2015 alignment issues
 

This doesn't look good. First I had dealer do alignment on my new EX with 200 miles. And so it has an issue with r/r toe that dealer says has no adjustment to fix! So I asked them to shim it. They said they can't cause honda doesn't have shim kits for it nor will they install aftermarket shim kits. So I insist they fix it and I called corporate honda(8009991009) to ask what can be done! So I took it back for a second alignment and they said they "fixed it"? Hum? I asked how did you fix it if its not adjustable??? Dealer says "we loosened the carriage" Hum? So then I get a call back from corporate. We had a long conversation about it not being adjustable but they adjusted it so now all they say is "the dealer got it with in spec" Hum? So I said I want another alignment to verify the results! Corporate says "take it to another dealer" So I have an appointment tomorrow. Also not trusting the dealer I took it another non-dealer alignment shop and they found both rear tires to be jacked! Is anyone else having alignment issues? I hope everyone will take there 15 fit's in and get there alignments checked cause I suspect this is not only going on with mine. I am trying to post my alignment results but can't find a way to do it? help on both issues!

The rear axle is welded solid on the GK 3rd gen. Unlike the previous gens which were bolted hubs capable of being shimmed.

No issues with alignment for me ::knock on wood:: , but if your rear wheel geometry is too far out of spec and nothing is damaged or bent from a road event, the entire rear axle needs to be replaced. Sorry :-(

dealer results BEFORE 1st alignment
front left front right
actual before spec range actual before spec range
toe .01 -.11 -.12-.12 .01 -.11 -.12-.12

rear left rear right
actual before spec range actual before spec range
toe .23 .23 .00-.24 .29 .28 .00-.24

2nd alignment

front left front right
actual before spec range actual before spec range
toe .00 .02 -.12-+.12 .02 -.01 -.12-+.12

rear left rear right
actual before spec range actual before spec range
toe .23 .24 .00-+.24 .24 .28 -.00-+.24

3rd align from independent shop

front left front right
actual before actual before
toe .00 .01 .00 .07

rear left rear right
actual before actual before
toe .25 .25 .31 .31

Not sure why shops have different results? But dealer made it get with in spec so they will not replace anything! I will need to get proof from another dealer before I can continue??? dam....

The results are slightly different because of the "fingers" that attach to the wheel rims that reflect the laser beam back to the alignment machine. They are not always an exact fit for every vehicle. Your rear wheel specs look okay, though they could be better. The most any shop or dealer can do is "reference" the rear wheels and point the front wheels close to 0.00 degrees straight ahead. Camber for the front tires could be adjusted ever so slightly with stock equipment.


As mentioned the rear wheels are fixed, no adjustment is possible without replacing the axle. Shimming is not possible with the 3rd gen. Judging by your alignment specs with normal tire rotation the total tire life should only be impacted about 5-10% less then if you had 0.00 degrees toe on all 4 tires.


If the FIT was 4 wheel drive vehicle then all the wheels would have toe/camber adjustments by virtue that all are drive wheels.


Now if your steering wheel is crooked, then the alignment shop didn't do the alignment right. Should be straight and the car should track straight.


It is not a hydraulic steering system on the FIT. It is an electrically assisted rack and pinion system. Quite responsive and to my liking. Non directional tire tread pattern is standard with the Bridgestone/Firestone tires it comes stock with. I made the mistake of putting directional tread tires on my 2008. While they were great tires, directional tread means you feel every little groove in the road and it makes the turning sensitivity even more sensitive.

Spec limit is .24. If rear toe is not adjustable then how did dealer get it to pass? the other alignment shop says both rear sides are out of spec. The Honda dealer said only rear right was out of spec and adjusted it how??? I'm going to another Honda dealer tomorrow!

The car drives fine. Steering wheel is straight.

Thanks for the heads up Bass... I'm glad I saw this and will do some investigating before I go the wheels/tires route. I already find the Fit steering EXTREMELY light, and certainly don't want to make it more sensitive.
Being electrically assisted I've been wishing for a knob that would turn down the assistance!

Good luck on that. It is controlled by the ECM. Unlike the Sport shift mode on the CVT's there is no adjustment on the steering sensitivity.


Jim, I call shenanigans that a honda dealer was able to "fix" the rear without actually replacing the rear axle. the fact is you have face is that all of the rear axles are off from 0.00 degrees, thats why they have a tolerance. if it is outside this tolerance then most definitely have it checked. To be honest you will not have Honda replace the axle, the chances of you getting a replacement axle at exactly 0.00 degrees is impossible. If the steering wheel is straight and it tracks fine, leave the issue and move on. yeah you may have a SLIGHT tire wear issue, but your specs don't seem that far out of whack. Unless you change the entire rear suspension configuration you wont get the adjustment ability you seek.

