed to dissipate the heat generated by the car at cruise on a hot day with an adequate safety margin. A small car cruises on 20-30HP so the radiator is designed to dissipate the heat associated with 40HP or so. Put your foot all the way down and demand 100HP out of the car and the cooling demand goes up too. If you only do it for a few seconds the coolant gets a degree or two hotter and the extra heat is dissipated over the next minute or so. If you demand 100 HP continuously The radiator can't keep up and it will overheat.

For one thing, you can use that power for more then a few minutes. Ive used HALF a tank of fuel beating on it on backroads. Did not overheat, coolant never got over 210.

Second, that Scion sounds like it was not at its healthiest. People have raveled long ways with 1600 pounds even in that car.

moral of story, if you tow, prepare. automatic tranny? get a tranny cooler so the radiator isnt getting higher duty from super hot trannny fluid.

manual? dont feather clutch, and maybe you should stiffen mounts a bit.

You were on backroads with the pedal all the way down continuously? :eek3:

More likely you were on the throttle half the time and off of it the other half of the time. A standard passenger car cooling system is sized for this service. What it can't handle is continuous WOT operation where it has to dissipate twice the heat.

In the case of the Scion, the car was fine, the owner overtaxed it.

you are incorrect, throttle isnt the cause of overheating at all


SUSTAINED high engine load and high rpms cause overheating.

engine load increases coolant temps, high rpm increases oil and coolant temps, oil being 20-40% of your engine cooling.

Its the reason I run an oil stabilizer, zinc additive, and run oil that meets newest regulations

Throttle was not full all the time, but engine did not have a chance to just idle or cruise along for more then a few seconds. no throttle around very tight corners, as when you apply brakes engine removes timing, since it assumes you are not wanting power.



You must not know the lengths Honda does to over-engineer their motors. They have one of the biggest history's in racing, you know. They do apply it to production. Look at the old B series. B16 nonvtec made 130-140hp, vtec B16s made between 150-200hp depending on which market and vehicle it was sold in.



Find an american motor that isnt turbo'd and makes even close to those power-to-liter ratios. A Z06 corvette doesnt even do that.

So, how do you get sustained high engine loads without large throttle openings? :)

Heat production is in direct proportion to power output and the radiator has to be sized to reject that heat. For every joule delivered to the wheels about three joules have to be rejected as heat and most of that goes through the radiator.

Take a big semi truck, producing 600HP. The radiator is huge because it has to reject the heat created as all 600HP are used, which it is when pulling a trailer up a Western pass.

Compare that to a Roush Mustang producing 600HP. The radiator is much smaller because the full power can only be used for a few seconds at a time. For that short time the excess heat beyond the radiator's capacity can be absorbed by a temperature rise in the coolant. Hook a big semitrailer to that Mustang and climb a mountain and it'll be boiling in no time.

Or consider a dragster. They often have no radiators at all, just a coolant tank. They product huge power, but only for a few seconds at a time so they don't need the radiator.

In other words, you were on the throttle about half the time, off of it for half the time. That's a 50 percent duty cycle, hardly the same thing as someone keeping the throttle buried fighting a headwind with a trailer.

you need fuel as well.

I guess what I meant was throttle alone isnt going to do anything.

Yes, I drive my car extremely hard on backroads. minimal or no traffic, no cops usually, and its a chance to have fun while testing out different things I do to my car.

Recently was the ultracapacitor I installed. Makes a very large difference in engine response. power? minor. its for smoothing everything out.


My final point is, towing is fine. If this car can survive with me driving, and the hundreds of dragstrip runs, it can survive a tiny thing like half a ton beign towed for a few hours or days of driving easily.


Lots of my older crx's and civic's that had over 200whp did just fine on the stock thin halfcore radiators. Dont fix what aint broke.

However, the automatics I owned always gave up the ghost after 4-5 runs at the drags. a big tranny cooler changed it from 4-5 runs before slipping to well over 15 runs.


No one on this board can claim they drive harder then me. Hence why at 41k miles I am on my 4th set of tires. Always an alignment with each set to keep things in check

EDIT strangely enough, my front brakes still look and perform like new. Only recent change, VERY SLIGHT warping causing slight pedal vibration over 80mph and hard braking. Honda did a fan-friggin-tastic job on the GE!

George, what you say makes sense, but you are experessing an unsupported opinion about the "margins" and even another important assumption. That the honda's radiator is insufficient to keep the engine from overheating at some operating conditions given the cooling system and ALL other components function properly.

This assumption that I can't agree with. It just isn't plausible. Cars get tested in variety of driving conditions including in Death Valley when the temps are over 115 F. (I in fact photographed camouflaged car being tested there few yrs ago).

