Your most welcome and definitely want to see pics of that beauty when you take delivery.

Best of luck!!

 

Maybe I'm just an asshole but I just had another awful experience at a Honda dealer.

A salesman I had worked with a few months ago told me the whole deposit process for their dealership is to write a $500 check that they will hold until you buy the car, and then cash it along with whatever other down payment. That salesman left the dealer a few weeks ago and I went in yesterday to do my deposit since I saw a car I wanted in transit. I meet a new sales lady and she sits me down to do the deposit paperwork.

She comes over with a credit application for Honda Financial and tells me to fill the entire thing out, with 3 references and employment history. She said they were just going to hold the information and not pull credit, just to save time later. I told her no, and she insists it is standard procedure. I lied and said I was paying cash for the car and she said oh, then you just have to fill out the top portion with birthday and SSN. I told her no again and said she didn't need that information to take a deposit, and why would they need my social? She says they soft-pull credit since I am writing a check. I tell her absolutely no, and she comes back with the 1-paragraph deposit form that I was expecting. She also asks for my drivers license and proof of insurance (what). At this point she leaves to go meet a customer she had an appointment with (wtf).

Dude #2 comes over and we talk about the terms which were super simple - I write a check, when the car comes in I have 48 hours to buy it or it goes on sale to the public and my money is refunded. I say great lets put that VIN and stock # in so I can be on my way. He refuses to do it until he can make a copy of my drivers license. At this point I'm frustrated and tell him look, I'm in your system just search for my name. I've been here before, you have my info. He refuses so I just said their whole process is disorganized and stupid and walked out.

My favorite part of this whole experience was when the lady noticed my insurance card was expired by 8 days, I have the new cards at home. She flipped out and started giving me crap about how she can't make this deal go through unless I have a valid card. I had to remind her yet again that I'm not buying a car, I'm putting down a deposit.

what the crap

 

Sad to hear you had a bad experience with your local Honda dealer. While I was not there to see/hear how the interactions took place, let me share some info related to the facts that you shared. And since I've been reading a number of Fit members have issues with deposits, let me go over the basics as to what is normally required.

First, you need a completed Buyer's Order, which should include the following information:

Name
Date
Address
Phone Number
Email
Year, Make and Model of vehicle
Trim
Color
VIN#
MSRP and/or agreed upon Selling Price

Let's elaborate a bit more. If the vehicle is in transit, then the dealership has a VIN#, but not necessarily a stock # (usually assigned when the vehicle arrives at the dealership).

They do not need a SS#. However, keep in mind that even if you are paying cash, the dealership still needs your SS# for Motor Vehicle purposes (it's a Federal requirement).

They do not need your license when putting a deposit, but will need it when you finalize the purchase. With that being said, that dealership's policy might require it. Every place is different.

Just signing a Deposit Slip is not enough. You need a Buyer's Order with all the information above. Think about it this way. When you go to Gamestop to reserve a new game console, they will ask you for the information above. A car is a much more expensive purchase. At the same time, you want to have a Buyer's Order with all this info to protect your deposit as well.

And make sure it has a manager's signature on the Order itself.

Note: a Special Order is different from a deposit on a vehicle that's in-transit. In this case they would not be able to give you a VIN#, since the vehicle has not been manufactured.

Also, each dealership might have their own policies and forms they use for a deposit. Regardless, they all should provide you with a Buyer's Order. If not, request it. If they refuse, then move on to the next dealer.

Wish you were closer to Jersey so I could make this easy for you. But I hope this helps you in the near future with your local dealers. If you have any more questions, just PM me.

Best of luck!!

 

If you give them $10,000 or more in cash they have to fill out a form for the federal government.


That means C A S H. Money. Currency. Bills.


Not a check. You can pay by check and nobody has to fill out forms.

 

Just to clarify, if it's a Bank Check, yes, the dealer is not required to fill out an ST form for the IRS.

However, if you are paying $10K in Cash or a Personal Check, yes, the form is required by law. And it doesn't matter if it's $5K Cash and $5K Personal Check.

 

This states otherwise:
Workbook on Reporting Cash Payments of Over $10,000
To quote it: "Cash does not include personal checks drawn on the account of the writer."


The point of the law is for things to be traceable. A personal check is traceable because you need to provide proof of identity when you open a checking account.


(I used to be a banker before I escaped)

 

Jeez, I gave my salesperson my credit card number over the phone and that was it.


He reserved a silver EX for me (I wasn't fussy about color) since most of the early cars were silver, but switched it to a red one that came in just as we were arriving in FL to buy the car because I preferred the red if it was available.


No paperwork at all.

 

This is true. However, at least in the state of NJ, every dealership reports to the IRS moneys exceeding $10,000 paid by cash or personal check. The reason for this is, as you said, they want to be able to trace funds, in order to stop exporters.

In NJ and NY, many people try to pay using cash or other means that exclude a bank check or financing, so they can export them to Europe. Heck, there are even people from Europe who come to America to buy Mercedes to then send back to Europe, just because high end models are in great demand.

I say this having worked for a motor group that owned a Mercedes, BMW, Land Rover, Jaguar, Lexus and other brands. There are a bunch of rules and regulations that the IRS imposes on car dealerships that do not apply to other businesses.

 

That's plain silly- a personal check and a bank check are equally traceable- in fact often when you get a bank check they just take the money out of your checking account.


The whole point of the anti money laundering rules is to prevent cash (currency) from entering the legitimate banking system, which is why the rules are about currency, not checks.


And the IRS rules don't vary from state to state.

 

You are right, Brian. I'm simply sharing what happens at the dealership level. In fact, at many dealerships, if someone is paying with a personal check and the amount is large, the salesperson needs to call the customer's bank to verify the funds are there.