It seems that if the rear axle is welded on, what you have is what you get. Even if you replaced the rear axle, who is to say it will be any better? Tire rotation seems to be the only defense against incorrect wear (at least rotating will slow down the rear wear). I just wonder what made Honda switch to the welded rear axle anyway? I don't see any advantage to it. But then again, I am no expert, so I will defer to those who know much more than I do.

Likely to cut costs, or to simplify assembly. That's the nature of a MacPherson strut system. Weld on one part at the end of the axle vs welding on a flange and then bolt on a hub. One part instead of two. If the geometry is predetermined and assembled correctly, then there is no need for bolt on hubs.

this is a typical engineer vs the technician argument. The engineer assumes 100% compliance to the design during assembly while a technician is more cynical and expects to have some sort of flexibility in the design for error

I wonder if the welding of the rear axle is done automatically by a robot type machine. It seems if the car is properly aligned/positioned, the robot weld should within very close tolerances. Just a different thought here. Bill22335

The local alignment shop shows rear right is .31. the max spec limit is .24. Rear left is .25. I just hope the other honda dealer tomorrow has similar results. There is no way I can lets this go and to say it is what it is and thats what your stuck with. Thats like saying if you engine is low on power but still runs than thats what you get.

This is why I want EVERYONE with a 2015 fit to GO and get yours checked! If there are a lot of fit's with the issue then honda will fix it but not until everyone gets their alignment checked to find out! So PLEASE tell everyone you know to GET it checked!!!

Best of luck at the alignment shop Jim. let us know the outcome.

i am confused. what is the problem then?

Tires will wear out slightly quicker.

I am curious, what was the issue @ 200 miles on the car, that prompted you to take the car in for an alignment?

yes, what is the original issue?

the numbers you posted, are they in degrees or inches?

i have done hundreds of alignments, even doing them on the fly at the track to adjust for changing conditions. you have to have some big toe numbers to ruin tires quickly.

When anyone puts new tires on their car what is the one thing you do to their car with new tires? GET IT ALIGNED! Right? Honda says the spec toe wear limit is .24. My rear right was .29 from honda dealer and .31 from local shop. Is this something honda should fix from the factory under warranty? YES! Just cause a car drives straight does not mean the alignment is ok! From the factory there is no alignment. From the dealer there is no alignment! So how does anyone know if it is with in spec??? Just because it is new is NOT a reason or an excuse to not do an alignment. People will do an alignment when they get new tires but not on a new car??? Am I making a valid point here or am I all hot air? HA....

Well after the 4th alignment I'm not sure were to go? I guess doing an alignment is very subjective! Specs are just that. Specs. Anyone can do an alignment and tell you what the results are. The specs come from the manufacturer to give what they will accept as the allowable wear limits. The second honda dealer had completely different results from the first 3 alignments! ha, go figure. O well I guess I can call corporate back and try to plead my case.

I didn't post any numbers, you'd have to ask the OP. I think the issue at hand is that the numbers were out of spec and yet the dealer says they somehow got them in spec which isn't possible as you can't adjust the rear wheels on the GK.

CORRECT Lane03! Thank you for reading!

Numbers are in inches.

I would only get an alignment when changing tires (from old to new), if I noticed a destructive wear pattern. Chances are I would notice that wear pattern during regular tire rotation. It has never crossed my mind to have an alignment done on a new car. The exception would be if the car did not track correctly, but otherwise no.

That leads me back to the original question, what prompted you (with 200 miles on your car), to think the car needed an alignment?

To fix the wear problems before they happen. Just a preventative check before a problem occurs. And well I guess it was a good thing I did have it checked. But Honda is doing there best to cover it up. This is why I am asking 15 fit owners to get it checked BEFORE the warranty runs out! If we all get it checked and find a lot of them out of alignment spec then honda will do something about it. But if you wait till 50k miles to get tires and alignment and find the problem then, then there is nothing you can do.

You took a new car in with less than 200 miles to have alignment done for possible preventive measures? Wow.

Really on such a light weight car are the rears really going to wear out that much faster?

I dunno but seems to me you have wasted more time and money chasing this alignment problem than what excessive tire wear will cost over the lifetime of the car.

Just my two cents.

So why do manufactures bother with a warranty? I guess their not needed then?

The car has new tires so I did an alignment.

The first 2 alignments from honda dealer were free because alignment was "NOT IN SPEC"!

I could understand your early alignment if you had an incident, such as hitting a large pothole, or running over a curb, but as just preventive maintenance, on a brand new car, it is rather unusual.

I agree. Thought never crossed my mind to do an alignment unless the car was not tracking right. You are fighting an uphill battle for honda corp to do anything about this. Its a MacPherson strut system, its designed to cut corners in flexibility but also be reliable.