Let me go through the theory, and please point out to things you disagree with.
Heat is a form of energy. Head is an energy converted from the chemical energy of gasoline and air in the process of combustion. Heat is a measure of intensity and speed of movement of molecules. Heat is measure in Joules or Calories.

When the car's engine converts 1 liter of gasoline and 13 kilograms of air into mechanical energy (expansion during combustion) and thermal energy, there is an increase in temperature of parts that are moving and are in contact with combustion gases - i.e. the piston, the cylinders, the valves, etc. The more gasoline and air is converted into energy, the more heat is going to be dissipated in process. (Do you agree with this?)

Then, the Honda engineers designed a cooling system - i.e. a way for the heat to be dissipated into the atmosphere from the engine. This is done through convection - i.e. through exposure of hot engine (and radiator) surface, with a cooler outside air (second law of thermodynamics, heat flows from hotter object to the cooler one).

Honda also designed the cooling system in such a way as to minimize the chances for overheating. Meaning, the engine block has "water jacket" to allow the coolant to circulate through the block, via cooling hoses and water pump to the radiator.
Honda chose the amount of coolant, the number of coolant passages around the cylinder, and the radiator surface area and location to prevent overheating in as many circumstances as reasonably possible under expected operating conditions. (Do you agree so far?)

Ok, if so, here is your argument: Honda failed to design and equip the Fit with the sufficient cooling system to prevent overheating when towing a trailer of certain weight and at certain speed as we discussed before. The result of this design and this use of the car is that it overheats since the ability of the cooling system has been exceeded. (Did I understand your argument?)

So here is why I don't agree with this position.
My experience of working as a mechanic and studying automotive technology, leads to me to believe that the properly functioning cooling system would be able to prevent overheating when towing the trailer with pedal to the floor (you said the driver tried to maintain 65 mph going against the head wind).

The cooling system will utilize the cooling fan should the natural airflow seize. So, the combination of a moving car, with moderate outside temperature, with properly functioning cooling fans, relays, temperature sensors, along with having clean filters and good quality fuel, right timing and otherwise undamaged engine mechanical, I believe would provide sufficient cooling to not overheat.

The radiator on a Honda Fit is large (compare to older civics).
So this is my reasons. If this guy's engine overheated, it must have been an out of ordinary circumstances such as malfunctioning cooling system, insufficient coolant level, poor engine condition, and perhaps severely high outside temperature. Of course if he was towing bus, but even then... He would probably not be able to move at all.

Conclusion, hmmmm, maybe you are right, he exceeded the cooling system's ability to dissipate the amount of heat created ( while getting 3 miles per gallon..). :D (I love these technical discussions).

Yes, you got it in the end! The guy was an idiot!

Honda (and Toyota) do design adequate cooling systems, but all systems are tradeoffs. They could have designed a system that would not overheat in Death Valley at WOT and 10MPH but the resulting radiator and grille would look more in place on a pickup than a Fit. It would also increase drag and reduce mileage. Instead, they designed a system that is adequate in 99.9% of driving situations and a warning system to tell you if you exceed its ability.

If you're going to tow with the Fit you will have to respect its limitations. A utility trailer with a 400 pound load of lumber on a nice spring day won't phase it at all. Try towing a 2000 pound "lightweight" camp trailer out of Death Valley on an August afternoon and you'll have to be very careful.

Here is the response I received from Honda. No surprises, really, as it just tows the company line (with intended pun, as the company line doesn't seem to support towing at all). I will say this is a pretty serious disadvantage to getting a new Fit for me. I don't tow much, but occasionally pull a small canoe trailer. If I'm going to buy a new car, I want a warranty. If I am not going to get a warranty, I might look at the older Fits or get the Mitsubishi Mirage (which also isn't rated to tow, but uses less gas and costs $5k less).

Thank you for taking the time to write to Honda Canada inquiring if towing
a small trailer behind a 2015 Honda Fit with Manual Transmission will void
the warranty.

As the 2015 Honda Fit (both the CVT & MT models) is not designed to tow a
trailer, attempting to do so can void the vehicle warranty, as indicated on
page 307 of the Owner's Manuel.

Thank you again Mr. ___ for contacting Honda Canada, we appreciate being
given the opportunity to respond and your interest in the 2015 Honda Fit.

Yes, there's that weasel word "can" again. You'll never get a straight answer out of Honda, only a boilerplate lawyer's statement that is as vague as possible.

Of course there is a blatant lie there too, since the Fit is an international platform and is manufacturer approved for towing in other countries. Of course it is designed for towing! I'll bet that there are even hardpoints designed into the unibody for a bolt-on hitch.