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1 Attachment(s)
Here is a picture of my Alignment report. Can anyone translate this for me? Does anything look odd? Thank you.
Attachment 87025 |
Originally Posted by beamerjld
(Post 1289752)
Here is a picture of my Alignment report. Can anyone translate this for me? Does anything look odd? Thank you.
https://i.imgur.com/YOZgBiA.jpg |
Thanks Jim
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Not to revive an old thread but since first purchasing my 2015 Fit EX I noticed it pulled to the right slightly. I decided to have the alignment inspected at the dealership. They told me it was due to low tire pressure and said the alignment was good now. But the problem still persisted. I took it in again and this time they actually checked the alignment. I found out that I am also a part of the club with a bad rear axle. They are replacing it under warranty so hopefully I should see my car again by the end of the week.
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Originally Posted by Jim Grames
(Post 1282127)
dealer results BEFORE 1st alignment
front left front right actual before spec range actual before spec range toe .01 -.11 -.12-.12 .01 -.11 -.12-.12 rear left rear right actual before spec range actual before spec range toe .23 .23 .00-.24 .29 .28 .00-.24 2nd alignment front left front right actual before spec range actual before spec range toe .00 .02 -.12-+.12 .02 -.01 -.12-+.12 rear left rear right actual before spec range actual before spec range toe .23 .24 .00-+.24 .24 .28 -.00-+.24 3rd align from independent shop front left front right actual before actual before toe .00 .01 .00 .07 rear left rear right actual before actual before toe .25 .25 .31 .31 Not sure why shops have different results? But dealer made it get with in spec so they will not replace anything! I will need to get proof from another dealer before I can continue??? dam.... first, different machines, even the same brand, will get ifferent values for toe, camber, and caster. so stick with one. the dealer claiming toadjust te carriage may have merely reset the axle so the tires were equaly the same on both sides. it can be done but its hard work. if the hub is welded to the axle backplate thats the only adjustment possible tho I cannot imagine why they would weld it. don't like welding dissimilar metals. toe is adjustable on the front wheels. as long as toe is close to equalk on the rear wheels, there's no practical reason to be concerned. it won't make any difference in driving. |
My rear alignment is really screwed up!!!
I got new tires at 41k miles and lowering springs at the same time/shop. They did an alignment after installation. The front toe is perfect after adjustments, but the rear is wayyyyyyy out of spec! .42 left, .48 right! Nearly double the out of spec toe!!! How could this ever pass inspection leaving the plant in Mexico???? Unbelievable!!! I have 51k miles on the car now. Unusual tire wear on the right rear tire, the left looks basically normal. |
Originally Posted by Honda4Life15
(Post 1343788)
My rear alignment is really screwed up!!!
I got new tires at 41k miles and lowering springs at the same time/shop. They did an alignment after installation. The front toe is perfect after adjustments, but the rear is wayyyyyyy out of spec! .42 left, .48 right! Nearly double the out of spec toe!!! How could this ever pass inspection leaving the plant in Mexico???? Unbelievable!!! I have 51k miles on the car now. Unusual tire wear on the right rear tire, the left looks basically normal. |
How can you shim the hubs? They are welded.
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Originally Posted by Honda4Life15
(Post 1343839)
How can you shim the hubs? They are welded.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fit...f6265eb6e3.jpg rear axle assembly 01 https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fit...7d0e3f9279.jpg rear axle assembly 02 |
The hub can be removed from the torsion beam by removing 4 14mm bolts. Shims can be placed between the hub and beam to alter the alignment.
Keep in mind, altering the toe changes the handling characteristics. There's a lot deflection inherent, like under hard braking. This causes the wheels to toe out, so if they're at 0 toe they'll go positive which can cause the car to wander. Also, toe-in induces understeer, which for most people is easier to manage than oversteer. Reducing the toe in will make the car more likely to spin when off throttle turning and braking, especially in wet or icy conditions. The torsion beam has compliance bushings that deflect about 3/8" in any direction, both sides compounded double that amount. This allows the rear wheels to effectively turn into a skid inducing understeer as well. It also has a self-aligning effect. These bushings can skew alignment numbers too depending on howthe tech pulls the car on the table. They can compress, cocking the rear axle. This isn't an issue specific to Honda. Many torsion beam cars have "excessive toe-in" and on the rear wheels on a fwd car it's not as significant to tire wear as its being made out to be in this thread. Remember, if you alter the toe, it effects more than tire wear. Don't be surprised if it effects the handling as well. I removed my hubs last week to install longer studs: http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/...psxojtyodn.jpg |
Only the right rear tire has an abnormal wear pattern, a ridge on one of the inside tread sections. The left rear appears to be even wear across the whole surface. It may be due to road crown, 80% of my driving is back roads per week. I drive 800-1000 miles per week due to my sales territory.