But it shouldn't be unusual. It should be the norm. Don't be so naive everyone! What? Because it's new it must be ok? Because honda made it it must be ok? The dealers and honda are in the market to make money. With every new car should be the alignment printout. And it looks like my alignment request was justified! So the question still stands! My alignment was not in spec and the rear is not adjustable but somehow the dealer adjusted it to within spec??? Doesn't this seem odd to anyone??? This is why I am asking everyone to get there 2015 fit's alignment checked! I suspect it is a class issue but until enough people get there's checked nothing will be done. After the warranty then the cost will be on you! But o well I guess no one really gives 2 sh!ts. But had I made them do the alignment before I bought it and know it is not adjustable I would of NEVER bought it!!!

Jim, I appreciate that you are having an issue. I do dot understand how you knew you had an issue or why you decided you needed to have tour Fit looked at but I do not think it is reasonable to have everyone with a 2015 Fit take it in for testing because you had a problem.

I think the dealer is going to look at me like I am nuts if I relay this story and I do not blame them :confused:

I honestly really didn't think or suspect there would be a thing wrong with the alignment but just being a mechanic for me it is worth the peace of mind knowing the alignment is correct before waiting 20, 30 or 40k miles later and it sounds like a jeep with nobby tires going down the highway and your warranty has expired by then.

So tell me how do class problems get known? Like the takata air bag, etc.... so we have to wait till someone dies? o ok i see now....

The dealer thought I was nuts too! But then he ended up eating his words when he came back to tell me "HOUSTON! WE HAVE A PROBLEM!"

The rear is not macpherson strut. The rear is solid axle. That's like an ol'school pick up truck! That is the cheapest way you can get to do a rear end!

My bad, yes front end is macpherson. Rear is solid axle. And yes it its a sub 20k vehicle, wouldnt expect a 3 or 4 link independent suspension, though having on this vehicle would make it super sweet!

You are a mechanic huh? That explains the need to get the alignment. You are much more proactive than most drivers. Most would not have questioned if the alignment was off if the car drove straight.

I would never worry about what the dealer thinks! It is YOUR car and YOUR responsibility to maintain! Just do what I did and ask them did the factory or the dealer do an alignment? I will bet money they will give the deer in the headlights look! The answer is NO! So please go get you alignment done!

THANK YOU!

Not so. An "old-school pickup truck" (typically) has a live rear axle on a leaf spring suspension. There are multiple millions of vehicles out there with twist-beam, coil suspensions holding up the back end of the vehicle – it's a well-proven design and that's what our Fits have. It's definitely a less-expensive solution as compared to an IRS, but the Fit (with its segment-leading low price) is also not marketed as a high-end sports car.

As long as the beam and wheel assemblies were manufactured correctly, and the mount points on the vehicle's unit body have not moved (crash damage) or were not manufactured correctly, and the rubber mount bushings have not worn out, there should be no need for alignment, which is why means for same are not provided.

My 2000 New Beetle TDI had a twist beam rear suspension, and it held perfect alignment for nearly 200,000 miles until the mount-point bushings wore out. A refresh of same put everything back to rights without further adjustment needed (and this on a 12+ year-old car).

That said, you obviously had a problem, which would tend to point to a misalignment when either the unit body was welded up, or when the beam was welded (at least, those would be my first guesses). Either could also have been damaged during transport, as I would expect the car to have been tightly lashed down (which could have bent something).

Your advice to have an alignment done is probably wise, and even more so if multiple folks discover the same issue (which would point to an ongoing manufacturing issue).

es

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7469/...be8864e5_h.jpg1117141054 by gramfam123, on Flickr
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8634/...65ce7c55_h.jpg1212141136 by gramfam123, on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7488/...e701505d_o.jpg1212141136a by gramfam123, on Flickr

It's smart to get an independent shop to check the alignment. Alignment numbers are subject to fudging and dealerships are very likely to fudge them in the direction of being within spec to avoid having to do warranty work.

Of course, the dealer will still likely say that there isn't a problem but it's more difficult for them to do so in the face of evidence from an impartial source.

That's what the 3rd image is. It is from a local independent shop.

curious to see how you get this resolved....

I've had my fit for 124k miles, and it's rear left wheel has developed a noticed tip in at the top and Firestone says it can't be adjusted...I've heard of people shimming their hubs but need to confirm if this can be done for the GE.

I was conscious if this dip happening and tried to settle more weight in the right side of the car but guess it is inevitable....

at least it is less noticeable when the car is lowered a few inches

I'll bet that Honda's ultimate response will be to change their acceptable specification for rear toe to 0.0-0.4 degrees.

Back in the Ford twin-I-Beam era, some shops actually came up with ways of carefully and accurately bending the beams to correct alignment. I suppose that the same could be done for the Honda trailing beam rear suspension.

GD and GE body styles are able to have the rear hubs shimmed. The GK is not as the axle is solid welded. I've had all 3 gens and confirm this to be true. My GD was the only car that had rear alignment issues that I shimmed to fix it. The GE was perfectly fine no issues. GK has less than 5k on it now. After the first tire rotation I'll report back. Visual inspection shows no adverse wear patterns.

So, are the GK's rear hubs the old skool spindle and separate bearings or does a rear bearing failure require replacement of the entire axle?