In fact, last year while working at Lexus, I was required to attend a compliance training where many federal laws were explained, which pertained to dealerships only.

I'm not sure how much experience you have working at car dealerships, but having worked in other industries, I can tell that you the auto world is a different animal all together.

Thanks for the input, though. It's much appreciated!!

 

Never worked at a car dealership but when I was a banker I had to sit through a lot of boring seminars and take tests on all the Know Your Customer and Anti-Money-Laundering stuff. All of it talked about cash, never about anything else (checks, etc.).


As far as calling a bank when accepting a personal check, that's a credit issue, not a money-laundering or IRS issue, you just want to make sure you get paid.


Oh, and my name is Shaun. My url (and ID here) is Brain Champagne. Not Brian.

 

When we purchased our Fit , I wrote a check. Of course I didn't hand it to the salesman, but the Finance Manager. They let us take the car home that night, even without my daughters signature for the title, because she was in Florida at the time. They just wanted a copy of our drivers license and Insurance card. They even asked us if they needed to hold the check for a few days before depositing it. We said no. No other forms to fill out. Once my daughter returned the next Monday, she and I drove back to the dealership (200 miles from our home), and she signed the buyers order (the car was being titled in both her and her Mothers name).

Years ago, I worked for a bank as well. Two things I remember being taught were 1)you can deposit toilet paper (in other words, anything), but that does not mean it will clear, and 2)you can write a check to anyone for any amount, provided they are willing to accept it (check is not legal tender like cash, so you can't force someone to accept a check).

Another example of this issue that I can remember (many years earlier, before my banking days), is when I walked into a stock brokerage to settle a purchase, with cash, and was shocked at the response from the cashier (they basically hustled me out of the building and told me to deposit the money and come back with a check). They seemed very concerned at the time, as it appeared they wanted to avoid some legal obligation to involve the Government (and of course, they also warned me of the dangers I faced carrying around so much cash). What can I say? I was both young and dumb.

 

Thanks, Shaun. I guess it's clear that dealership policies are different. But I appreciate your valuable input and contribution here. All the best!!

 

Interesting. I have never worked for a dealer who refused cash, regardless of the amount. The only thing that has been common with all is a $2,500 limit on credit cards. Except for the elusive Black Amex, of course.

Thanks for sharing.

 

The discussion was not about the idea of someone (in your case, a car dealer), accepting or refusing cash. We were discussing the concept of what triggers the need for notifying the Government of a large cash transaction (your figure was $10,000 or more, either cash or check). My point was a) checks are not legal tender, which is why they are not the same as cash, and b) back in the late 70's, I was stupid enough to try and settle a large brokerage bill with all cash, and how the brokerage people handled it without triggering some sort of IRS involvement (in other words, they were doing me a favor).

As for the black AMEX being "elusive", or credit cards having a $2,500.00 limit, this must be a statement from your perspective.

As always, glad to share.

 

Good Morning Vanguard,

As always, thanks for your comments. Just to clarify a few things.

Personal perspective is something I try to never use when it comes to other peoples money. But in regards to what was mentioned above...

$2,500 Credit Card Limit: this has been the policy enforced at every dealership/franchise of dealers that I have worked for in NJ, which included Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Land Rover, Acura, Kia, Acura and BMW again, and finally Honda. They belonged mainly to Prestige Motors and Park Ave Motors.
Your local dealerships may have different policies, but if you were going to purchase a vehicle from any of the dealers mentioned above in NJ, they would only accept $2,500 on a CC, even if you are putting more money down.

Black American Express: this is the exception of the rule, since it allows its holders to use it for a full purchase of a vehicle. I have personally dealt with two customers who used this card to complete purchases.

Again, the above is from my experience, not perspective, but I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Enjoy the rest of your day!!

 

many 'invoices' are falsified and we aren't talking about the 3% holdback.
No dealer could exist on only $430 profit including mine. Most dealerships profit mostly on shop R&R but cars count too, particularly used sales.There are a wide range in just how dealers profit, including that infamous 'transaction fee'.

 

Interesting comments. Thanks for clarifying what you were talking about regarding credit cards. However, you still have not acknowledged that what you were discussing was not using a credit card for a car purchase, but how you felt a check was the same as cash, when it comes to the IRS requirement for disclosing the transaction to the Federal Government, of anything $10,000 or over.

I think they would call your insertion of the Credit card discussion a "straw man argument".

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

"straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.

The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition".

Alway's happy to share (educate).

 

Vanguard, everything I have shared with you was given to me by either a Financial Director or a representative of a compliance office. Ironically enough, there is a company called Vanguard, which conducts random audits in dealerships in NJ, to make sure all deals are under compliance.

I am not stating that what you are saying is incorrect. What I am sharing is the policies that are in place at the dealerships in NJ I worked for. Policies that were not put into effect by me.

But if you are ever in NJ, I would be glad to set up a meeting between you and one of the Finance Directors (not finance manager), so you can go over polices. It would be great if you can educate the dealers in proper procedure. In fact, you could actually get a position doing this, with a pretty good salary, from what I have heard.

Its a tough job, but it seems that you are more than qualified. All the best in your current position and in the future!!

 

And we all know the Finance department of a car dealership, aside from being a pure joy dealing with, never distorts the truth. But hey, thanks for the opportunity to change jobs. However, I'm not a huge fan of New Jersey, or car dealers for that matter, so I doubt I would move. I will just need to satisfy myself with my current lot in life by gazing at my canceled $22,000+ check, knowing the IRS never got wind of it (returning for a moment to your original discussion of what the federal government requires to be reported to the IRS and what doesn't).

As alway's, sharing is such fun!