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Thanks guys for the helpful information on this thread. Here's my rear alignment story so far.
The dealer asked me if I wanted a free alignment check, that they'd charge me only if they had to do a re-alignment, to which I gladly accept. Front was OK, rear toe was out of spec (0.27 & 0.25, total = 0.52), they tell me that they aligned it and it's now 0.21 & 0.21, total = 0.42). I paid, then found out the fit had a solid rear axle by reading this thread... I confronted them the next day and asked them how they managed to adjust the toe without bending anything or shimming. The said they loosened the axle and re-tightened it and that fixed it. If that's the case, the entire axle should shift, and total toe would remain the same ?? I then pulled out my 2007 fit shop manual (loved the 1st gen do much I got the 3rd gen) since there's none for the 2015. There's no procedure for adjusting camber or toe for the rear wheels, only the front. So I asked them to show me the 2015 rear alignment procedure since I'm unable to access it, to which they couldn't at that moment. I'm meeting with the service manager in a few days get this thing sorted out. I might be missing something, but I just don't see how the toe can be adjusted without shimming or bending the axle. I'll gladly pay for something that needs to be done, but I refuse to pay for unwaranted work. Thanks again to everyone on this forum, there's so much helpful people here. I'll let you guys know how this thing works out at the end of the week. Glenn. |
Your alignment is basically spec. The spec is .24 on each side, your's was .2 and .1, that's basically nothing. Mine is .42 and .48, that's .18 and .24 out of alignment!!! That's seriously out of alignment!!!
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There is a little slop in the bolt holes, that will allow them to shift the hum around on the end of the beam, sometimes rotating the hub will bring in a alignment if its minor, the deflection is not always in the axle beam it can be in the stub/axle hub assembly..
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The axle cannot be adjusted in its stock condition.
Theoretically, things might shift a bit if parts are reversed. If the hub-axle attach is symmetrical it might be flipped top-for-bottom and the hubs can also be swapped left-for-right. Some combination of positions might be a bit better than another. The mechanic could also play a bit with bolt torques, but this would not be satisfactory from a safety standpoint. These are hit-and-miss methods that rely on the parts not being square This is a very time-consuming procedure with no guaranteed outcome. A shade-tree mechanic with unlimited time might do it, but I doubt that a dealer mechanic would. More likely, they just put it back on the alignment rack again and got slightly different results. There _is_ a way to adjust camber and toe on the rear axle, by using tapered shims between the hubs and the axle. This isn't an official Honda method, though. Honda's fix is to replace the entire rear axle. |
Thanks for the info, GeorgeL. I completely agree with you that this is a result of poor quality control manufacturing. The particular thing I am wondering is if my toe was the same before and after lowering springs that I installed. I didn't think toe would change with lowering a twist beam axle.
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If the axle beam has some built in camber, and you rotate the axle slightly, your also affecting toe, For example, this is common on trailer axles which usually come with quite a bit of camber in them, when your welding the spring perches on you first have to bolt it together then carefully check the toe-in and adjust to zero or just a tic of toe in by rotating the axle, then you weld it.
To me the defect is building a freeking rear axle assembly with no adjustment... Drives me crazy.. But its cheaper for them.. |
Yeah... It's unfortunate, the lack of thought behind this design. Do they expect to not fix the axles that weren't welded square? I guess they expect customers to not find out their alignment is way out of whack...
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The average driver probably wouldn't notice I see people driving the darndest crap on my commute...
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Originally Posted by Honda4Life15
(Post 1344317)
...I didn't think toe would change with lowering a twist beam axle.
Originally Posted by dwtaylorpdx
(Post 1344432)
...To me the defect is building a freeking rear axle assembly with no adjustment... Drives me crazy.. But its cheaper for them..
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